Simple Question: Did we (USA) win Iraq War?

[CurveLight]

That's it? That's your "argument"?

No, that was an observation.

Yeah. Not a clever one either.

Did you know that the steel columns on the upper floors of the WTC were not fireproofed?

Who said it was clever? It would be impossible for something so obvious to be confused as clever?

 

[CurveLight]

I love it when I get in the last word, and a right wing troll cuts and runs. The conservatives of today seem to be pretty damn uneducated; hate and fear propaganda is as effective today as in past centuries, and appeals to greed too.
I hesitate to call today's conservative stupid, yet, when reading their posts, what's a thinking, educated person to do?

I was always under the impression thinkers and the educated rarely make the mistake of extrapolating a negative sample onto large groups. But since I am a Conservative I may not be bright enough to understand how the above indictment has merit. Can someone please dumb it down for me a bit so there is a chance of comprehension?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I love it when I get in the last word, and a right wing troll cuts and runs. The conservatives of today seem to be pretty damn uneducated; hate and fear propaganda is as effective today as in past centuries, and appeals to greed too.
I hesitate to call today's conservative stupid, yet, when reading their posts, what's a thinking, educated person to do?

You labor under the delusion that I have nothing better to do with my remaining time on Earth than to sit here at USMB hitting F5 ever second in hopes that you responded to me.

The Topic remain the same was it was in the OP: Did we win in Iraq

Asked and answered; we LOST. It's really too bad you can't man-up and admit the foreign policy of Bush&Co was an abject failure, as was his econmic policy, domestic policy and stewardship of this great nation.
The jury is still out on how successful President Obama will be in reparing our nation of the damaage inflicted by Bush and the neoconservative oligarchy which held power for most of the first decade of this new century.
President Obama has a much tougher problem than did his predesessor, our nation came together after 9-11 and President Bush had only one enemy to defeat - the terrorist network. Obama must fight the terrorist too, only on two fronts - abroad and here at home. For without queston the tactics of war on Obama by the far right, their use of hate and fear, is an effort to bring down our legitimate government.
You believe you're a patriot, and that is only one of your delusions .

 

[rdean]

That's it? That's your "argument"?

No, that was an observation.

Yeah. Not a clever one either.

Did you know that the steel columns on the upper floors of the WTC were not fireproofed?

How do you fire proof "steel"?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I love it when I get in the last word, and a right wing troll cuts and runs. The conservatives of today seem to be pretty damn uneducated; hate and fear propaganda is as effective today as in past centuries, and appeals to greed too.
I hesitate to call today's conservative stupid, yet, when reading their posts, what's a thinking, educated person to do?

I was always under the impression thinkers and the educated rarely make take of extrapolating a negative sample onto large groups. But since I am a Conservative I may not be bright enough to understand how the above indictment has merit. Can someone please dumb it down for me a bit so there is a chance of comprehension?

LOL, of course. While Frank is not the archetype of the neoclassic "Conservative Chic" (CC) his posts are reflective of their 'thinking' (single quotes should be noted for clarity). You see the posts of the conservatives of today are not thoughts, they are limited to narrowly defined parameters provided to them in talking points. They are purveyors of propaganda (and if Frank earned only commissions he would be broke) and their conservative beliefs are not based on study or critical thinking, but on trying to be included. Hence, the CC, are not much different at all from the Radical Chic (RC) which grew out of the Summer of Love in San Francisco. Of course the RC were mostly kids and grew up, the CC of today, likely and older group, ought to know better.
So my single sample provides a basis for my hypothesis. I assume by your question you assumed I was attacking all conservatives. I was not. Only the stupid ones.

 

[The Rabbi]

I love it when I get in the last word, and a right wing troll cuts and runs. The conservatives of today seem to be pretty damn uneducated; hate and fear propaganda is as effective today as in past centuries, and appeals to greed too.
I hesitate to call today's conservative stupid, yet, when reading their posts, what's a thinking, educated person to do?

You labor under the delusion that I have nothing better to do with my remaining time on Earth than to sit here at USMB hitting F5 ever second in hopes that you responded to me.

The Topic remain the same was it was in the OP: Did we win in Iraq

Asked and answered; we LOST. It's really too bad you can't man-up and admit the foreign policy of Bush&Co was an abject failure, as was his econmic policy, domestic policy and stewardship of this great nation.
The jury is still out on how successful President Obama will be in reparing our nation of the damaage inflicted by Bush and the neoconservative oligarchy which held power for most of the first decade of this new century.
President Obama has a much tougher problem than did his predesessor, our nation came together after 9-11 and President Bush had only one enemy to defeat - the terrorist network. Obama must fight the terrorist too, only on two fronts - abroad and here at home. For without queston the tactics of war on Obama by the far right, their use of hate and fear, is an effort to bring down our legitimate government.
You believe you're a patriot, and that is only one of your delusions .

Wow. Lost, eh?
If that was losing I want more of it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You labor under the delusion that I have nothing better to do with my remaining time on Earth than to sit here at USMB hitting F5 ever second in hopes that you responded to me.

The Topic remain the same was it was in the OP: Did we win in Iraq

Asked and answered; we LOST. It's really too bad you can't man-up and admit the foreign policy of Bush&Co was an abject failure, as was his econmic policy, domestic policy and stewardship of this great nation.
The jury is still out on how successful President Obama will be in reparing our nation of the damaage inflicted by Bush and the neoconservative oligarchy which held power for most of the first decade of this new century.
President Obama has a much tougher problem than did his predesessor, our nation came together after 9-11 and President Bush had only one enemy to defeat - the terrorist network. Obama must fight the terrorist too, only on two fronts - abroad and here at home. For without queston the tactics of war on Obama by the far right, their use of hate and fear, is an effort to bring down our legitimate government.
You believe you're a patriot, and that is only one of your delusions .

Wow. Lost, eh?
If that was losing I want more of it.

So you want another 5,000 American service men and women to die, thousands more to carry their injuries for life and to borrow $10 billion a month from China?
Wow.

 

[The Rabbi]

Asked and answered; we LOST. It's really too bad you can't man-up and admit the foreign policy of Bush&Co was an abject failure, as was his econmic policy, domestic policy and stewardship of this great nation.
The jury is still out on how successful President Obama will be in reparing our nation of the damaage inflicted by Bush and the neoconservative oligarchy which held power for most of the first decade of this new century.
President Obama has a much tougher problem than did his predesessor, our nation came together after 9-11 and President Bush had only one enemy to defeat - the terrorist network. Obama must fight the terrorist too, only on two fronts - abroad and here at home. For without queston the tactics of war on Obama by the far right, their use of hate and fear, is an effort to bring down our legitimate government.
You believe you're a patriot, and that is only one of your delusions .

Wow. Lost, eh?
If that was losing I want more of it.

So you want another 5,000 American service men and women to die, thousands more to carry their injuries for life and to borrow $10 billion a month from China?
Wow.

If it means defeating our enemies, saving thousands of American lives in the process, and making America the pre-eiminent power then hell yeah bring it on.
5k dead? More people than that die in traffic accidents in 3 months. How many were killed in one morning on 9/11?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wow. Lost, eh?
If that was losing I want more of it.

So you want another 5,000 American service men and women to die, thousands more to carry their injuries for life and to borrow $10 billion a month from China?
Wow.

If it means defeating our enemies, saving thousands of American lives in the process, and making America the pre-eiminent power then hell yeah bring it on.
5k dead? More people than that die in traffic accidents in 3 months. How many were killed in one morning on 9/11?

Wow. You really are one sick puppy.

 

[Sunni Man]

If it means defeating our enemies, saving thousands of American lives in the process, and making America the pre-eiminent power then hell yeah bring it on.
5k dead? More people than that die in traffic accidents in 3 months. How many were killed in one morning on 9/11?

Rabbi please explain how invading Iraq has saved even ONE american life???

And obviously you have never served or you wouldn't make idiotic comparisons between traffic deaths and combat deaths.

 

[HUGGY]

No, that was an observation.

Yeah. Not a clever one either.

Did you know that the steel columns on the upper floors of the WTC were not fireproofed?

How do you fire proof "steel"?

Insulate it from heat with flame retardent.

INTUMESCENT FIRE RETARDANT COATING FOR STRUCTURAL STEEL FIRE PRODUCTION.

 

[CurveLight]

No, that was an observation.

Yeah. Not a clever one either.

Did you know that the steel columns on the upper floors of the WTC were not fireproofed?

How do you fire proof "steel"?

I don't even know why he brought that up.

 

[foggedinn]

Did somebody surrender?

Not sure what else you'd call this:

An execution.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you want another 5,000 American service men and women to die, thousands more to carry their injuries for life and to borrow $10 billion a month from China?
Wow.

If it means defeating our enemies, saving thousands of American lives in the process, and making America the pre-eiminent power then hell yeah bring it on.
5k dead? More people than that die in traffic accidents in 3 months. How many were killed in one morning on 9/11?

Wow. You really are one sick puppy.

And you are one deluded asshole.
A good thing you weren't around for WW2 when 50k plus Americans were killed. I could just see your posts: Germany never attacked us. The war is weakening us. FDR lied to get us into war. Whine whine whine.

 

[The Rabbi]

Did somebody surrender?

Not sure what else you'd call this:

An execution.

Do they execute heads of state?

 

[CurveLight]

If it means defeating our enemies, saving thousands of American lives in the process, and making America the pre-eiminent power then hell yeah bring it on.
5k dead? More people than that die in traffic accidents in 3 months. How many were killed in one morning on 9/11?

Wow. You really are one sick puppy.

And you are one deluded asshole.
A good thing you weren't around for WW2 when 50k plus Americans were killed. I could just see your posts: Germany never attacked us. The war is weakening us. FDR lied to get us into war. Whine whine whine.

When did Germany attack us? Do you believe Pearl was a total surprise?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In answer to the question posed by the thread, WE LOST. We lost lives and treasure, prestige, allies and influence. We lost over 200 years of tradition when we invaded and occupied a nation which did not attack us, and, if the only measure of winning is to conquer the enemy, we failed.
Of course the Iraq Army and elite R. Guard was defeated in a few weeks, but what followed was unexpected, at least by the power elite who decided war on Iraq was necessary. A guerilla war that has lasted longer than WW II.
Mission Accomplished? Only fools and liars say so.

You're saying that we lost the war because we lost men and spent money?

That's it? Because the word "lost" appears in 2 places you're chalking up Iraq for the Insurgents? And you're taking victory laps for this stupid nonsensical idea?

Good Grief!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yeah. Not a clever one either.

Did you know that the steel columns on the upper floors of the WTC were not fireproofed?

How do you fire proof "steel"?

I don't even know why he brought that up.

Because some other fool said my knowledge comes from msm sound bites

Oh wait, it was not some other fool, it was you.

 

[germanguy]

Hello !

I have the following questions:

If you want to decide, if the war was won, by what "winning" is defined.

On the Pro Side:

Saddam out od office, trialed and hanged
Iraqi army beaten in the field
Iraq mainly under control of US troops
Political course of government heaviliy influenced by US
Marginal losses (compared to troops in the field)

Technically I would call this winning.

On the Contra side:

US now rather unpopular in the region (to put it mildly)
Alienated some important allies
Went to war by bending facts, i.e. WMD (see above)
Country split about the war
approx 500.000 Iraqis dead, same number fled
Oil industriy in Iraq still not working as it should
Very high deficit, because of costs of war
No incoming turnover in means of oil, regional stability
Taking the counterpart of Iran from the field, which is now the region´s biggest power and no body there to balance this.

Technically won, strategically rather doubtful win and economically rather a loss.
Also, considered the loss of reputation for the US abroad, the misuse of patriotism and the upbringing of more than very doubtful facts to justify the invasion of Iraq, I see this as a total loss.


I can not see, that anything was gained by it, only Saddam out of office. But that he is a brutal massmurder was common knowledge since he came to power (in the 1970s?) Nobody cared then.

Forgotten anything ?

Regrds
The germanguy
______________________________

Cmdr. Tomalak: "Consider the men and woman you lead into a lost cause, Captain"
Cpt. Picard: "If the cause is just and honorable, they are prepared to give their lives..."
Star Trek TNG - The Defector

 

[CurveLight]

In answer to the question posed by the thread, WE LOST. We lost lives and treasure, prestige, allies and influence. We lost over 200 years of tradition when we invaded and occupied a nation which did not attack us, and, if the only measure of winning is to conquer the enemy, we failed.
Of course the Iraq Army and elite R. Guard was defeated in a few weeks, but what followed was unexpected, at least by the power elite who decided war on Iraq was necessary. A guerilla war that has lasted longer than WW II.
Mission Accomplished? Only fools and liars say so.

You're saying that we lost the war because we lost men and spent money?

That's it? Because the word "lost" appears in 2 places you're chalking up Iraq for the Insurgents? And you're taking victory laps for this stupid nonsensical idea?

Good Grief!

Stop repeating false information. Since the invasion there have never been insurgents in iraq. Learn what the term means instead of swallowing msm propaganda.