Show Me the Country Where The MAGA/Conservative Government Works. I Dare You.

[Correll]

More nonsense. There are lots of unsuccessful countries that are homogenous white. That isn’t what makes a successful nation. Anyone who isn’t racist can see that. Good government and resources make a successful nation.

Nothing in your post addressed his point. YOu did call him racist.

I guess, in your mind, that means something....

 

[Polishprince]

Liberal democracies have dozens of successful examples. But I am interested in what nations implement the right wing dream of government that Trump's policies desire to implement. Where in the world can we look for successful implementation of right wing principles of government? Surely someone must have examples of these policies working.

Just for thought starters I pulled the rankings of key metrics of success for countries. Surprisingly they are replete with liberal democracies with high taxes, strong welfare states, and high social trust..

Please keep the flame wars to a minimum. Just looking for a discussion on where the right wing is killing it in success world wide.

Happiest Countries in the World: Switzerland, Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Finland
Healthiest Countries in the World: Spain, Italy, Iceland, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, Norway
Richest Countries in the World: Ireland, Norway, Switzerland, US, some small countries
Most Educated Countries in the World: Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Canada
Most Free Countries in the World: Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark, Ireland, Finland, Australia, Sweden, Iceland.
Most Opportunity Countries in the World: Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany

By “right-wing dream” I assume we mean:

• Low taxes / small welfare state
• Strong nationalism
• Strict immigration control
• Weak labor protections
• Strong executive power
• Minimal regulation
• Market fundamentalism
• Traditionalist social policy

GO!

Actually, the richest country in the world is Qatar, not Ireland at all. In fact, Ireland is pretty much struggling with the potato famine, a lot of the native Irish are migrating to other nations.

 

[Hafar1014]

Nothing in your post addressed his point. YOu did call him racist.

I guess, in your mind, that means something....

The white European nations have been historically superior to the others.

 

[citygator]

I never said Sweden wasn't successful, but it's not the liberal country you claim it was, in fact it's an example of another right wing country that is very successful and I think we should really consider adopting their immigration and SS policies,

Don't you?

Again. You pick some one off policy. Sweden isn’t a right-wing country, and never has been. It’s one of the clearest examples of a left-leaning social democracy in the world. Tightening immigration rules in the past few years doesn’t change the underlying model, which is still built on:

• universal healthcare
• free/affordable university
• heavily subsidized childcare
• strong unions
• very high taxes on income and consumption
• one of the world’s strongest welfare states
• low inequality
• extensive worker protections
• a mandatory national pension system

Those are not remotely right-wing policies.

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

None of that is right-wing.

Sweden succeeds because it’s a high-tax, high-service, left-leaning social democracy with very strong institutions, not because of any right-wing governance model.

If Sweden were actually “right-wing,” it wouldn’t score near the top of the world in happiness, health, safety, education, equality, social mobility, and quality of life.

 

[Polishprince]

Again. You pick some one off policy. Sweden isn’t a right-wing country, and never has been. It’s one of the clearest examples of a left-leaning social democracy in the world. Tightening immigration rules in the past few years doesn’t change the underlying model, which is still built on:

• universal healthcare
• free/affordable university
• heavily subsidized childcare
• strong unions
• very high taxes on income and consumption
• one of the world’s strongest welfare states
• low inequality
• extensive worker protections
• a mandatory national pension system

Those are not remotely right-wing policies.

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

None of that is right-wing.

Sweden succeeds because it’s a high-tax, high-service, left-leaning social democracy with very strong institutions, not because of any right-wing governance model.

If Sweden were actually “right-wing,” it wouldn’t score near the top of the world in happiness, health, safety, education, equality, social mobility, and quality of life.

Sweden isn't as leftist as you presume , CG. Just as a point of trivia, they have never put a transwoman on their world famous Bikini Team.

 

[Dorian Mode]

This OP is disingenuous because it assumes that MAGA and republicans all want something ultra conservative, when that is patently false. Today's right are about as conservative as the old school moderate democrats. There was a reason many typical republicans voted for Obama in 2008. We just do not like what the new democraps have become, probably starting from Obama's second term. To be clear, the right doesn't want ultra conservatism, they just want a government that works behind the scenes and doesn't interfere in everything, doesn't cost too much, and represents all of America. They want the opposite of what the democraps have become. MAGA is nothing other than the anti-democrap party.

 

[Hafar1014]

Again. You pick some one off policy. Sweden isn’t a right-wing country, and never has been. It’s one of the clearest examples of a left-leaning social democracy in the world. Tightening immigration rules in the past few years doesn’t change the underlying model, which is still built on:

• universal healthcare
• free/affordable university
• heavily subsidized childcare
• strong unions
• very high taxes on income and consumption
• one of the world’s strongest welfare states
• low inequality
• extensive worker protections
• a mandatory national pension system

Those are not remotely right-wing policies.

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016 — but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

None of that is right-wing.

Sweden succeeds because it’s a high-tax, high-service, left-leaning social democracy with very strong institutions — not because of any right-wing governance model.

If Sweden were actually “right-wing,” it wouldn’t score near the top of the world in happiness, health, safety, education, equality, social mobility, and quality of life.

Economic mobility isnt possible in Sweden. Taxes will keep you where you are when youre born. You arent likely to make a lot of money or start a business. Depression and alcoholism are serious problems. They did experiment with socialism and it drove wealth out of the country so they ended it. Government services arent free . You pay in taxes, a lower living standard, and lack of social mobility. We can ahav all of that in America only it costs less and produces more.

 

[citygator]

Whats a right wing country.
Tioy evaded the question. Show me democrat city that works. People are leaving them by the millions

I defined it in the OP. I put everything you need to answer the question in the OP. But here it is again:

By “right-wing dream” I assume we mean:

• Low taxes / small welfare state
• Strong nationalism
• Strict immigration control
• Weak labor protections
• Strong executive power
• Minimal regulation
• Market fundamentalism
• Traditionalist social policy

All US cities exist under the US government that has not delivered the best outcomes in the world. However, the best outcomes in the US come from blue states, not red states. You can start a thread on red vs blue states and I will be glad to join in on it.

 

[Hafar1014]

I defined it in the OP. I put everything you need to answer the question in the OP. But here it is again:

By “right-wing dream” I assume we mean:

• Low taxes / small welfare state
• Strong nationalism
• Strict immigration control
• Weak labor protections
• Strong executive power
• Minimal regulation
• Market fundamentalism
• Traditionalist social policy

All US cities exist under the US government that has not delivered the best outcomes in the world. However, the best outcomes in the US come from blue states, not red states. You can start a thread on red vs blue states and I will be glad to join in on it.

Its the democrat cities in any state where all the crime homeless, high taxes and living costs are. Its not the state that define quality of life its the one part rule cities controlled by democrats that have destroyed the quality of life. You using what is called a biased sample. Its the city not the state. IN fact democrats cities are the exact opposite of what you listed
High taxes most poverty, hate America, sanctuary cities, corrupt government, maximum regulation, one party rule democrats, high murder rates, and single mother broken families.

 

[citygator]

Economic mobility isnt possible in Sweden. Taxes will keep you where you are when youre born. You arent likely to make a lot of money or start a business. Depression and alcoholism are serious problems. They did experiment with socialism and it drove wealth out of the country so they ended it. Government services arent free . You pay in taxes, a lower living standard, and lack of social mobility. We can ahav all of that in America only it costs less and produces more.

Sweden isn’t just “good” at economic mobility — it is one of the best in the world, and dramatically better than the United States.

Alcoholism is an issue but it is 65% worse per capita in the US and we see 2.5X's the deaths from it per capita than Sweden.

You really, really, really need to do some research before coming at me in this thread. Im loaded for it.

• OECD — Alcohol consumption (litres per person 15+) : https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/alcohol-consumption.html
• World Health Organization (GHO) — Levels of alcohol consumption per capita by country : https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/t...m-on-alcohol-and-health/levels-of-consumption
• Public Health Agency of Sweden — Sweden’s per-capita consumption (~8.8 litres in 2022) : https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/living-conditions-and-lifestyle/andtg/alcohol/

 

[citygator]

Sweden isn't as leftist as you presume , CG. Just as a point of trivia, they have never put a transwoman on their world famous Bikini Team.

I appreciate your humor. However, it is a left leaning government. I've outlined the structure many times in this thread. You guys are confused because they are outdoor enthusiast and not flamboyant and you think a liberal is a tattooed dyed hair lesbian. You are ******* wrong.

 

[citygator]

Actually, the richest country in the world is Qatar, not Ireland at all. In fact, Ireland is pretty much struggling with the potato famine, a lot of the native Irish are migrating to other nations.

I covered that with "some small countries." They have only 2.8M people. Basically the size of Charlotte Metro area.

 

[Hafar1014]

Sweden isn’t just “good” at economic mobility — it is one of the best in the world, and dramatically better than the United States.

Alcoholism is an issue but it is 65% worse per capita in the US and we see 2.5X's the deaths from it per capita than Sweden.

You really, really, really need to do some research before coming at me in this thread. Im loaded for it.

• OECD — Alcohol consumption (litres per person 15+) : https://www.oecd.org/en/data/indicators/alcohol-consumption.html
• World Health Organization (GHO) — Levels of alcohol consumption per capita by country : https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/t...m-on-alcohol-and-health/levels-of-consumption
• Public Health Agency of Sweden — Sweden’s per-capita consumption (~8.8 litres in 2022) : https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/living-conditions-and-lifestyle/andtg/alcohol/

View attachment 1187522

I have been there many times. I dont care what some google graph says. In fact that graph is 100% BS. Sweden will keep you at average forever.
Alcoholism is so bad they have toilets without any plumbing in many public places. Just a box because its illegal to unornate in public. Go there see for yourself. How about a 60% tax on new cars. Few can afford a car they all ride bikes. When you go try the slushies

 

[Dorian Mode]

I defined it in the OP. I put everything you need to answer the question in the OP. But here it is again:

By “right-wing dream” I assume we mean:

• Low taxes / small welfare state
• Strong nationalism
• Strict immigration control
• Weak labor protections
• Strong executive power
• Minimal regulation
• Market fundamentalism
• Traditionalist social policy

All US cities exist under the US government that has not delivered the best outcomes in the world. However, the best outcomes in the US come from blue states, not red states. You can start a thread on red vs blue states and I will be glad to join in on it.

How about this for a more realistic right-wing dream:

• Low taxes / small welfare state - OK
• Strong nationalism - OK
• Strict immigration control - OK. Legal immigration is acceptable when needed. Open borders no.
• Weak labor protections - I would rather have just the necessary labor protections, not weak or excessive
• Strong executive power - Worst idea ever, the power should be decentralized as much as possible and closer to the people
• Minimal regulation - I would rather have just the necessary regulations, not minimal or excessive
• Market fundamentalism - I think the market needs to be managed to prevent the accumulation of power into too few hands
• Traditionalist social policy - OK, I think Society should manage most of its social problems, not an all powerful government.

You'll find that most right leaners are nowhere near as extreme as you want to paint them. People think I am right wing and I would love UHC. If only we didn't have a government so corrupt it makes a program like that impossible.

 

[citygator]

Nothing in your post addressed his point. YOu did call him racist.

I guess, in your mind, that means something....

The idea that only “white nations” are successful is just factually wrong.

There are plenty of majority-white countries that are poor, unstable, or struggling — like Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, and Bulgaria. Being white doesn’t magically produce prosperity.

And there are plenty of non-white or mixed societies that are highly successful, safe, wealthy, and well-governed — like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Chile, Uruguay, Barbados, Mauritius, UAE/Qatar (in some ways), and increasingly Vietnam.

What actually predicts national success is strong institutions, rule of law, low corruption, good governance, high social trust, and stable democratic norms — not skin color.

If “whiteness” caused prosperity, then Russia and Moldova would look like Switzerland, and Japan and Singapore would be basket-cases. Reality is exactly the opposite.

 

[citygator]

How about this for a more realistic right-wing dream:

• Low taxes / small welfare state - OK
• Strong nationalism - OK
• Strict immigration control - OK. Legal immigration is acceptable when needed. Open borders no.
• Weak labor protections - I would rather have just the necessary labor protections, not weak or excessive
• Strong executive power - Worst idea ever, the power should be decentralized as much as possible and closer to the people
• Minimal regulation - I would rather have just the necessary regulations, not minimal or excessive
• Market fundamentalism - I think the market needs to be managed to prevent the accumulation of power into too few hands
• Traditionalist social policy - OK, I think Society should manage most of its social problems, not an all powerful government.

You'll find that most right leaners are nowhere near as extreme as you want to paint them. People think I am right wing and I would love UHC. If only we didn't have a government so corrupt it makes a program like that impossible.

I think all you are zoning in on is that we have different opinions on what is weak vs strong policies. For instance your "necessary labor protections" are bound to be weak as a conservative vs mine as a progressive. We will both think they are necessary but we will be miles apart. Trump's tariffs are a good example where most righties think its necessary executive power and most progressives think its authoritarian and illegal.

Generally you seem to be ok with my designations you'd just debate the levels of them. Fine with me.

Any thoughts on an example of a successful implementation of those right wing policies?

 

[citygator]

I have been there many times. I dont care what some google graph says. In fact that graph is 100% BS. Sweden will keep you at average forever.
Alcoholism is so bad they have toilets without any plumbing in many public places. Just a box because its illegal to unornate in public. Go there see for yourself. How about a 60% tax on new cars. Few can afford a car they all ride bikes. When you go try the slushies

Dude. You couldnt possibly know everyone in the US and Sweden's level of alcoholism no matter how many times you visited. All the statistics from 3 separate sources point to Sweden being bad compared to its neighbors but way better than the US by about half.

Again, your anecdotal stories from a cruise ship port dont carry any weight. Find some data to back up your opinion or I will continue to devastate your posts. Its not a good look for you.

 

[Hafar1014]

I think all you are zoning in on is that we have different opinions on what is weak vs strong policies. For instance your "necessary labor protections" are bound to be weak as a conservative vs mine as a progressive. We will both think they are necessary but we will be miles apart. Trump's tariffs are a good example where most righties think its necessary executive power and most progressives think its authoritarian and illegal.

Generally you seem to be ok with my designations you'd just debate the levels of them. Fine with me.

Any thoughts on an example of a successful implementation of those right wing policies?

Progressive polices suppress wealth creation unless you in the government. This explains it perfectly
People are moving from states with Democratic policies to states with Republican policies, citing reasons like the high cost of living, crime, and taxation. This trend is causing population decline in some traditionally "blue" states, such as California and New York, and rapid growth in "red" states like Texas and Florida. For example, between 2020 and 2023, Republican-leaning counties saw a net gain of 3.7 million people, while Democratic-leaning counties had a net loss of 3.7 million.

Reasons for population shifts

• Cost of living and taxation: Higher costs and taxes in some Democratic-led states are a major draw for people seeking more affordable options in Republican-led states.
• Crime and public safety: Some residents cite crime rates as a reason for leaving Democratic-controlled cities and states.
• Political and cultural environment: A political environment perceived as less favorable or as a source of ineffective policies is a key factor for many moving to states with different approaches, such as those emphasizing different approaches to business development, individual freedoms, and economic growth.
• Remote work: The rise of remote work has enabled people to move to states with a lower cost of living and more scenic settings, which have often been more conservative.

Examples of population shifts

• Blue states: California and New York are projected to experience population decline, while Illinois is expected to shrink by 2030. Some cities within these states are also seeing significant population drops, such as St. Louis, which had the fastest city population drop between 2020 and 2024.
• Red states: Texas and Florida are experiencing rapid growth, with millions of new residents expected. Arizona, North Carolina, and other Republican-leaning states are also seeing population gains.

 

[struth]

Again. You pick some one off policy. Sweden isn’t a right-wing country, and never has been. It’s one of the clearest examples of a left-leaning social democracy in the world. Tightening immigration rules in the past few years doesn’t change the underlying model, which is still built on:

• universal healthcare
• free/affordable university
• heavily subsidized childcare
• strong unions
• very high taxes on income and consumption
• one of the world’s strongest welfare states
• low inequality
• extensive worker protections
• a mandatory national pension system

Those are not remotely right-wing policies.

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

None of that is right-wing.

Sweden succeeds because it’s a high-tax, high-service, left-leaning social democracy with very strong institutions, not because of any right-wing governance model.

If Sweden were actually “right-wing,” it wouldn’t score near the top of the world in happiness, health, safety, education, equality, social mobility, and quality of life.

Whatever you want to call them, i think we should adopted their social security policy and immigration policy.

You down with that?

 

[Hafar1014]

Dude. You couldnt possibly know everyone in the US and Sweden's level of alcoholism no matter how many times you visited. All the statistics from 3 separate sources point to Sweden being bad compared to its neighbors but way better than the US by about half.

Again, your anecdotal stories from a cruise ship port dont carry any weight. Find some data to back up your opinion or I will continue to devastate your posts. Its not a good look for you.

You wouldn't know a real statistic from a fake one. I have been all over the world. The best place to get rich is America. If you cant make it here you just cant make it.