Show Me the Country Where The MAGA/Conservative Government Works. I Dare You.

[SweetTea]

I live in a red area of a red state. It's loaded with money.

Same goes for me. Median income in my area is well above the national average. My area is red. Lower income areas of the state are blue. All higher income areas are red, with the exception of only one oddball town that is stuck in their ways and have yet to realize that the current Democratic Party isn’t their great, great grandpa’s Democratic Party.

As I have tried to point out many times to JoeB131, higher average incomes or working from home in a red state with a cost of living inflated income from a big blue city coupled with lower taxes and a lower cost of living = a higher standard of living. Many who don’t know the South are under the false impression that the average to wealthy income folks live in homes that are intermingled with double-wides and crime ridden neighborhoods. I understand their confusion because many come from big blue cities where things can change in a “New York minute.” One “nice” block is relatively safe and the next you are dodging bullets. That just isn’t the life most of us lead in the red states, at least not the red area of the state in which I live. My wife could stroll our children around every neighborhood in a several mile radius of our home at night and not feel the least be threatened.

 

[JoeB131]

Same goes for me. Median income in my area is well above the national average. My area is red. Lower income areas of the state are blue. All higher income areas are red, with the exception of only one oddball town that is stuck in their ways and have yet to realize that the current Democratic Party isn’t their great, great grandpa’s Democratic Party.

As I have tried to point out many times to JoeB131, higher average incomes or working from home in a red state with a cost of living inflated income from a big blue city coupled with lower taxes and a lower cost of living = a higher standard of living. Many who don’t know the South are under the false impression that the average to wealthy income folks live in homes that are intermingled with double-wides and crime ridden neighborhoods. I understand their confusion because many come from big blue cities where things can change in a “New York minute.” One “nice” block is relatively safe and the next you are dodging bullets. That just isn’t the life most of us lead in the red states, at least not the red area of the state in which I live. My wife could stroll our children around every neighborhood in a several mile radius of our home at night and not feel the least be threatened.

Once again, let's look at that poverty map.

If the Red states weren't being propped up by the Blue States, they'd be a third-world country.

 

[SweetTea]

Listen. A lot of democrats live in the wealthiest states. Few democrats live in the poorest states. The correlation is that more democrats means more wealth even if the wealthy are conservative.

Wait, so Democrats are the party of the rich? Let me explain something to you. Big blue cities pay garbage collectors what many starting engineers make in red states. They must because the cost of living is exhobitant. These salaries inflate the average income numbers of the Democratic Party, that and the ultra-wealthy(100s of millions), of which are Democrats. In my area, a white collar, educated professional is far more likely to be a Republican than a Democrat. “Rich”, as defined by Biden at 400k/yr, small business owners are far more likely to be Republicans.

Regardless, you and many like you would the first to complain if your taxes were raised to a point where you actually felt the pain. Ultra-wealthy Democrats have shown this tendency time and time again. “Oh, you mean I have to sacrifice something for these childish ideas. We need to make an exception.” (SALT)

It does NOT show median disposable income. This is the #1 source of confusion for you guys.

That is not a source of confusion for me. I know the difference between average(mean) and median. Income disparity doesn’t bother me in any way shape or form. The fact that one of my neighbors has a McLaren, a Porsche GT3RS, Cybertruck Beast and a Corvette ZR1X in his “play” are garage isn’t any source of pain for me. He earned it with a very successful business model. I have other neighbors with similar stories with multi-million dollar second and third homes. They have more money than me, but they didn’t steal it from me. If I want a larger piece of the American pie, I have to work to get there. Such is life. I learned this many years ago. You need to grow up.

Yawn. You generate no GDP so you have shit to mooch off of. Enjoying my social security payments to you?

I am not retired. I too work for a multi-billion dollar corporation myself in a technical field. My corporation may have something to do with keeping your multi-billion dollar corporation afloat.

My wife is a physician. Does she contribute to the GDP?

Nothing but insults.

Just pointing out the facts. My teenage son doesn’t like hearing the truth either but he will likely grow out of it. My biggest challenge in life is to keep my children from becoming Democrats as young teenagers and never maturing and growing out of it.

 

[SweetTea]

Once again, let's look at that poverty map.

View attachment 1187828
If the Red states weren't being propped up by the Blue States, they'd be a third-world country.

Now, find a county by county map of a red state. It will be a shocker to you to find that the red areas are wealthier than the blue and it isn’t close. Our blue areas are a huge drag for sure and we don’t have the 100k garbage collector salaries to compensate.

 

[Nostra]

Now break it down using this Red/blue map, Simp.

 

[dblack]

Liberal democracies have dozens of successful examples. But I am interested in what nations implement the right wing dream of government that Trump's policies desire to implement. Where in the world can we look for successful implementation of right wing principles of government? Surely someone must have examples of these policies working.

Just for thought starters I pulled the rankings of key metrics of success for countries. Surprisingly they are replete with liberal democracies with high taxes, strong welfare states, and high social trust..

Please keep the flame wars to a minimum. Just looking for a discussion on where the right wing is killing it in success world wide.

Happiest Countries in the World: Switzerland, Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Finland
Healthiest Countries in the World: Spain, Italy, Iceland, Japan, Switzerland, Finland, Norway
Richest Countries in the World: Ireland, Norway, Switzerland, US, some small countries
Most Educated Countries in the World: Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Canada
Most Free Countries in the World: Switzerland, New Zealand, Denmark, Ireland, Finland, Australia, Sweden, Iceland.
Most Opportunity Countries in the World: Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Netherlands, Switzerland, Germany

By “right-wing dream” I assume we mean:

• Low taxes / small welfare state
• Strong nationalism
• Strict immigration control
• Weak labor protections
• Strong executive power
• Minimal regulation
• Market fundamentalism
• Traditionalist social policy

GO!

First of all, MAGA and "Conservative government" are VERY different things.

 

[JoeB131]

Now, find a county by county map of a red state. It will be a shocker to you to find that the red areas are wealthier than the blue and it isn’t close. Our blue areas are a huge drag for sure and we don’t have the 100k garbage collector salaries to compensate.

Counties where barely anyone lives doesn't count for much.

It the majority of your state is dirt poor (you know, the state you won't tell us where you live) then your state is poor. Period.

This is the kind of tone-deafness that Marie Antoinette suffered from, until she lost her head.

 

[SweetTea]

Counties where barely anyone lives doesn't count for much.

It the majority of your state is dirt poor (you know, the state you won't tell us where you live) then your state is poor. Period.

This is the kind of tone-deafness that Marie Antoinette suffered from, until she lost her head.

I would be all for shipping all our Democrats up to Illinois. We would be MUCH better off. The problem is, even they don’t want to live there. Your people are coming here.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Counties where barely anyone lives doesn't count for much.

It the majority of your state is dirt poor (you know, the state you won't tell us where you live) then your state is poor. Period.

This is the kind of tone-deafness that Marie Antoinette suffered from, until she lost her head.

Racists like you can’t wait to point out all those southern states full of black folk ******* up the spreadsheets.

 

[citygator]

First of all, MAGA and "Conservative government" are VERY different things.

In reality I agree. In fantasyland they pretend to be aligned.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Wait, so Democrats are the party of the rich? Let me explain something to you. Big blue cities pay garbage collectors what many starting engineers make in red states. They must because the cost of living is exhobitant. These salaries inflate the average income numbers of the Democratic Party, that and the ultra-wealthy(100s of millions), of which are Democrats. In my area, a white collar, educated professional is far more likely to be a Republican than a Democrat. “Rich”, as defined by Biden at 400k/yr, small business owners are far more likely to be Republicans.

Regardless, you and many like you would the first to complain if your taxes were raised to a point where you actually felt the pain. Ultra-wealthy Democrats have shown this tendency time and time again. “Oh, you mean I have to sacrifice something for these childish ideas. We need to make an exception.” (SALT)



That is not a source of confusion for me. I know the difference between average(mean) and median. Income disparity doesn’t bother me in any way shape or form. The fact that one of my neighbors has a McLaren, a Porsche GT3RS, Cybertruck Beast and a Corvette ZR1X in his “play” are garage isn’t any source of pain for me. He earned it with a very successful business model. I have other neighbors with similar stories with multi-million dollar second and third homes. They have more money than me, but they didn’t steal it from me. If I want a larger piece of the American pie, I have to work to get there. Such is life. I learned this many years ago. You need to grow up.



I am not retired. I too work for a multi-billion dollar corporation myself in a technical field. My corporation may have something to do with keeping your multi-billion dollar corporation afloat.

My wife is a physician. Does she contribute to the GDP?



Just pointing out the facts. My teenage son doesn’t like hearing the truth either but he will likely grow out of it. My biggest challenge in life is to keep my children from becoming Democrats as young teenagers and never maturing and growing out of it.

Great Post!

Again, we see that the "statistics" that are being used to make the argument are not meaningful to the argument.

OP says: "Here are a bunch of numbers that show the U.S. is bad compared to these other countries. Huge population disparities......metrics that are used that purposely work against the U.S.

Who needs it?

 

[JoeB131]

I would be all for shipping all our Democrats up to Illinois. We would be MUCH better off. The problem is, even they don’t want to live there. Your people are coming here.

Only because you let big corporations **** the wage slaves.

You are clueless.

 

[citygator]

Wait, so Democrats are the party of the rich? Let me explain something to you. Big blue cities pay garbage collectors what many starting engineers make in red states. They must because the cost of living is exhobitant. These salaries inflate the average income numbers of the Democratic Party, that and the ultra-wealthy(100s of millions), of which are Democrats. In my area, a white collar, educated professional is far more likely to be a Republican than a Democrat. “Rich”, as defined by Biden at 400k/yr, small business owners are far more likely to be Republicans.

Democrats are not the party of the rich. But heavily democrat areas are where the economic engine is. Blue counties generate 70% of the GDP. Cost of living is high because.... people want to live where 70% of the GDP is generated. Duh. That creates a lot of demand for real estate and services. People are moving south but they are moving to blue cities in the south.

Regardless, you and many like you would the first to complain if your taxes were raised to a point where you actually felt the pain. Ultra-wealthy Democrats have shown this tendency time and time again. “Oh, you mean I have to sacrifice something for these childish ideas. We need to make an exception.” (SALT)

I admit. I am making out like a bandit under Trump. My personal situation of pillaging the US is in good shape. Trumps cuts are all going to the top. I expect another record earnings year, hopefully. Go Trump!

That is not a source of confusion for me. I know the difference between average(mean) and median. Income disparity doesn’t bother me in any way shape or form. The fact that one of my neighbors has a McLaren, a Porsche GT3RS, Cybertruck Beast and a Corvette ZR1X in his “play” are garage isn’t any source of pain for me. He earned it with a very successful business model. I have other neighbors with similar stories with multi-million dollar second and third homes. They have more money than me, but they didn’t steal it from me. If I want a larger piece of the American pie, I have to work to get there. Such is life. I learned this many years ago. You need to grow up.

When comparing which country is doing better we look at how much money the average person has, not how much people have on average. If Elon Musk held 99% of the money in the US and the rest of us were flat broke, then its not working. You cant discount median income as a good measure of prosperity. Our median income is way below others as I showed. You get that right, engineer?

I am not retired. I too work for a multi-billion dollar corporation myself in a technical field. My corporation may have something to do with keeping your multi-billion dollar corporation afloat.

My wife is a physician. Does she contribute to the GDP?

You have very fear based positions so I am surprised you are an engineer + doctor family. My son in an ER doctor (MD) and his wife is an engineer, so your situation reversed. They'll pull in about $650K per year. Under Biden they would pay a whopping $6k more per year in taxes. I'd pay about $30k more. I wouldnt miss it and neither would they. But hey... we have to stop giving free shit to people who will die without the help so, all good I guess?

Just pointing out the facts. My teenage son doesn’t like hearing the truth either but he will likely grow out of it. My biggest challenge in life is to keep my children from becoming Democrats as young teenagers and never maturing and growing out of it.

Your son is getting uninformed information from you. You post like a right wing nut on here. I cant imagine how his opinion of your is changing. 50% chance you'll be estranged.

 

[citygator]

Now break it down using this Red/blue map, Simp.

View attachment 1187841

https://careshq.org/map-room/?bbox=-14904666.30%2C2328166.80%2C-6426823.80%2C6726047.60&fs=1&l=%5B%7B%22id%22%3A%22arcgis-light-gray%22%2C%22v%22%3A1%2C%22lb%22%3A1%2C%22b%22%3A1%7D%2C%7B%22id%22%3A%2268036%22%2C%22op%22%3A0.7%2C%22v%22%3A1%2C%22def%22%3A%5B%22%22%5D%7D%2C%7B%22id%22%3A%22r2%22%2C%22v%22%3A1%7D%2C%7B%22id%22%3A%22r8%22%2C%22op%22%3A0.4%7D%2C%7B%22id%22%3A%22r3%22%2C%22op%22%3A0.8%2C%22v%22%3A1%7D%2C%7B%22id%22%3A%22r6%22%2C%22op%22%3A0.9%7D%5D

 

[citygator]

Just an update:

Zero countries offered as a model of right wing success. Submissions have been:

• Poland (not successful, more middle of the road, and the things that work are left wing policies: High-tax welfare state,
  Universal healthcare, EU regulation, Worker protections, High government spending)
• Sweden (not right wing at all, its big gov/welfare state)
• United States (Terrible metrics outside of miliary power, GDP, and innovation plus the right wingers hate it so much they want to dismantle the entire government)

There will be no right wing success stories because one doesn't exist. There are a dozen or more left wing examples.

 

[SweetTea]

People are moving south but they are moving to blue cities in the south.

Weird, I live in red city that has been totally invaded. My only hope is that they assimilate and not drag us down to the level of the cities in which they fled.

I admit. I am making out like a bandit under Trump. My personal situation of pillaging the US is in good shape. Trumps cuts are all going to the top. I expect another record earnings year, hopefully. Go Trump!

Again, you talk big, but you and your ilk raised Cain when Trump capped the SALT deduction. Maybe you didn't realize that is a federal subsidy for heavily taxed blue areas.

When comparing which country is doing better we look at how much money the average person has, not how much people have on average. If Elon Musk held 99% of the money in the US and the rest of us were flat broke, then its not working. You cant discount median income as a good measure of prosperity. Our median income is way below others as I showed. You get that right, engineer?

Not sure where you get your info, but the US is the second ranked country in median disposable income taking into account the PPP of each country. In other words, Americans have more money to spend than every country in the world minus Luxembourg. Your data is wrong.

You have very fear based positions so I am surprised you are an engineer + doctor family. My son in an ER doctor (MD) and his wife is an engineer, so your situation reversed. They'll pull in about $650K per year. Under Biden they would pay a whopping $6k more per year in taxes. I'd pay about $30k more. I wouldnt miss it and neither would they. But hey... we have to stop giving free shit to people who will die without the help so, all good I guess?

I am very much a pragmatist as is my wife. We pay more in taxes that most make. I don't care if you or your family would miss a raise in taxes. We earn the money we make and already pay more than our "fair share". If you would like to give more, then have it. All Democrats could get together and donate to the federal government. I am sure the money will be well spent and not wasted. We donate more to charities AND our church than most. Democrats aren't nearly as charitable, granted because many of them aren't religious, but giving more and more money to our federal government to blow isn't the answer.

Your son is getting uninformed information from you. You post like a right wing nut on here. I cant imagine how his opinion of your is changing. 50% chance you'll be estranged.

You area an indoctrinated left-wing nut. You and your family have been successful in a country that you routinely bash as being behind other countries. Ironically, neither your nor your family would have the successes you have in the countries which you tout as being great examples of successful.

My son will be fine. Unlike you, he is intelligent enough NOT to fall for the rhetoric. He thinks for himself. He has surrounded himself with intelligent, free thinkers, not the herd, though admittedly(and luckily) there aren't many left-wingers in his private school. Just as my wife had to bite her tongue in her very prestigious, yet very liberal private university in the Northeast, he will have to do the same. Professors and people like you don't like to hear dissenting opinions because it would mean having to admit that gasp, you may have admit that you had been fooled your entire lives. It's way past time to grow up and stop thinking like an average teenager.

 

[citygator]

Not sure where you get your info, but the US is the second ranked country in median disposable income taking into account the PPP of each country. In other words, Americans have more money to spend than every country in the world minus Luxembourg. Your data is wrong.

I linked my data. Its 100% correct. You cant dispute it so you repeated the lie I debunked. Go ahead and link your claim if you think it is accurate. I'll wait.

 

[SweetTea]

I linked my data. Its 100% correct. You cant dispute it so you repeated the lie I debunked. Go ahead and link your claim if you think it is accurate. I'll wait.

Just a couple. Your welcome.

https://www.oecd.org/en/publication...en/full-report/household-income_3ee61044.html

TOP 10 Countries by Real Median Household Income (PPP, 2025) - World ranking sites

 

[HikerGuy83]

Its 100% correct.

And it is 100% worthless in terms of the argument you are making.

 

[SweetTea]

Just a couple. Your welcome.

https://www.oecd.org/en/publication...en/full-report/household-income_3ee61044.html

TOP 10 Countries by Real Median Household Income (PPP, 2025) - World ranking sites

citygator I anxiously await your reply. I realize it is Thanksgiving so I’ll cut you some slack, but I am very curious the spin you will put on this once you come to the realization that the US is in fact the 2nd ranked country in the world when it comes to MEDIAN disposable income and thus serves as a great example of a non-social Democracy, with many right-wing tendencies, being extremely successful.