Show Me the Country Where The MAGA/Conservative Government Works. I Dare You.

[Dorian Mode]

I think all you are zoning in on is that we have different opinions on what is weak vs strong policies. For instance your "necessary labor protections" are bound to be weak as a conservative vs mine as a progressive. We will both think they are necessary but we will be miles apart. Trump's tariffs are a good example where most righties think its necessary executive power and most progressives think its authoritarian and illegal.

Generally you seem to be ok with my designations you'd just debate the levels of them. Fine with me.

Any thoughts on an example of a successful implementation of those right wing policies?

Unfortunately there are no right wing utopias and there are no progressive utopias, so this is all just banter. Anyone who has studied the various forms of governments over the last 4 millennia will realize that governments are never put in place to provide utopia, they are put in place to protect those that have everything from those who have nothing. Our own government was founded to protect the landholders from the commoners. Everyone on this forum should wake up and realize that the government is not there to benefit us, it is there to benefit "them." There is a better way to say this: Both parties suck. They give us just enough to keep us from revolting, or bringing in a third party that actually wants to benefit the people more.

 

[citygator]

Progressive polices suppress wealth creation unless you in the government. This explains it perfectly
People are moving from states with Democratic policies to states with Republican policies, citing reasons like the high cost of living, crime, and taxation. This trend is causing population decline in some traditionally "blue" states, such as California and New York, and rapid growth in "red" states like Texas and Florida. For example, between 2020 and 2023, Republican-leaning counties saw a net gain of 3.7 million people, while Democratic-leaning counties had a net loss of 3.7 million.

Reasons for population shifts

• Cost of living and taxation: Higher costs and taxes in some Democratic-led states are a major draw for people seeking more affordable options in Republican-led states.
• Crime and public safety: Some residents cite crime rates as a reason for leaving Democratic-controlled cities and states.
• Political and cultural environment: A political environment perceived as less favorable or as a source of ineffective policies is a key factor for many moving to states with different approaches, such as those emphasizing different approaches to business development, individual freedoms, and economic growth.
• Remote work: The rise of remote work has enabled people to move to states with a lower cost of living and more scenic settings, which have often been more conservative.

Examples of population shifts

• Blue states: California and New York are projected to experience population decline, while Illinois is expected to shrink by 2030. Some cities within these states are also seeing significant population drops, such as St. Louis, which had the fastest city population drop between 2020 and 2024.
• Red states: Texas and Florida are experiencing rapid growth, with millions of new residents expected. Arizona, North Carolina, and other Republican-leaning states are also seeing population gains.

Feel free to start a thread on this, it is not on topic here. I will make you look very wrong though so it is a risk. The outcomes in the US are no where near the world's best, and I say that as someone who loves it here. We have fallen way behind. The red states have way worse metrics than blue states. We can debate that in your thread but do your research before you start it.

 

[citygator]

Unfortunately there are no right wing utopias and there are no progressive utopias, so this is all just banter. Anyone who has studied the various forms of governments over the last 4 millennia will realize that governments are never put in place to provide utopia, they are put in place to protect those that have everything from those who have nothing. Our own government was founded to protect the landholders from the commoners. Everyone on this forum should wake up and realize that the government is not there to benefit us, it is there to benefit "them." There is a better way to say this: Both parties suck. They give us just enough to keep us from revolting, or bringing in a third party that actually wants to benefit the people more.

I get your frustration - the US politics right now blows and is very combative for power's sake. It is a very pessimistic view of human nature however and very untrusting of institutions. This is a point in time derivative from this new misinformation age. I think that pessimism and lack of trust is why right wing policies fall apart. They all assume nothing can be improved through cooperation and that everything is reduced to fighting over the pie.

I disagree. I know cooperation produces better outcomes than going it alone. That is why societies exist.

No Utopias will ever exist but there are countries doing better than others. Those that are doing well have a similar model which has high taxes and high welfare support. They are liberal social democracies with more redistributive policies but leave enough to motivate strong effort. There are no working examples of libertarian or right wing governing that is producing good outcomes and that isnt an accident. They dont work.

 

[struth]

Dude. You couldnt possibly know everyone in the US and Sweden's level of alcoholism no matter how many times you visited. All the statistics from 3 separate sources point to Sweden being bad compared to its neighbors but way better than the US by about half.

Again, your anecdotal stories from a cruise ship port dont carry any weight. Find some data to back up your opinion or I will continue to devastate your posts. Its not a good look for you.

When are you going to start asking your congressmen to adopt the Swedish SS system and immigration policy?

 

[citygator]

When are you going to start asking your congressmen to adopt the Swedish SS system and immigration policy?

I answered your misconceptions. Would you like me to paste them again?

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

 

[Hafar1014]

Feel free to start a thread on this, it is not on topic here. I will make you look very wrong though so it is a risk. The outcomes in the US are no where near the world's best, and I say that as someone who loves it here. We have fallen way behind. The red states have way worse metrics than blue states. We can debate that in your thread but do your research before you start it.

Thats because blue cities in any state are where all the crime poverty, high taxes, one party democrat rule, poor schools, homeless, high costs, filth, illegals stealing jobs lowering wages, shoplifting and all the outcomes of progressive ideology.
Its really dumb to use states as the measure when any fool can see its the cities were the problems are. Democrat cities. People are voting with their feet and moving to Red states to escape the progressive oppression before they are murdered raped and driven into bankruptcy.

 

[struth]

I answered your misconceptions. Would you like me to paste them again?

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

great, nothing wrong with accepting more immigrants, my question is when are you going to get your party to adopt their policy on which immigrants they accept?

I think they have a great SS system, they privatized it, when are you going to push that our Govt does the same?

um our SS system is universal and national, and has guarantees, disability benefits, survivor benefits etc, the only reason theirs is run better is because they privatized it, they saw the writing on the wall that dems here refuse to address

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-sweden-saved-social-security

Sweden introduced partial privatization of the kind the American left derides as a Republican plot to gamble our money away on the stock market. The Swedish government withholds roughly 2.3% of wages and puts it into individual pension accounts. Workers are allowed to choose up to five different funds in which to invest this money, according to their own risk preference, and can change them at any time free.

 

[Correll]

The idea that only “white nations” are successful is just factually wrong.

The way you are twisting what he said, to something ELSE, so that you can then address teh stawman you created?

That is you revealing that his point was right. Otherwise, you would address it instead of running away from it.

There are plenty of majority-white countries that are poor, unstable, or struggling — like Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, and Bulgaria. Being white doesn’t magically produce prosperity.

Look at the lefty talking shit about his own strawman. Funny and irrelevant.

And there are plenty of non-white or mixed societies that are highly successful, safe, wealthy, and well-governed — like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Chile, Uruguay, Barbados, Mauritius, UAE/Qatar (in some ways), and increasingly Vietnam.

No one said anything about this not being true. This is just you talking shit about your own strawman.

What actually predicts national success is strong institutions, rule of law, low corruption, good governance, high social trust, and stable democratic norms — not skin color.

Most of our immigration is coming from MEXICO.

Does MEXICO have any of that?

Let me rephrase that.

Does ******* MEXICO, have ******* any of that ******* SHIT?

If “whiteness” caused prosperity, then Russia and Moldova would look like Switzerland, and Japan and Singapore would be basket-cases. Reality is exactly the opposite.

I agree. Russia is a good example to not follow. Japan? Much there to learn from.

IMO, Japan did well for itself, with ECONOMIC NATIONALISM and aggressive trade policy. NOt to mention highly restrictive immigration laws.

You want to learn from JAPAN?

 

[BrokeLoser]

I disagree. I know cooperation produces better outcomes than going it alone. That is why societies exist.

“Cooperation”?
You mean cohesion…You can’t have cohesion where too many people are too different on too many different levels.
Return our demography to model 1950-1985 America and no nation can compare on any level. FACTS

 

[Dorian Mode]

I get your frustration - the US politics right now blows and is very combative for power's sake. It is a very pessimistic view of human nature however and very untrusting of institutions. This is a point in time derivative from this new misinformation age. I think that pessimism and lack of trust is why right wing policies fall apart. They all assume nothing can be improved through cooperation and that everything is reduced to fighting over the pie.

I disagree. I know cooperation produces better outcomes than going it alone. That is why societies exist.

No Utopias will ever exist but there are countries doing better than others. Those that are doing well have a similar model which has high taxes and high welfare support. They are liberal social democracies with more redistributive policies but leave enough to motivate strong effort. There are no working examples of libertarian or right wing governing that is producing good outcomes and that isnt an accident. They dont work.

One could point out all the obvious flaws of the left wing today too. We are essentially arguing over who is better, the Bloods or the Crips. I see you have a vested interest in the democrats, so the best way to get the democrats to win is not tell everyone that the right sucks more, it is to encourage your own party to stop doing all the shit that the majority of the country doesn't want or like. Illegal immigration is a perfect example. The democrap party has lost its way with the middle class so bad it lost to Trump, again. The best way to beat Trump/the right is with a better party that better represents the vast majority of all Americans. The bottom line is, the people think the left sucks too. Fix it. With action, not words.

 

[citygator]

Thats because blue cities in any state are where all the crime poverty, high taxes, one party democrat rule, poor schools, homeless, high costs, filth, illegals stealing jobs lowering wages, shoplifting and all the outcomes of progressive ideology.
Its really dumb to use states as the measure when any fool can see its the cities were the problems are. Democrat cities. People are voting with their feet and moving to Red states to escape the progressive oppression before they are murdered raped and driven into bankruptcy.

Feel free to start a thread. I'll show up and explain to you why you are wrong.

 

[citygator]

“Cooperation”?
You mean cohesion…You can’t have cohesion where too many people are too different on too many different levels.
Return our demography to model 1950-1985 America and no nation can compare on any level. FACTS

Xenophobia and racism are just so intellectually boring.

There is zero evidence that U.S. economic success has ever declined because of high immigration. In fact, historically the relationship is the opposite: immigration levels rise during periods of strong economic growth and fall during economic downturns.

During the Great Depression immigration plummeted — not because immigrants made the economy bad, but because the U.S. economy was bad and there were no jobs to come for.

After WWII, immigration rose sharply as the U.S. entered one of the strongest economic booms in world history.

The data are clear: strong U.S. economies attract more immigrants; weak economies attract fewer. Immigration is an effect — not a cause — of economic performance.

 

[Hafar1014]

I answered your misconceptions. Would you like me to paste them again?

Sweden’s immigration reforms in the last decade were responses to a very large refugee inflow in 2015–2016, but even after those changes, Sweden still accepts more immigrants per capita than the U.S. and maintains a more generous asylum and integration system.

And Sweden’s pension model (you called it “SS policies”) is more redistributive and universal than the U.S. system, not less. It includes:

• a universal national pension
• a mandatory earnings-based pension
• a guaranteed minimum pension
• survivor benefits
• disability benefits

great, nothing wrong with accepting more immigrants, my question is when are you going to get your party to adopt their policy on which immigrants they accept?

I think they have a great SS system, they privatized it, when are you going to push that our Govt does the same?

um our SS system is universal and national, and has guarantees, disability benefits, survivor benefits etc, the only reason theirs is run better is because they privatized it, they saw the writing on the wall that dems here refuse to address

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-sweden-saved-social-security

Sweden introduced partial privatization of the kind the American left derides as a Republican plot to gamble our money away on the stock market. The Swedish government withholds roughly 2.3% of wages and puts it into individual pension accounts. Workers are allowed to choose up to five different funds in which to invest this money, according to their own risk preference, and can change them at any time free.

Feel free to start a thread. I'll show up and explain to you why you are wrong.

Go ahead explain why Chicago is a great place to live. Los Angeles, San Francisco. NY especially NY. Go to Times square get killed. Gets set on fire in Chicago.
Then explain why millions are fleeing to live in Red states.

 

[Hafar1014]

Xenophobia and racism are just so intellectually boring.

There is zero evidence that U.S. economic success has ever declined because of high immigration. In fact, historically the relationship is the opposite: immigration levels rise during periods of strong economic growth and fall during economic downturns.

During the Great Depression immigration plummeted — not because immigrants made the economy bad, but because the U.S. economy was bad and there were no jobs to come for.

After WWII, immigration rose sharply as the U.S. entered one of the strongest economic booms in world history.

The data are clear: strong U.S. economies attract more immigrants; weak economies attract fewer. Immigration is an effect — not a cause — of economic performance.

Democrats attract illegal immigrants, rapists child abusers, killers drug dealers, child traffickers, gangs terrorists and all the wonderful members of the progressive utopia.

 

[Slyhunter]

Many of the countries you list are not considered socialist by many authoritative sources. I will include one source in the link.

Countries not considered socialist:

Sweden
Norway
Finland
Denmark
Netherlands
Belgium
Germany
Canada
Etc.

OTOH, check the Latin American countries with socialist constitutions:

Mexico
Honduras
Cuba
Brazil
Bolivia
Chile
Venezuela
Colombia


If you can't see the key, then check directly below:

pink--socialist ruling party
orange--socialist constitution
blue--formerly socialist
red--communist

Socialist Countries 2026

A clear breakdown of socialist countries worldwide, including communist constitutions, socialist constitutions, socialist ruling parties, and former socialist states.

worldpopulationreview.com

Countries not considered socialist:

Sweden
Norway
Finland
Denmark
Netherlands
Belgium
Germany
Canada
Etc.

These countries are all definitely socialist in nature even if not completely.
When I as in Germany girls all wanted to get pregnant by an American so they could collect Germany's welfare, which paid per kid, and our COLA payments. Germany was an awesome time capsule of their culture until the Muslims moved in and ruined it.

Canada solves their overly stressed out socialist medical program by offering Euthanasia to their sick and elderly.

They all have socialist welfare, medical, and wealth transfer programs.

 

[Slyhunter]

We are 20 pages in and no one has found a successful country that is based on right wing ideology. We have a dozen or more successful left leaning countries though.

You're ignoring Florida and Texas which are the size of most of your socialist countries, that should be called States.

 

[BrokeLoser]

We are 20 pages in and no one has found a successful country that is based on right wing ideology. We have a dozen or more successful left leaning countries though.

True.
For 20 pages you have insisted that all white nations kick ass regardless of their politics and or economics.
Nobody sane would argue that.

 

[SaxonJackson]

More nonsense. There are lots of unsuccessful countries that are homogenous white. That isn’t what makes a successful nation. Anyone who isn’t racist can see that. Good government and resources make a successful nation.

You didn't address the fact that the nations on your list are primarily White ones. It seems that history as proven that wherever Whites settle, civilizations arise. And when they become successful, the 3rd world flock in and swarm the borders. You certainly don't see whites sneaking into the Congo or El Salvador by the millions.

 

[struth]

True.
For 20 pages you have insisted that all white nations kick ass regardless of their politics and or economics.
Nobody sane would argue that.

citygator isn't sane, his bigotry is crazy

 

[Meister]

So. Massive social security, unemployment, Medicare, ACA, SNAP, $2T in annual deficits to afford bad outcomes for health, happiness, and affordability are the right wingers dream? OK, then why are we trying to Make American Great Again ?

What part of the United States isn't perfect but way ahead of second place do you not understand?

You are trying to compare a country with 9 million to a country with 335 million.
Also, where would your utopia be without the United States? Because in your pie
in the sky utopian country would certainly not have the economy that we have
right now.