Should Young Minorities Be Allowed To Buy Guns ?

[WinterBorn]

Did you read the OP ? Never comment in a thread without reading the OP, and understanding it fully.

All that you're asking about is in the OP (Promise Program , Nicolas Cruz, etc).

Yes, I read the OP. I also read the title you made for the thread. The OP doesn't explain why you'd want to specifically prevent young minorities from owning guns, rather than just criminals. And of course, the thread title doesn't mention criminals at all, just young minorities. So again, I'm trying to clarify what you're saying. Do you oppose young minorities being able to purchase guns? Do you only oppose criminals being able to purchase guns? Do you think all young minorities are criminals? Is there a reason you seem hesitant to make such clarifications?

You seem to be the only one in this thread having trouble understanding the OP. Maybe you might try a course in reading comprehension.

In the OP very first sentence, I stated that I'm opposed to criminals buying guns. I also stated that due to the Promise Program criminals with crime records are impervious to background checks, because their records are concealed.

So the question then is, since gun sellers cannot determine the backgrounds of PP kids, should all young minorities (the PP designation) be kept from buying guns (in order to stop the criminal, young minorities from buying them.

Or do we want to gamble, with another Parkland massacre as the stakes. Got it ?

You don't seem to understand, the only crimes that prevent being able to buy a gun are felonies and domestic abuse.

The fact that a misdemeanor doesn't show up because of PP is irrelevant. The misdemeanor wouldn't stop the purchase anyway.

Non-violent misdemeanors shouldn't prevent an individual from purchasing a firearm. Speeding, parking illegally, being drunk in public, not picking up your dogs feces, et cetera, are all misdemeanors and thus have no bearing on firearms ownership. I do believe that certain psychiatric diagnoses should prevent individuals from firearms ownership.

I just addressed that in my previous post. ANY crime (or non crime) can stop a gun sale.

No. Any felony and the misdemeanor crime of domestic abuse are the only crimes that prevent buying a gun.

 

[IM2]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Wrong. Whites do that.

 

[IM2]

So now the second amendment is only the right of whites.

 

[WinterBorn]

As much as I am against gun control, I do believe criminals (those with records) shouldn't be free to buy guns. Their records should be public information, and available to gun sellers.

This wasn't the case with Nicolas Cruz, the Parkland Massacre killer, whose criminal activity was covered up, due to Obama's "Promise Program". Gun sellers, unable to see the Cruz background dirt, freely sold him the guns he used to kill 17 people.

So now we have many young minorities with criminal backgrounds, impervious to background checks. Where do we go from here ? Hopefully, not to more Parkland shootings.

I am 100% pro-gun and firmly believe that the Second Amendment gives us the right to own firearms. But...minorities being allowed to purchase firearms....absolutely NOT! I have no problem with youths learning the use of them at firing ranges and on farms, so that should someone with evil intent breaks into their home, they can defend themselves with the firearm, rather than become a victim. But, to go out and be able to just up and buy a gun is absurd. The pre-frontal cortex (reason and rational thinking) isn't fully developed in young people until after their teen years, so it's best to have some restrictions in place on them.

Looking back at my post, I see a gross misspelling which completely alters the tone to a darker racist one which is wrong. While typing I misspelled minors and typed minorities. Sorry about that. Any and all minorities that are not criminals can indeed purchase firearms, unless they are MINORS.

As well as those who ARE criminals, with a criminal record, if they are/were in schools utilizing the Promise Program.

The Promise Program only effects students with misdemeanor records. And, other than Domestic Abuse, no misdemeanor records prevent the purchase of a firearm.

I wrote a series of OPs on the Promise Program, but they were quite a while ago. I'll look it over again over the next few days + Florida firearm laws.

And how do you know about Florida law, when you live in Georgia ?

I have lived in Florida. Also, the background checks are a federal program.

 

[Kilroy2]

Still there is a federal law that bans those who have been convicted of certain crimes from ever possessing firearms which does include domestic violence offenses.

Texas, Under Texas state law a convicted felon may possess a firearm in the residence, in which he lives, once five years have elapsed from the date his sentence was discharged. This means the later of release from prison or parole. This is not true under federal law.


Montana is considered a restorative state, meaning under the Montana Constitution, felons who have completed their sentences and probationary periods have their rights restored — and technically can do things that regular citizens do, including possess a firearm and vote

Alaska - Ten years after completing felony probation, the state no longer bans felons from possessing firearms.
Alaska has no waiting period for the purchase of a handgun, rifle or shotgun. There is no requirement to register any firearm with the state of Alaska.

yet State laws say differently

But with Obama's Promise Program, young minorities like Nicolas Cruz can buy guns ANYTIME, with gun sellers unaware of their criminal background.

Liberal Obama supporters cry out for background checks, but then say nothing when their hero devises a program obliterating these checks, and one of the kids protected, goes out and shoots 34 people, killing 17 of them.

Sorry you just reading to many right wing sites. The program that you referred to was being pushed as an obama initiative but in reality it was a local program

Broward County, Florida program called PROMISE (Preventing Recidivism Through Opportunities, Mentoring, Interventions, Support and Education.) PROMISE was begun in 2013 by the Broward County School District and Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale; it is an intervention program for student behavior that would otherwise prompt a suspension, expulsion or arrest

this program was a local initiative and did not involve federal agencies or Obama

I am sure OB welcome the local initiative as an intervention for trouble youth but it was hardly a federal program and had nothing to do with OB

But that doesn't stop right wing from tying the two together to make some statement

Also if I remember correctly Cruz had already left school and as soon as he was of age and able to buy a gun , he did get a gun

look at Florida state laws which allow 18 year old kids to possess fire arms

1. The program originated from Obama. You create it, you own it.

2. Doesn't matter if Cruz out of school. Point is the PP kept his bad record hidden from gun sellers, in school or not.

PROMISE Program Getting Very Little Press

Parkland Parents Mad About the PROMISE Program-Look To Oust School Board

Overseer of Broward Schools' PROMISE Program Getting Big Rai$e

What Punishment for PROMISE Program leaders ?

well how did OB create it, its repeated but know says specifically how he created it when it well know that it was a local initiative

what law or executive order are you referring to

Congress makes laws not the president

well if you do not believe me how about Laura Ingrham

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS: Broward's broken PROMISE program and its deadly effects. That's the focus of tonight's angle.

The more we learn about the school shooting in Florida, the more it appears that a Broward County invention may have played a role in what happened. And what am I talking about?

In 2013, Broward County and their new school superintendent, Robert Runcie had a novel idea. Lower school expulsions and arrests by reducing police involvement. Sounds simple. They called it the PROMISE Program -- Preventing Recidivism through Opportunities, Mentoring, Intervention, Support, and Education. It's quite an acronym.

quoted from a fox source
and if you can't believe fox who can you believe if your a repub

it wasn't an OB initiative but he like the idea and supported it

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Because it is in the Constitution?

So anyone convicted of a violent crime using a firearm should be allowed to own guns?

That may be what you meant but that that is not what you said. Do you want to keep guns away from anyone convicted of a violent crime using a firearm or from minorities no matter what their criminal record since they commit most of the violent crimes in America?

I'm using the same logic as the left. A lot of restrictions have been put on the second amendment, the vast majority of them by the left, and the vast majority of them aimed at law abiding citizens. Dems like to use the argument of "potential crimes" and "predisposition to criminal behavior" based on statistics and anything else they can cite. The one thing they always conspicuously leave out, however, is the gun violence in the black community. I'm pointing out their inconsistencies and hypocrisy. If they were consistent in their logic they would be against blacks being allowed to own firearms but that would not serve them well politically, which is what is important to them. But just to be clear, I support the second amendment for ALL legal citizens (except the ones who like to kill people).

The Racist Roots of Gun Control

Before the Civil War, the great anti-slavery writer Lysander Spooner used the Second Amendment to argue that slavery was unconstitutional. Since a slave is a person who cannot possess arms, and the Second Amendment guarantees that all persons can possess arms, no person in the United States, therefore, can be a slave. “The right of a man ‘to keep and bear arms,’ is a right palpably inconsistent with the idea of his being a slave,” Spooner wrote.

On the other hand, in the infamous Dred Scott decision, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney announced that free blacks were not citizens; if they were, he warned, free blacks would have the right “to keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

Immediately after the Civil War, Southern states enacted Black Codes, designed to keep the ex-slaves in de facto slavery and submission. Mississippi’s provision was typical: No freedman “shall keep or carry fire-arms of any kind, or any ammunition” without police permission. In areas where the Ku Klux Klan took control, “almost universally the first thing done was to disarm the negroes and leave them defenseless,” recounted the civil rights attorney Albion Tourgée, who represented Plessy in Plessy v. Ferguson. The Ku Klux Klan was America’s first gun control group, as well as America’s first domestic terrorist organization.

Congress responded with the Freedman’s Bureau Act, insisting that “the constitutional right to bear arms, shall be secured to and enjoyed by all the citizens.” Congress followed up with the Civil Rights Act, and the Fourteenth Amendment, to ensure that no state could ever again violate the civil rights of Americans.

Repeatedly the congressional proponents of the Fourteenth Amendment announced that a key purpose of the Amendment was to guarantee that freedmen could exercise their Second Amendment right to own guns for self-defense, especially against gun control organizations such as the KKK. Senator Samuel Pomeroy (R-Kan.) explained the three “indispensable” “safeguards of liberty under our form of government”: the sanctity of the home; the right to vote; and “the right to bear arms…[so] if the cabin door of the freedman is broken open and the intruder enters…then should a well-loaded musket be in the hand of the occupant to send the polluted wretch to another world.”

Reconstruction and the Fourteenth Amendment forced Southern states to repeal laws explicitly forbidding blacks to have guns. So the white supremacist legislature in Tennessee enacted the 1871 “Army and Navy” law, barring the sale of any handguns except the “Army and Navy model.” The ex-Confederate soldiers already had their high-quality Army and Navy guns. But cash-poor freedmen could barely afford lower-cost, simpler firearms not of the Army and Navy quality.

Many Southern states followed Tennessee’s lead, with facially neutral laws banning inexpensive guns, or requiring permits to own or carry a gun. As one Florida judge explained, the laws were “passed for the purpose of disarming the negro laborers . . . [and] never intended to be applied to the white population.” (Watson v. Stone, Florida, 1941).

Jim Crow laws became the foundation of gun control in America. These laws spread north in the early decades of the twentieth century, aimed primarily at immigrants (Italians and Jews in New York City) or labor agitators (California), or in response to blacks having defended themselves against race riots (Missouri and Michigan).

In the 1950s and 1960s, a new civil rights movement arose in the South. White supremacist tactics were just as violent as they had been during Reconstruction. Blacks and civil rights workers armed for self-defense.

John Salter, a professor at Tougaloo College and chief organizer of the NAACP’s Jackson Movement during the early 1960s, wrote, “No one knows what kind of massive racist retaliation would have been directed against grass-roots black people had the black community not had a healthy measure of firearms within it.”

Civil rights professionals and the black community generally viewed nonviolence as a useful tactic for certain situations, not as a moral injunction to let oneself be murdered on a deserted road in the middle of the night. As the 1959 NAACP national convention resolved, “We do not deny but reaffirm the right of individual and collective self-defense against unlawful assaults.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., agreed, supporting violence “exercised in self-defense,” which he described “as moral and legal” in all societies; he noted that not even Gandhi condemned it.

This piece has been adapted from The Truth About Gun Control by David B. Kopel.
Encounter Books is an activity of Encounter for Culture and Education, a tax-exempt, non-profit corporation dedicated to strengthening the marketplace of ideas.
​

 

[S.J.]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Wrong. Whites do that.

Blacks are 13% of the population and commit over 50% of the violent crimes. Deal with it.

 

[Montrovant]

Let me make sure I'm understanding the premise here. You don't want people with criminal records to be able to buy guns (What sort of criminal record, by the way? You don't specify), so you think young minorities should be prevented from buying guns? Is that it?

What's so hard ? Read the TITLE of the OP.

I just want to confirm what you're trying to say before I comment. It's a bit hard to understand why, if your problem is with criminals buying guns, you'd limit a ban to young minorities. It makes it seem that you are really concerned with minorities rather than criminals.

That's not taking into account the absurdity of the idea that one might successfully ban only minorities from owning guns, of course.

Did you read the OP ? Never comment in a thread without reading the OP, and understanding it fully.

All that you're asking about is in the OP (Promise Program , Nicolas Cruz, etc).

Yes, I read the OP. I also read the title you made for the thread. The OP doesn't explain why you'd want to specifically prevent young minorities from owning guns, rather than just criminals. And of course, the thread title doesn't mention criminals at all, just young minorities. So again, I'm trying to clarify what you're saying. Do you oppose young minorities being able to purchase guns? Do you only oppose criminals being able to purchase guns? Do you think all young minorities are criminals? Is there a reason you seem hesitant to make such clarifications?

You seem to be the only one in this thread having trouble understanding the OP. Maybe you might try a course in reading comprehension.

In the OP very first sentence, I stated that I'm opposed to criminals buying guns. I also stated that due to the Promise Program criminals with crime records are impervious to background checks, because their records are concealed.

So the question then is, since gun sellers cannot determine the backgrounds of PP kids, should all young minorities (the PP designation) be kept from buying guns (in order to stop the criminal, young minorities from buying them.

Or do we want to gamble, with another Parkland massacre as the stakes. Got it ?

OK, so are you saying you only want to prevent minority students in Broward county public schools from purchasing guns? Aren't those the ones who fell under the PROMISE program? Or are you claiming the program is nationwide?

Do you have any evidence that the program not only makes it so that "criminals with crime records are impervious to background checks, because their records are concealed," but that this concealing only happens with minority criminals?

And of course no, you can't prevent people from exercising their second amendment right based on their race or ethnicity.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What in the fuck is wrong with you people? You don't single out a specific group or race and discuss whether or not they should obtain their God-given rights.
INNOCENT UNTIL UNTIL A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED.
PROVEN THE INDIVIDUAL COMMITED THAT CRIME.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Totally!

His finger is on the wrong trigger if he's trying to fire the M203 lol

 

[NoNukes]

As much as I am against gun control, I do believe criminals (those with records) shouldn't be free to buy guns. Their records should be public information, and available to gun sellers.

This wasn't the case with Nicolas Cruz, the Parkland Massacre killer, whose criminal activity was covered up, due to Obama's "Promise Program". Gun sellers, unable to see the Cruz background dirt, freely sold him the guns he used to kill 17 people.

So now we have many young minorities with criminal backgrounds, impervious to background checks. Where do we go from here ? Hopefully, not to more Parkland shootings.

Should young Whites be allowed to buy guns?

 

[protectionist]

I am 100% pro-gun and firmly believe that the Second Amendment gives us the right to own firearms. But...minorities being allowed to purchase firearms....absolutely NOT! I have no problem with youths learning the use of them at firing ranges and on farms, so that should someone with evil intent breaks into their home, they can defend themselves with the firearm, rather than become a victim. But, to go out and be able to just up and buy a gun is absurd. The pre-frontal cortex (reason and rational thinking) isn't fully developed in young people until after their teen years, so it's best to have some restrictions in place on them.

Looking back at my post, I see a gross misspelling which completely alters the tone to a darker racist one which is wrong. While typing I misspelled minors and typed minorities. Sorry about that. Any and all minorities that are not criminals can indeed purchase firearms, unless they are MINORS.

As well as those who ARE criminals, with a criminal record, if they are/were in schools utilizing the Promise Program.

The Promise Program only effects students with misdemeanor records. And, other than Domestic Abuse, no misdemeanor records prevent the purchase of a firearm.

I wrote a series of OPs on the Promise Program, but they were quite a while ago. I'll look it over again over the next few days + Florida firearm laws.

And how do you know about Florida law, when you live in Georgia ?

I have lived in Florida. Also, the background checks are a federal program.

So what ? That doesn't mean that gun sellers can't exercise discretion how they wish

 

[protectionist]

As much as I am against gun control, I do believe criminals (those with records) shouldn't be free to buy guns. Their records should be public information, and available to gun sellers.

This wasn't the case with Nicolas Cruz, the Parkland Massacre killer, whose criminal activity was covered up, due to Obama's "Promise Program". Gun sellers, unable to see the Cruz background dirt, freely sold him the guns he used to kill 17 people.

So now we have many young minorities with criminal backgrounds, impervious to background checks. Where do we go from here ? Hopefully, not to more Parkland shootings.

Should young Whites be allowed to buy guns?

Young whites did not have their criminal records hidden by the Promise Program.

It's necessary to not only read the OP, but to comprehend it as well.

 

[miketx]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Because if they have no record it's unconstitutional.

 

[protectionist]

What in the fuck is wrong with you people? You don't single out a specific group or race and discuss whether or not they should obtain their God-given rights.
INNOCENT UNTIL UNTIL A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED.
PROVEN THE INDIVIDUAL COMMITED THAT CRIME.

Tell OBAMA and his originators of the Promise Program + the Broward County people who accepted and enacted it. They are who singled out minorities, not us "people" in this thread.

We are merely talking about a scenario THEY created, and has existed for about 5 years, and contributed to a mass killing, and could possibly do just that, all over again.

Read the OP before posting. If you did, then you have no excuse.

 

[miketx]

As much as I am against gun control, I do believe criminals (those with records) shouldn't be free to buy guns. Their records should be public information, and available to gun sellers.

This wasn't the case with Nicolas Cruz, the Parkland Massacre killer, whose criminal activity was covered up, due to Obama's "Promise Program". Gun sellers, unable to see the Cruz background dirt, freely sold him the guns he used to kill 17 people.

So now we have many young minorities with criminal backgrounds, impervious to background checks. Where do we go from here ? Hopefully, not to more Parkland shootings.

You've spent your entire life voting for the Nicolas Cruz's of the world to be able to get guns. And you still are.

Notice how these vermin claim to know what people they have never met, never will meet, and do not have any written record of what they have done, claim to know all about them. That's a mental disease for sure.

 

[protectionist]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Because if they have no record it's unconstitutional.

We're talking about young minorities who DO have records (that have been concealed).

 

[miketx]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Because if they have no record it's unconstitutional.

We're talking about young minorities who DO have records (that have been concealed).

Notice that the person I replied to mentioned none of that. Of course criminals should not get guns. But he didn't mention criminals, only minorities.

 

[protectionist]

What's so hard ? Read the TITLE of the OP.

I just want to confirm what you're trying to say before I comment. It's a bit hard to understand why, if your problem is with criminals buying guns, you'd limit a ban to young minorities. It makes it seem that you are really concerned with minorities rather than criminals.

That's not taking into account the absurdity of the idea that one might successfully ban only minorities from owning guns, of course.

Did you read the OP ? Never comment in a thread without reading the OP, and understanding it fully.

All that you're asking about is in the OP (Promise Program , Nicolas Cruz, etc).

Yes, I read the OP. I also read the title you made for the thread. The OP doesn't explain why you'd want to specifically prevent young minorities from owning guns, rather than just criminals. And of course, the thread title doesn't mention criminals at all, just young minorities. So again, I'm trying to clarify what you're saying. Do you oppose young minorities being able to purchase guns? Do you only oppose criminals being able to purchase guns? Do you think all young minorities are criminals? Is there a reason you seem hesitant to make such clarifications?

You seem to be the only one in this thread having trouble understanding the OP. Maybe you might try a course in reading comprehension.

In the OP very first sentence, I stated that I'm opposed to criminals buying guns. I also stated that due to the Promise Program criminals with crime records are impervious to background checks, because their records are concealed.

So the question then is, since gun sellers cannot determine the backgrounds of PP kids, should all young minorities (the PP designation) be kept from buying guns (in order to stop the criminal, young minorities from buying them.

Or do we want to gamble, with another Parkland massacre as the stakes. Got it ?

OK, so are you saying you only want to prevent minority students in Broward county public schools from purchasing guns? Aren't those the ones who fell under the PROMISE program? Or are you claiming the program is nationwide?

Do you have any evidence that the program not only makes it so that "criminals with crime records are impervious to background checks, because their records are concealed," but that this concealing only happens with minority criminals?

And of course no, you can't prevent people from exercising their second amendment right based on their race or ethnicity.

Obviously you don't have even a basic understanding of this thread or its subject matter. The Promise Program only applies to minority schoolkids with criminal records.

As for "based on their race or ethnicity", that came from the Obamans, when they created the Promise Program.

Always remember, US governments first duty is to PROTECT the American people, not moan about "can't do". If minorities were prevented from buying guns, it would be because their records are concealed, not because they are minorities, per se (which I happen to be one myself, incidentally)

 

[IM2]

Minorities, as a percentage, commit most of the violent crimes in America. That is a fact. Why let them have guns?

Wrong. Whites do that.

Blacks are 13% of the population and commit over 50% of the violent crimes. Deal with it.

You keep repeating an untrue comment that is debunked by the Uniform Crime Reports on an annual basis you fucking white idiot. Whites commit 60 percent of the violent crime and 70 percent of all crime. Deal with the truth white boy.