Should Western Ukraine become a NATO protectorate?

[alexa]

First, Putin has made it very clear and very public that he intends to reestablish the Russian (or Soviet) empire. That's no secret. So stop trying to pretnd tha Putin is some peaceful non-agressor. Even he does not make that claim.

Second here's an article about Russian-NATO talks jus before Putin invaded Ukriane.

If you need any more info, google it yourself:

NATO-Russia Talks: Deep Divides Remain After Russia-NATO Talks on Ukraine Crisis (Published 2022)

With about 100,000 Russian troops poised near Ukraine’s borders, high-stakes talks this week are aimed at averting a deepening conflict.

www.nytimes.com

This problem comes from the US going against its promise before the reunification of Germany that NATO would move no further than Germany, That is why they agreed to it. The US however was very keen to sign them all up. Russia kept asking them to stop. When the US told them Georgia and Ukraine would soon be part of NATO, Russia told them this would result in them getting involved. The US has never liked Russia. It appears to be unable to let go of its fantasies and get to know people. This was the US looking for a reason to get rid of its rival.

The US then got involved in Ukraine, its political process, the ousting of its PM, telling Ukraine which MP should go where, giving them military lessons and plenty of weapons. The UK was involved in plenty of this, particularly military training. The US had been providing Ukraine with weapons to fight people of Russian descent in the East for 8 years. That fighting was getting wilder before Putin came in.

Now, Putin may have decided to be bravado and start saying he was going to take back all these countries but the reason for that was because the US was unable to keep its words and acted in a way which they knew Russia found threatening.

Your article was on a paywall. If that is an article about Russia's talks just before fighting begins then I think it is unlikely to carry much truth. You do not know what happened, Thought as much.

 

[Baron]

No, they weren't. The vast majority of Germans wanted revenge for WWI. Hitler was a god to them.

Who said it?
Do you know anyone refusing military service deceived death punishment immediately?

 

[gipper]

This problem comes from the US going against its promise before the reunification of Germany that NATO would move no further than Germany, That is why they agreed to it. The US however was very keen to sign them all up. Russia kept asking them to stop. When the US told them Georgia and Ukraine would soon be part of NATO, Russia told them this would result in them getting involved. The US has never liked Russia. It appears to be unable to let go of its fantasies and get to know people. This was the US looking for a reason to get rid of its rival.

The US then got involved in Ukraine, its political process, the ousting of its PM, telling Ukraine which MP should go where, giving them military lessons and plenty of weapons. The UK was involved in plenty of this, particularly military training. The US had been providing Ukraine with weapons to fight people of Russian descent in the East for 8 years. That fighting was getting wilder before Putin came in.

Now, Putin may have decided to be bravado and start saying he was going to take back all these countries but the reason for that was because the US was unable to keep its words and acted in a way which they knew Russia found threatening.

Your article was on a paywall. If that is an article about Russia's talks just before fighting begins then I think it is unlikely to carry much truth. You do not know what happened, Thought as much.

Here is good news. Hopefully a movement in Europe to terminate NATO takes hold.

 

[AntonToo]

They're not going to back down.

Been backing down just fine for the last two months.

 

[gipper]

Been backing down just fine for the last two months.

Yeah they’re firing all those missiles into Ukraine that western media claimed they had exhausted.

 

[AntonToo]

Yeah they’re firing all those missiles into Ukraine that western media claimed they had exhausted.

You have no idea what you are saying.

Russians used up their most accurate arsenal, now they just throw in whatever they have, including S-300s land-to-air missles to hit ground targets.

They don't care it's not accurate, goal is to terrorise civilians.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Since Russia is sending a new army into Belarus to threaten Western Ukraine from the North, I think that NATO should declare all of Ukraine west of the Dnieper river to be a NATO protectorate.

The new Russian Army locating in Belarus does not have to be effective as far as combat capabilities nor even try to invade Ukraine, but it will force the Ukrainians to reposition considerable forces back near Kyiv - removing them from the fight in eastern Ukraine.

By declaring western Ukraine as a NATO protectorate, NATO forces could move into western Ukraine and nuetralize any threat from Belarus. Their presence would prevent further terrorist missile & drone attacks against Ukrainian civilian targets. They could control the skies over western Ukraine and shorten the supply & support lines between NATO and Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine.

Russia is already depleted. It's doubtful that Russia would atke any action against NATO forces in Ukraine. It would shorten this war.

Absolutely not

 

[gipper]

You have no idea what you are saying.

Russians used up their most accurate arsenal, now they just throw in whatever they have, including S-300s land-to-air missles to hit ground targets.

They don't care it's not accurate, goal is to terrorise civilians.

Yeah sure. How do you know? Did CNN tell you?

 

[gipper]

You have no idea what you are saying.

Russians used up their most accurate arsenal, now they just throw in whatever they have, including S-300s land-to-air missles to hit ground targets.

They don't care it's not accurate, goal is to terrorise civilians.

Have you ever heard the name John Mearsheimer? He said the following in 2015…do you understand what he said?


“What we’re encouraging is for the Ukrainians to play tough with the Russians. We’re encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the West, ‘because we will ultimately defeat Putin and we will ultimately get our way. Time is on our side.’ And of course, the Ukrainians are playing along with this. The Ukrainians are almost totally unwilling to compromise with the Russians, and instead, want to pursue a hardline policy. As I said before, if they do that, the end result is the country’s going to be wrecked. What we’re doing is, in fact, encouraging that outcome … It would be in our interest to bury this crisis as quickly as possible.”


Much more at the link but you’ll want to be informed, and we both know you don’t.
Western Experts Warned for Years that Adding Ukraine to NATO Was a Bad Idea

 

[gipper]

You have no idea what you are saying.

Russians used up their most accurate arsenal, now they just throw in whatever they have, including S-300s land-to-air missles to hit ground targets.

They don't care it's not accurate, goal is to terrorise civilians.

Z is unhinged just like you. Like you he too wants WWIII.

 

[gipper]

You have no idea what you are saying.

Russians used up their most accurate arsenal, now they just throw in whatever they have, including S-300s land-to-air missles to hit ground targets.

They don't care it's not accurate, goal is to terrorise civilians.

Zelensky has miscalculated, badly, because none of the internationalist players involved in propping up Kiev actually care about Ukraine. If they truly did care about Ukraine, they would seek a cessation to hostilities. Instead, the direct opposite is happening, and Ukraine has become the new gold mine for the military industrial cartel.

If only you understood this.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why not try diplomacy instead. Find out what they really want and why and see if you can provide it. The end of this scenario is everyone wins.

Putin has told us what he wants. He wants the old Russian Empire restored and the Warsaw Pact nations returned to being Russian satellites under Moscow’s control. The end of that scenario is that everybody but Putin and his kleptocratic oligarch friends lose.

 

[AntonToo]

Putin has told us what he wants. He wants the old Russian Empire restored and the Warsaw Pact nations returned to being Russian satellites under Moscow’s control. The end of that scenario is that everybody but Putin and his kleptocratic oligarch friends lose.

What he wants and what he thinks he can achieve are two different things, it's an open question what he would be willing to settle for once his army gets fully broken in eastern Ukraine and Russian economy gets to the point of undeniable collapse.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The same situation was in Germany 1941 - 1945
Most of Germans were against the war but was forced to fight by Nazis

Most of the German people were in favor of the war and enthusiastically supported Adolph until the RAF and USAAF gutted their cities. Up until 1944, Germans fully supported the war. The real Nazis were always a minority like the real communist party members were a minority in the USSR.

 

[AntonToo]

Most of the German people were in favor of the war and enthusiastically supported Adolph until the RAF and USAAF gutted their cities. Up until 1944, Germans fully supported the war. The real Nazis were always a minority like the real communist party members were a minority in the USSR.

Worse - it took almost 30 years, a whole generation, for German people to really internalize and admit shame about the atrocities they've commited without asterisks and rationalizations.

There is no reason to think that the shame about invasion of Ukraine will be broadly internalized by Russian people anytime soon.

 

[Richard-H]

This problem comes from the US going against its promise before the reunification of Germany that NATO would move no further than Germany, That is why they agreed to it. The US however was very keen to sign them all up. Russia kept asking them to stop. When the US told them Georgia and Ukraine would soon be part of NATO, Russia told them this would result in them getting involved. The US has never liked Russia. It appears to be unable to let go of its fantasies and get to know people. This was the US looking for a reason to get rid of its rival.

The US then got involved in Ukraine, its political process, the ousting of its PM, telling Ukraine which MP should go where, giving them military lessons and plenty of weapons. The UK was involved in plenty of this, particularly military training. The US had been providing Ukraine with weapons to fight people of Russian descent in the East for 8 years. That fighting was getting wilder before Putin came in.

Now, Putin may have decided to be bravado and start saying he was going to take back all these countries but the reason for that was because the US was unable to keep its words and acted in a way which they knew Russia found threatening.

Your article was on a paywall. If that is an article about Russia's talks just before fighting begins then I think it is unlikely to carry much truth. You do not know what happened, Thought as much.

It's Russia's fault that all its neighbors are scared of Russia and wanted to join NATO. NATO didn't force itself on these countries the way Russia is trying to force itself upon Ukraine.

Why does Russia need such a huge military? NATO is a defensive agreement. There is NO agreement between NATO members to ever launch an offensive military action against Russia. NATO consists of 25 independent countries - there is no way that all 25 countries would agree to an offensive action against Russia.

I know that it's hard for you Russians to conceive of anything other than dictatorships, but the U.S. President does not have the authority to launch an offensive attack against Russia. The ONLY way NATO could ever be in a war with Russia is if Russia starts the war. Try reading the NATO charter.

If things were so bad for Russian Ukrainians, why is half the Ukrainian army made up of Russian Ukrainians?

Putin has long ago made it clear that he intends to restore the Russian empire. All else that you've been told about the reasons for the invasion of Ukraine are nothing but Putin's propaganda.

The fact is that NATO was in diplomatic talks with Putin when Putin invaded Ukraine.

Another fact is that all NATO countries asked to become members of NATO because they wanted to be members of NATO. The U.S. did not invade these countries.

None of these countries want to be part of or under the control of Russia. They've suffered through Russian rule before, and they DO NOT WANT THE RUSSIANS BACK!

Russians can only blame themselves for that.

 

[ESay]

Doesn't make sense. What would be far more meaningful is setting up a no-fly zone over Ukraine. But this step is far too much for many in NATO.

 

[gipper]

Doesn't make sense. What would be far more meaningful is setting up a no-fly zone over Ukraine. But this step is far too much for many in NATO.

But not for a Nazi warmonger like you.

 

[xyz]

A protectorate is a bad idea. It would bring NATO straight into the war, plus it would split up Ukraine.

Why be afraid of the Belorussian Army? At least half of them would be on the side of Ukraine.

 

[ESay]

But not for a Nazi warmonger like you.

The Korea scenario is an answer, silly boy.