Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

[toobfreak]

Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

Edge, why don't you try it out, pay 70% of your income in federal taxes (not counting state, local and sales tax) and let us know how it works out for you?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Even with extremely low unemployment the rich have figured out how to not increase wages. The workers are getting hosed.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4231615-november-2018-median-household-income

 

[Natural Citizen]

Even with extremely low unemployment the rich have figured out how to not increase wages. The workers are getting hosed.

It's the monetary policy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To me, comparing them to others -- saying they are the top 1% or that they own half the country-- is totally beside the point. The point is they earned that money and taking even half of it away just like that is outrageous. Why would you continue to live or work somewhere that robs you of over half your lawful earnings like that? NO WONDER PEOPLE CHEAT ON THEIR TAXES!
I'll ask you something, Lesh. What gives us the right to take that much money away from another citizen? To me, saying "he can afford it," is a nonanswer. It seems to me that destroys any incentive to either (1) work hard to build more success or (2) to live here.

Do you not understand that "the money" has to come from somewhere???

Should it come from people who can barely pay their minimum bills...or from those who the system has made wealthy beyond any reasonable way to spend that wealth?

Maybe the government shouldn't spend more money than it can fairly tax its citizens? I am still not able to buy in to this Robin Hood theory. It's too communist for my taste. We are a capitalist society ingrained with the idea that we have the potential to become wealthy through our own hard work and initiative. The government should not have the right to take half of it or more just because they are successful. I have never completely understood why we give so much of our money to the federal government so that it can turn around and dole it back to the states. I can understand the military being taxed that way and federal law enforcement like the FBI and the Intelligence services, but not a lot else.

.
What a total bunch of bullshit. Most people that live at or below the poverty level work, and work damn harder than I do, or you do for that matter. Sure, education is the ticket out. My six kids demonstrate that in spades. But a quality education is expensive. People living at the poverty level sometimes devote forty percent or more of their income to support one college student, and that is WITH financial aid and loans. Our system is fubared. Every year we LOSE more great minds than can ever be delivered by the "one percent". Hell, Donald Trump is a shining example of why elitism is a failure. I mean they say he avoids rainstorms because of his hair but I think it is because he is as dumb as a turkey and would drown in one.

Education, in a real college that is teaching how to make a living may be the answer, or getting skills through the trades can be for others. But liberal arts, doesnt get you much except a barista at Starbucks...At least SB is now contributing to that education...

Education is not entirely about getting a job. I detest the fact that our government has been pushing that idea for the past decade.

Do you think people should get their social security checks? Medicare insurance? Medicaid? What about paying down the interest on the national debt and Veterans Benefits. Then yes there is the Military. That right there is over 80% of government spending.

View attachment 242270

What is "Labor" included with Social Security and Unemployment?

That I couldn't tell you. I only posted it to show we are not spending 80% of our budget on the military. Our budget today is over 4 trillion dollars, and we are not spending 3 trillion a year on military. That much I know.

 

[Brain357]

Even with extremely low unemployment the rich have figured out how to not increase wages. The workers are getting hosed.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4231615-november-2018-median-household-income

Yeah it's about at inflation. Your point? If your wages increase by 3% and inflation increases at 3% can you buy more?

 

[Brain357]

Even with extremely low unemployment the rich have figured out how to not increase wages. The workers are getting hosed.

It's the monetary policy.

The workers aren't controlling monetary policy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well if you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection. However the top 20% of wage earners in this country pay 70% of all collected income taxes. If that's not enough, then how much should the top 20% be paying? Also out of that number, the top 1% are paying over 40% of all income taxes collected.

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

When the rich are hoarding all the wealth there is not other choice.

There is no "the wealth" and never was. We do not live in a bubble where only so much money is around, and if one takes too much, that leaves too little for everybody else.

Money in the US is infinite. You can make as much as you want. Nobody is stopping you. Until the day comes where I go to a bank for a loan, and they tell me I can't have one because the rich have all the money, or I can't get a raise because my boss tells me the same, then the wealth really doesn't exist.

If we took half of all the money away from rich people, it doesn't benefit you one iota. All it does is give government more money to spend.

So for most of us wages have been stagnant for years while the rich keep getting richer. Yeah you don't seem to know what you are talking about. Sounds like some rich guy duped you again.

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

 

[Brain357]

Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

Edge, why don't you try it out, pay 70% of your income in federal taxes (not counting state, local and sales tax) and let us know how it works out for you?

Aren't the politicians suggesting 70% for what you earn over 10 million? I doubt it would effect edge, or the vast majority of us.

 

[Brain357]

When the rich are hoarding all the wealth there is not other choice.

There is no "the wealth" and never was. We do not live in a bubble where only so much money is around, and if one takes too much, that leaves too little for everybody else.

Money in the US is infinite. You can make as much as you want. Nobody is stopping you. Until the day comes where I go to a bank for a loan, and they tell me I can't have one because the rich have all the money, or I can't get a raise because my boss tells me the same, then the wealth really doesn't exist.

If we took half of all the money away from rich people, it doesn't benefit you one iota. All it does is give government more money to spend.

So for most of us wages have been stagnant for years while the rich keep getting richer. Yeah you don't seem to know what you are talking about. Sounds like some rich guy duped you again.

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

You mean they mostly work with politicians to get monopolies and hose the consumer and worker. You live in the past Ray, that's just not how things work now. This isn't free market capitalism. Workers are hosed with non-competes and companies collude to hold down wages. Sad state of affairs.

Does Monopoly Power Explain Workers’ Stagnant Wages?
Apple and Google settle antitrust lawsuit over hiring collusion charges

What you say would be true in a free market capitalist economy, but that is not what we have. And you are a big supporter of corporate welfare so you should know it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is no "the wealth" and never was. We do not live in a bubble where only so much money is around, and if one takes too much, that leaves too little for everybody else.

Money in the US is infinite. You can make as much as you want. Nobody is stopping you. Until the day comes where I go to a bank for a loan, and they tell me I can't have one because the rich have all the money, or I can't get a raise because my boss tells me the same, then the wealth really doesn't exist.

If we took half of all the money away from rich people, it doesn't benefit you one iota. All it does is give government more money to spend.

So for most of us wages have been stagnant for years while the rich keep getting richer. Yeah you don't seem to know what you are talking about. Sounds like some rich guy duped you again.

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

You mean they mostly work with politicians to get monopolies and hose the consumer and worker. You live in the past Ray, that's just not how things work now. This isn't free market capitalism. Workers are hosed with non-competes and companies collude to hold down wages. Sad state of affairs.

Does Monopoly Power Explain Workers’ Stagnant Wages?
Apple and Google settle antitrust lawsuit over hiring collusion charges

What you say would be true in a free market capitalist economy, but that is not what we have. And you are a big supporter of corporate welfare so you should know it.

And by corporate welfare you mean what, letting them keep more of the money they made?

Your worth to an employer is determined by how much it would cost him to replace you. That's it.

If you have a job for $15.00 per hour, demand a raise and are refused, you leave the company. Now if your employer can't find anybody to do the same quality of work as you for $15.00 an hour, and has to increase his offer, you were underpaid. If he can replace you for the same wage, your worth was just about right. If he can find somebody to do the job for $13.00 an hour, you were overpaid.

Oh, but those evil companies. Don't they understand people have families to feed? That's not their problem, that's your problem. If you don't make enough money, then you do something to make your labor more valuable.

 

[toobfreak]

Should the United States go back to a top federal tax rate of 70%?

Edge, why don't you try it out, pay 70% of your income in federal taxes (not counting state, local and sales tax) and let us know how it works out for you?

Aren't the politicians suggesting 70% for what you earn over 10 million? I doubt it would effect edge, or the vast majority of us.

Why should it affect anyone? Why don't you earn 10 million first then tell us if you think it is fair?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

That's not fair to the people who are the wealthiest. 70% !!!!! Way more than half their income going to the government? That is obscene.

Really?

The top 1% own half the country. You don't think they

A. Can't afford it

B. Shouldn't have to pay something approaching equivalency for that?

To me, comparing them to others -- saying they are the top 1% or that they own half the country-- is totally beside the point. The point is they earned that money and taking even half of it away just like that is outrageous. Why would you continue to live or work somewhere that robs you of over half your lawful earnings like that? NO WONDER PEOPLE CHEAT ON THEIR TAXES!
I'll ask you something, Lesh. What gives us the right to take that much money away from another citizen? To me, saying "he can afford it," is a nonanswer. It seems to me that destroys any incentive to either (1) work hard to build more success or (2) to live here.

Do you not understand that "the money" has to come from somewhere???

Should it come from people who can barely pay their minimum bills...or from those who the system has made wealthy beyond any reasonable way to spend that wealth?

Maybe the government shouldn't spend more money than it can fairly tax its citizens? I am still not able to buy in to this Robin Hood theory. It's too communist for my taste. We are a capitalist society ingrained with the idea that we have the potential to become wealthy through our own hard work and initiative. The government should not have the right to take half of it or more just because they are successful. I have never completely understood why we give so much of our money to the federal government so that it can turn around and dole it back to the states. I can understand the military being taxed that way and federal law enforcement like the FBI and the Intelligence services, but not a lot else.

.

Ronald Reagan oversaw several changes to the tax code that greatly accelerated wealth inequality and inflated executive compensation. First, stock options, which are the largest portion of executive compensation, were no longer required to be expensed by the company. They don't even have to report them on their balance sheet. Say Company A gives their executive 100,000 options to buy the stock at ten bucks. If the stock is sitting at 20 bucks at the close of the fiscal year the company has a one million dollar liability. Before Reagan, they would have to report that on their balance sheet. After Reagan, they didn't.

Then there are accounting firms certifying a companies financial reports. Prior to Reagan if an accounting firm certified results that turned out to be inaccurate they could be held liable for ALL the misstatement. After Reagan, only a small portion. The end result, prior to Reagan maybe a handful of companies would restate their earnings. After Reagan, well it numbers in the hundreds.

Then there are corporate stock buybacks. Prior to Reagan they were considered artificial manipulation of the stock price and were illegal under almost all circumstances. Now, well it is Katy bar the door, and it is common practice.

The first step in slowing the continued increase in wealth inequality is to change those three things back to the way they were. The second step is to do what Reagan actually supported, tax earned and unearned income the same. The third step is to increase the marginal tax rate on the top ten percent of taxpayers. Step four is to revoke Trumps corporate tax cut and honestly, increase the corporate tax rate to somewhere around forty percent.

Increased wealth inequality, a wildly fluctuating stock market, stagnant wages, they are all signs that our low tax rates are not encouraging investing, they are encouraging speculation and rent-seeking. It is past time that we restructured the tax code to encourage real investing and eliminate rent seeking behavior.

You do know that wealth inequality is because you lazy ass fuckers dont get off your welfare asses and get a job. I used to be a minimum wage puke when I was 18 but got skills given to me by God and was able to go to Saudi Arabia and make a small fortune all tax free. Or you can keep being a victim of liberalism and stay poor and yes my income will increase while your stays the same.

What a total bunch of bullshit. Most people that live at or below the poverty level work, and work damn harder than I do, or you do for that matter. Sure, education is the ticket out. My six kids demonstrate that in spades. But a quality education is expensive. People living at the poverty level sometimes devote forty percent or more of their income to support one college student, and that is WITH financial aid and loans. Our system is fubared. Every year we LOSE more great minds than can ever be delivered by the "one percent". Hell, Donald Trump is a shining example of why elitism is a failure. I mean they say he avoids rainstorms because of his hair but I think it is because he is as dumb as a turkey and would drown in one.

Education, in a real college that is teaching how to make a living may be the answer, or getting skills through the trades can be for others. But liberal arts, doesnt get you much except a barista at Starbucks...At least SB is now contributing to that education...

Education is not entirely about getting a job. I detest the fact that our government has been pushing that idea for the past decade.

Do you think people should get their social security checks? Medicare insurance? Medicaid? What about paying down the interest on the national debt and Veterans Benefits. Then yes there is the Military. That right there is over 80% of government spending.

What’s Missing in the War on Poverty? - Spotlight on Poverty and Opportunity

This year the federal, state, and local governments will spend close to a combined $1 trillion to fund more than 100 separate anti-poverty programs. In fact, since Lyndon Johnson declared “war on poverty” in 1965, government efforts to fight poverty have cost more than $23 trillion.

Why do the liberal pricks always say Social Security is going bankrupt, but not welfare. Why should I have to pay for another persons medical bills when I have my own and families to take care of. Because the liberals know that you fuckers dont work and will vote for the very people who keep your sorry ass poor.. Stop welfare put the 1 trillion dollars a year for welfare into the budget and in 15 years no more debt, more people would be working, thus increasing taxes and no more poverty....

 

[danielpalos]

Again, the best top federal tax rate is that number which does not hurt economic growth and maximizes tax revenue collection for the government. Many economist think that special sweet rate is as high as 85%. The Rich are still motivated to work despite the higher rate, the economy still grows, and you get far better revenue collection for the government to balance the budget and pay for important things like the military.

Some think that number is 70% or 60%. I tend to favor the 60% number, but realize it may be higher. Its certainly higher than the 35% to 42% rates of the last quarter century.

Okay, let's go with 60%. Then add in other taxes, and it's more like 75%. Would you work and invest your money (which is always at high risk of being lost) for only 25% of what you made? Most people wouldn't do that.

Wealthy people didn't get that way by letting everybody else take their money. If you increase their taxes by only 5%, it's going to have some negative effect. It's going to cost somebody other than the wealthy guy because he finds ways to recoup that money. Ten fold if taxes were ever that high.

AGAIN, the top federal tax rate from 1945 to 1980 was ALWAYS above 70% EVERY YEAR! The rich worked just as hard if not harder back then given that average GDP growth per year was much higher in those years, 1945-1980, than it has been since the year 2000.

The top federal tax rate was only 28% in 1990. Then Bush and Clinton increased the top federal rate to 40% by 1995! The rich did not flee or stop working. The economy took off!

WE KNOW WE CAN RAISE THE TOP FEDERAL RATE MUCH HIGHER BECAUSE THE TOP FEDERAL HAS ALREADY BEEN THAT HIGH IN THE PAST WITHOUT ANY OF THE CONSEQUENCES YOU ALLEGE!

Those were different times my friend. There were few places to move companies and still be able to conduct business in the US. That's not the case today. However businesses still moved out during the 70's and kept moving out afterwards.

You see the results of increased taxes on the rich in places like California and New York. The rich people are packing their bags and heading for higher grounds. When states or cities try to get new businesses to move there, or expand businesses, they offer tax incentives like abatements and do so because they work. Here we were able to land two new Amazon facilities using abatements. They took deserted malls, leveled them, built state of the art facilities, and created hundreds of jobs.

Moving to avoid state and local taxes is one thing, moving out of the country to avoid federal taxes is another. Nearly all the other first world countries have much higher tax rates than the United States so the rich would be improving their situation by moving. Yes they could move to a third world country, but most will not take that risk.

Again, why not move to Somalia since you think taxes and government are such bad things?

Once again, I never said that.

However when it comes to the federal government, our Constitution states what our federal government is for. It says nothing about the dozens and dozens of social programs we have. It says nothing about foreign aid. It says nothing about cash for clunkers.

The problem is not revenue, the problem is spending.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution that grants Congress the right, of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

better national solutions at lower national cost is what He may have meant.

 

[abu afak]

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

I don't begrudge anyone making any mount of money.
If a Hedge fund Chief routinely makes a $1 Billion a year (the top 20 do on avg).. Good for him.
He's worth it to the investors in the Fund.

But what's he worth to the country?
That's society's/the GOVT's job to parse.

Is he worth as much as or more than 20,000 Math teachers (at 50k) who taught him his trade, and teach millions more every year?
NO.
He doesn't create a product or impart any great knowledge.. he buys low/sells high already extant cos stocks.
So I have No Problem with society/the Govt setting a much higher Tax rate for him than for others.

Warren Buffett, who only bought cos, doesn't know what to do with his money/$80 Bil..
So he's giving 90% of it to the Bill Gates Foundation.
Bill Gates is giving 90% of his fortune to his Foundation too...
Where it will be spend in the Third World improving health and welfare.
(And Gates would have still gone into his garage and created software no matter the Top tax rate)

I'd rather have Taxed that money more heavily and kept it IN the country by Income or Estate Taxes, and the economy would be better off for it getting spent here than piling up in .1%'s pockets.
`

 

[danielpalos]

So for most of us wages have been stagnant for years while the rich keep getting richer. Yeah you don't seem to know what you are talking about. Sounds like some rich guy duped you again.

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

You mean they mostly work with politicians to get monopolies and hose the consumer and worker. You live in the past Ray, that's just not how things work now. This isn't free market capitalism. Workers are hosed with non-competes and companies collude to hold down wages. Sad state of affairs.

Does Monopoly Power Explain Workers’ Stagnant Wages?
Apple and Google settle antitrust lawsuit over hiring collusion charges

What you say would be true in a free market capitalist economy, but that is not what we have. And you are a big supporter of corporate welfare so you should know it.

And by corporate welfare you mean what, letting them keep more of the money they made?

Your worth to an employer is determined by how much it would cost him to replace you. That's it.

If you have a job for $15.00 per hour, demand a raise and are refused, you leave the company. Now if your employer can't find anybody to do the same quality of work as you for $15.00 an hour, and has to increase his offer, you were underpaid. If he can replace you for the same wage, your worth was just about right. If he can find somebody to do the job for $13.00 an hour, you were overpaid.

Oh, but those evil companies. Don't they understand people have families to feed? That's not their problem, that's your problem. If you don't make enough money, then you do something to make your labor more valuable.

stop complaining about the cost of social services.

 

[Lesh]

Why should I have to pay for another persons medical bills when I have my own and families to take care of.

Because when you are too old to work and will have no medical coverage without Medicare....WE will pay for YOURS....just like we paid for your parents

That's how society works

 

[Brain357]

So for most of us wages have been stagnant for years while the rich keep getting richer. Yeah you don't seem to know what you are talking about. Sounds like some rich guy duped you again.

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

You mean they mostly work with politicians to get monopolies and hose the consumer and worker. You live in the past Ray, that's just not how things work now. This isn't free market capitalism. Workers are hosed with non-competes and companies collude to hold down wages. Sad state of affairs.

Does Monopoly Power Explain Workers’ Stagnant Wages?
Apple and Google settle antitrust lawsuit over hiring collusion charges

What you say would be true in a free market capitalist economy, but that is not what we have. And you are a big supporter of corporate welfare so you should know it.

And by corporate welfare you mean what, letting them keep more of the money they made?

Your worth to an employer is determined by how much it would cost him to replace you. That's it.

If you have a job for $15.00 per hour, demand a raise and are refused, you leave the company. Now if your employer can't find anybody to do the same quality of work as you for $15.00 an hour, and has to increase his offer, you were underpaid. If he can replace you for the same wage, your worth was just about right. If he can find somebody to do the job for $13.00 an hour, you were overpaid.

Oh, but those evil companies. Don't they understand people have families to feed? That's not their problem, that's your problem. If you don't make enough money, then you do something to make your labor more valuable.

No I mean deals like Foxconn where corps and government come together to give the company 4.1 billion in tax payer dollars. Not free market capitalism.

Except when the corps have monopolies and collusion on their side. Did you bother to read my links? Employees are forced to sign non-competes which are completely against free market capitalism.

So your claims would be true with free market capitalism, but not what we have. You live in a fairy tale it seems.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Just pointing out the obvious. You wealth envy people believe that if we had less rich people, it would benefit you somehow. If anything, it would be just the opposite.

Money always flows upwards and always will. If you want to stop the rich, then quit giving them your money! Get rid of that computer you are on now. That was manufactured by a multi-billion dollar industry. Since you will have no computer, you won't need the internet either. Cable and internet is another multi-billion dollar industry. And don't forget to turn in or destroy your cell phone. I don't have to tell you what the cell phone industry is worth.

Every day of every week, every month and every year, we willingly send our money to the top. You will buy gasoline sometime soon. You will stop at McDonald's, Burger King or Wendy's. You might buy a new video game system, new video game, a new program or application. Maybe a new car. But one way or another, you are going to willingly send your money to those millionaires and billionaires. You can't stop yourself unless you are Amish.

Okay, now that we've established the rich got that way by making our lives more entertaining, enjoyable or convenient, is it fair to say now that we've giving them all our money for their services, they should give it back with nothing in return?

Your beliefs are funny. The rich are getting richer and wages for everyone else are stagnant. Sorry, but you are wrong. The rich sure have you duped.

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

You mean they mostly work with politicians to get monopolies and hose the consumer and worker. You live in the past Ray, that's just not how things work now. This isn't free market capitalism. Workers are hosed with non-competes and companies collude to hold down wages. Sad state of affairs.

Does Monopoly Power Explain Workers’ Stagnant Wages?
Apple and Google settle antitrust lawsuit over hiring collusion charges

What you say would be true in a free market capitalist economy, but that is not what we have. And you are a big supporter of corporate welfare so you should know it.

And by corporate welfare you mean what, letting them keep more of the money they made?

Your worth to an employer is determined by how much it would cost him to replace you. That's it.

If you have a job for $15.00 per hour, demand a raise and are refused, you leave the company. Now if your employer can't find anybody to do the same quality of work as you for $15.00 an hour, and has to increase his offer, you were underpaid. If he can replace you for the same wage, your worth was just about right. If he can find somebody to do the job for $13.00 an hour, you were overpaid.

Oh, but those evil companies. Don't they understand people have families to feed? That's not their problem, that's your problem. If you don't make enough money, then you do something to make your labor more valuable.

No I mean deals like Foxconn where corps and government come together to give the company 4.1 billion in tax payer dollars. Not free market capitalism.

Except when the corps have monopolies and collusion on their side. Did you bother to read my links? Employees are forced to sign non-competes which are completely against free market capitalism.

So your claims would be true with free market capitalism, but not what we have. You live in a fairy tale it seems.

It's not a free market capitalistic society, it's a regulated capitalist society. A free market means no rules or regulation.

It's not uncommon for employees to sign a contract that says they can't go work for a competitor for X amount of years. You agree to that when you first join the company. It's an option. It's quite common in big business right down to beauty salons where you must work outside X amount of miles from your previous employer. That's to insure you're not taking customers from that place of business when you leave. In some business positions, you develop a personal relationship with a customer along with a professional one.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What's funny about my beliefs? How do the rich get that way? Many of them produce products or services we all use and need to some degree.

Walter E Williams had the best take on this. He said when he was teaching college, his students often asked him what the key was to financial success? To that he said, it's simple: please your fellow man. That's the key.

You may make a great hamburger and get hired to cater cookouts. You please your fellow man by a dozen or so. If you decide to open your own restaurant, you please your fellow many by the thousands. If you decide to franchise your burgers, you please your fellow man by the millions. In each step, financial rewards follow.

You may be very talented at writing and singing songs, so you sing and play your songs at parties, and please your fellow many by the dozens. You then decide to hit the bar scene, and you please your fellow man by the thousands. A recording agent hears about your talent, and you get a recording contract, from there, you are playing arenas and stadiums across the country and please your fellow man by the millions. Again, each step of the way gives you financial rewards.

Yes, you can inherit money, hit the lottery, win a huge lawsuit or something, but most of our wealthy didn't get their money that way. So nobody has me duped on anything.

I don't begrudge anyone making any mount of money.
If a Hedge fund Chief routinely makes a $1 Billion a year (the top 20 do on avg).. Good for him.
He's worth it to the investors in the Fund.

But what's he worth to the country?
That's society's/the GOVT's job to parse.

Is he worth as much as or more than 20,000 Math teachers (at 50k) who taught him his trade, and teach millions more every year?
NO.
He doesn't create a product or impart any great knowledge.. he buys low/sells high already extant cos stocks.
So I have No Problem with society/the Govt setting a much higher Tax rate for him than for others.

Warren Buffett, who only bought cos, doesn't know what to do with his money/$80 Bil..
So he's giving 90% of it to the Bill Gates Foundation.
Bill Gates is giving 90% of his fortune to his Foundation too...
Where it will be spend in the Third World improving health and welfare.
(And Gates would have still gone into his garage and created software no matter the Top tax rate)

I'd rather have Taxed that money more heavily and kept it IN the country by Income or Estate Taxes, and the economy would be better off for it getting spent here than piling up in .1%'s pockets.
`

Then what you are saying is that government can spend your money better than you can. It's not governments business what you do with your money provided it's legal.

Now I've asked this before but never got an answer. So perhaps you can help: The top 20% of wage earners in this country pay 70% of all collected taxes. The top 1% pay 40% of all collected income taxes. How much more should they be paying for the rest of us if 40% or 70% is not enough?

"How much is YOUR fair share of what somebody else worked for?"
Thomas Sowell

 

[Natural Citizen]

That I couldn't tell you. I only posted it to show we are not spending 80% of our budget on the military. Our budget today is over 4 trillion dollars, and we are not spending 3 trillion a year on military. That much I know.

Of note is that the military spending budget and the defense spending budget are two completely different budgets.