CDZ Should prisoners be released from jail and prison over the Chinese virus?

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2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."

NYC Mayor to start emptying jails over virus spread

Even as major crimes aside from murder and rape have been on the rise in New York City, the jail population is about to go down. Probably by a lot. Citing concerns over the spread of the coronavirus, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced this week that the city would begin releasing people from jail early in a number of different categories. Because when you’ve got a major epidemic disrupting life in your town, what better time to have a bunch more criminals roaming the streets, right? (NY Post)
--------

Prisoners serving terms of less than one year will also (mostly) be released. That’s going to include a lot of street-level drug dealers, as well as those accused of assault or property crimes like retail theft, burglary, and similar offenses. But don’t worry. I’m sure that people who were willing to violate all of those types of laws will absolutely listen to the Governor’s shelter in place orders and not go around breaking into people’s apartments.

Maybe it’s just my faulty memory, but I thought all of the major jails and prisons in the region had medical facilities right on the premises. Wouldn’t you think that a facility full of jail cells would be pretty well set up for isolating sick people? Particularly when some of those cells are specifically labeled as “isolation?” It just seems as if you’re running more of a risk of spreading the disease by dumping them back out on the streets instead of keeping them where you know where they are and who they are coming in contact with.
 

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
 

JoeB131

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No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
Or we could have common sense gun control so they can't get guns so easily... naw, that would be silly.

Let's keep locking up millions of people in close quarters. Yeah, that makes sense.
 

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.
 

JoeB131

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I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.
It's easier to complain about something that can't be control (Criminals) than something that can be (guns).
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
Or we could have common sense gun control so they can't get guns so easily... naw, that would be silly.

Let's keep locking up millions of people in close quarters. Yeah, that makes sense.

We have common sense gun control....the problem is that the democrat party politicians, as above, judges and prosecutors keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...over and over again........

We don't have a gun problem, we don't have a normal people who own guns problem.....we have a problem with the democrat party letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison.......over and over again...they are the ones driving the gun crime and murder rate....
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.

We are not talking about normal gun owners...we are talking about repeat offenders.....caught with illegal guns over and over again.....constantly having their illegal gun charges plea bargained away.....then getting released, getting another gun, illegally, and shooting other criminals...

Normal people are not sitting in jail waiting trial for illegal gun charges.....criminals with long histories are sitting in jail waiting for trial.....
 
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2aguy

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I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.
It's easier to complain about something that can't be control (Criminals) than something that can be (guns).
You can control criminals...it is called prison......that you focus on normal gun owners but don't care about locking up the actual criminals using guns illegally shows you are not serious about actually stopping gun crime...

You simply hate normal gun owners.
 

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We have common sense gun control....the problem is that the democrat party politicians, as above, judges and prosecutors keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...over and over again........
Uh, guy, most gun violence is by people who've never been in trouble with the law. Every mass shooter, never arrested in their lives until they snapped.

We don't have a gun problem, we don't have a normal people who own guns problem.....we have a problem with the democrat party letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison.......over and over again...they are the ones driving the gun crime and murder rate....
Nope, we have a gun problem. Every other nation limits who can have guns, and they have nowhere near the death levels from guns we have.

If we handled Covid-19 the way we handle guns, we'd have a National Virus Association that would insist every Mad Scientist has a right to a gene splicing lab and a unlimited number of cultures.
 
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2aguy

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We have common sense gun control....the problem is that the democrat party politicians, as above, judges and prosecutors keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...over and over again........
Uh, guy, most gun violence is by people who've never been in trouble with the law. Every mass shooter, never arrested in their lives until they snapped.

We don't have a gun problem, we don't have a normal people who own guns problem.....we have a problem with the democrat party letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison.......over and over again...they are the ones driving the gun crime and murder rate....
Nope, we have a gun problem. Every other nation limits who can have guns, and they have nowhere near the death levels from guns we have.

If we handled Covid-19 the way we handle guns, we'd have a National Virus Association that would insist every Mad Scientist has a right to a gene splicing lab and a unlimited number of cultures.
Uh, guy, most gun violence is by people who've never been in trouble with the law.


Wrong.....you have been shown this information over and over again....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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We have common sense gun control....the problem is that the democrat party politicians, as above, judges and prosecutors keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...over and over again........
Uh, guy, most gun violence is by people who've never been in trouble with the law. Every mass shooter, never arrested in their lives until they snapped.

We don't have a gun problem, we don't have a normal people who own guns problem.....we have a problem with the democrat party letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison.......over and over again...they are the ones driving the gun crime and murder rate....
Nope, we have a gun problem. Every other nation limits who can have guns, and they have nowhere near the death levels from guns we have.

If we handled Covid-19 the way we handle guns, we'd have a National Virus Association that would insist every Mad Scientist has a right to a gene splicing lab and a unlimited number of cultures.

Gun murder in the U.S. 2019.....

10,265

Mass public shootings in 2019.....

10

Total killed....73

So no, mass public shooters did not commit the most gun violence in the country.

Gun violence is perpetrated by criminals with long criminal histories, going back to their teen years.......where they are constantly released over and over again even with multiple arrests for illegal guns and gun crime.
 
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2aguy

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We have common sense gun control....the problem is that the democrat party politicians, as above, judges and prosecutors keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail and prison...over and over again........
Uh, guy, most gun violence is by people who've never been in trouble with the law. Every mass shooter, never arrested in their lives until they snapped.

We don't have a gun problem, we don't have a normal people who own guns problem.....we have a problem with the democrat party letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison.......over and over again...they are the ones driving the gun crime and murder rate....
Nope, we have a gun problem. Every other nation limits who can have guns, and they have nowhere near the death levels from guns we have.

If we handled Covid-19 the way we handle guns, we'd have a National Virus Association that would insist every Mad Scientist has a right to a gene splicing lab and a unlimited number of cultures.

There is a direct link between our gun crime rates in democrat party controlled cities and democrat party criminal justice policies, implemented by democrat party judges, and prosecutors.....they are driving our gun crime rate in democrat party controlled voting districts.......
 

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.

We are not talking about normal gun owners...we are talking about repeat offenders.....caught with illegal guns over and over again.....constantly having their illegal gun charges plea bargained away.....then getting released, getting another gun, illegally, and shooting other criminals...

Normal people are not sitting in jail waiting trial for illegal gun charges.....criminals with long histories are sitting in jail waiting for trial.....
You're moving the bar pretty quickly here, and doing it without any evidence that I see. You said that many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down. Now you say repeat offenders, and further go on to say repeat offenders caught with illegal guns over and over, constantly having those charges plea bargained away. Just how many people in prison do you think have been caught with illegal guns over and over, had charges for those guns plea bargained away, then went and illegally obtained more guns and shot people with them?

I didn't say anything about people sitting in jail waiting for trial for illegal gun charges. You once again moved the bar. I want to know if you feel that all people awaiting trial should just be "screwed" if this virus gets into the jail they are in. That seems to be your position based on the OP.
 
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2aguy

2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.

We are not talking about normal gun owners...we are talking about repeat offenders.....caught with illegal guns over and over again.....constantly having their illegal gun charges plea bargained away.....then getting released, getting another gun, illegally, and shooting other criminals...

Normal people are not sitting in jail waiting trial for illegal gun charges.....criminals with long histories are sitting in jail waiting for trial.....
You're moving the bar pretty quickly here, and doing it without any evidence that I see. You said that many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down. Now you say repeat offenders, and further go on to say repeat offenders caught with illegal guns over and over, constantly having those charges plea bargained away. Just how many people in prison do you think have been caught with illegal guns over and over, had charges for those guns plea bargained away, then went and illegally obtained more guns and shot people with them?

I didn't say anything about people sitting in jail waiting for trial for illegal gun charges. You once again moved the bar. I want to know if you feel that all people awaiting trial should just be "screwed" if this virus gets into the jail they are in. That seems to be your position based on the OP.

Here.......

Exclusive: As violence rises, prosecutors bargain away gun charges

But The Star's review of every gun charge in Marion County from 2009 to June of this year found that prosecutors — Democrat and Republican alike — dismissed 3,059 gun charges, including 1,508 felony counts. Among those dismissals were 371 charges for possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon.
---------------------

Leandrew "L-Rock" Beasley, a drug dealer with a history of gun violence, took part in a wild and deadly shootout on the Northeastside not long after getting out of prison in 2012.

In the melee, Beasley clutched a gun in each fist, blasting away. More than 40 shots were fired as neighbors huddled in their homes and bystanders were only yards away.

James Allen III was struck by six bullets, including a fatal shot to the head. Yet another name was added to the long list of Indianapolis murder victims — a toll that accelerated this year causing the community and public officials to join in discussions and seek answers to a deadly surge in gun violence.

And, while many agree that attacking root causes such as poverty, despair, poor parenting and educational failure can help, Beasley's case points to a more immediate, more pressing question, one uncovered in a recent Indianapolis Star investigation.

Why wasn't Beasley in prison that day? And what about others like him?

Twice, Beasley had been charged with possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon, an offense specifically designed to reduce the murder rate. The crime carried a 20-year prison sentence. Yet — twice — prosecutors dropped the gun charge, allowing Beasley to plead guilty to a lesser offense and escape a long prison term.
Making such charges stick could significantly reduce the number of shootings in Indianapolis, some criminal justice experts say, because it would take gun-toting career criminals like Beasley off the street. There is little or no dispute about the logic behind the law.

"If you have a violent felon and he's carrying a gun, practically nothing good can come of it," said former Marion County prosecutor Scott Newman, who helped write the 1999 law.
 
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2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.

We are not talking about normal gun owners...we are talking about repeat offenders.....caught with illegal guns over and over again.....constantly having their illegal gun charges plea bargained away.....then getting released, getting another gun, illegally, and shooting other criminals...

Normal people are not sitting in jail waiting trial for illegal gun charges.....criminals with long histories are sitting in jail waiting for trial.....
You're moving the bar pretty quickly here, and doing it without any evidence that I see. You said that many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down. Now you say repeat offenders, and further go on to say repeat offenders caught with illegal guns over and over, constantly having those charges plea bargained away. Just how many people in prison do you think have been caught with illegal guns over and over, had charges for those guns plea bargained away, then went and illegally obtained more guns and shot people with them?

I didn't say anything about people sitting in jail waiting for trial for illegal gun charges. You once again moved the bar. I want to know if you feel that all people awaiting trial should just be "screwed" if this virus gets into the jail they are in. That seems to be your position based on the OP.

Here....

The Star's findings include:

• More than half of felony gun charges were dismissed, usually in plea agreements.

• Possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon — the charge specifically aimed at getting violent criminals off the streets — was dismissed in 41 percent of cases.

• A change in the state's criminal code that began July 1 reduced the jail time for possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon.

Why the charges meant to keep gunslingers off the street are dropped is a complicated question tangled in prosecutorial will, rules of evidence and sentencing practices written into the law. But when shown The Star's findings, Newman called for legislation to close the incentive to bargain away such charges. It is an idea endorsed by public safety officials.
 
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2aguy

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Gun murder in the U.S. 2019.....

10,265
Guy, we don't have time for your skewed NRA propaganda numbers.. Nobody thinks there were only 10 mass shootings in 2019.

There were more mass shootings than days in 2019

Wrong.......and Mother Jones isn't spelled with "NRA."

US mass shootings, 1982-2020: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

  • Here is a description of the criteria we use:
    • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
    • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
    • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)
    • Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
    • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
    • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
    ----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Rental Truck in Nice, France, 86 murdered in 5 minutes...

Total number murdered in mass public shootings by year...

Lawn mower deaths every year.... more than 75
(
https://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2007/0419-lawn-mowers.php)
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8



 
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2aguy

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Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."
Um, yeah, we already lock up too many people.

If Covid-19 gets into a prison, we are going to be screwed.

No...those criminals will be screwed....but we can isolate them in their already isolated prison cells.........rather than let them out to attack normal citizens....
I wonder, do you feel the same way about those who are imprisoned awaiting trial? What about those who did not do a plea deal?

Also, I find it strange that someone so adamantly for gun rights would describe someone having a gun illegally as automatically violent.

We are not talking about normal gun owners...we are talking about repeat offenders.....caught with illegal guns over and over again.....constantly having their illegal gun charges plea bargained away.....then getting released, getting another gun, illegally, and shooting other criminals...

Normal people are not sitting in jail waiting trial for illegal gun charges.....criminals with long histories are sitting in jail waiting for trial.....
You're moving the bar pretty quickly here, and doing it without any evidence that I see. You said that many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down. Now you say repeat offenders, and further go on to say repeat offenders caught with illegal guns over and over, constantly having those charges plea bargained away. Just how many people in prison do you think have been caught with illegal guns over and over, had charges for those guns plea bargained away, then went and illegally obtained more guns and shot people with them?

I didn't say anything about people sitting in jail waiting for trial for illegal gun charges. You once again moved the bar. I want to know if you feel that all people awaiting trial should just be "screwed" if this virus gets into the jail they are in. That seems to be your position based on the OP.

Here....

'I'm angry that he was out'

The serious violent felon law has been called "the homicide prevention statute," but it didn't stop Beasley and others.

Beasley, 33, had all the hallmarks of why the law was written. At his sentencing hearing, the prosecutor noted that Beasley had a juvenile record and seven convictions as an adult, with 19 arrests.

"He's had many chances," the prosecutor told the judge.

Beasley had a long rap sheet that included multiple drug and gun arrests, including two convictions for carrying a handgun without a license.

In 2008 and again in 2009, Beasley was charged with possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon. But prosecutors dropped the charges both times.

Instead, he pleaded guilty to lesser charges: visiting a common nuisance in the 2008 case and resisting law enforcement in the 2009 case, both pleas coming during former prosecutor Carl Brizzi's term.

Had he been convicted on the 2009 gun charge and received even the advisory sentence of 10 years, rather than the maximum of 20 years, Beasley would have been in prison today. Instead, he was released in May 2012.

Back on the streets, Beasley quickly returned to his old ways, carrying a gun despite the legal prohibition placed on felons. And soon, his gun came into play in a dispute with Allen. The day before Allen was killed, the pair strugg
 
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