Should President Obama Suspend Military Aide to Israel?

[Contumacious]

America is considered the moral leader of the world.

Only by those who are retarded beyond measure.

With that said, the IDF shelling and bombing of Gaza is arguably not about self-defense

Of course not.

The 1925 Zionist Congress decided to create a Jewish State in Palestine and disappear its residents by any means necessary.


Israel Kills – For the Fun of It

Their foreign-military policy = pure sadism

Their goal is to solve the Palestinian Problem once and for all, or at least the Gaza Problem – by reoccupying it as a prelude to annexing most of the West Bank. The dream of Greater Israel – the key plank in the ruling Likud party platform – is about to be realized.

So, in the interests of human rights and the American interest of not being seen as condoning the killing of so many innocent lives,

Justice is irrelevant.

The zionuts must win no matter what.

AIPAC and JDL are so powerful that they will now cause this thread to be moved or locked.

And so it goes.

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[ThoughtCrimes]

Because Israel provides the world with timely and correct intelligence on what's going on in the Muslim world. Because Israel supplies doctors and supplies all over the world whenever there is a crisis. Because Israel is the sole democracy in the region. Because Israel proves you don't have to be a dictator nor an ethnic cleanser to have a successful state. Because Israel provides the world with life saving drugs and technologies. Because Israel is the moral touchstone of the world: those who support it are on the right side, those who oppose it are on the wrong side.
But the methodology was flawed. What does it matter if the US gives more aid or less aid to Israel? What does it matter what the cumulative amount is, or the amount per person (which is a ludicrous claim given the 70 years we're talking about)?
Egypt is the second highest recipient. Probably still. Certainly while the Muslim Brotherhood was in charge. Jordan is next and Pakistan after that.
So where would you rather invest your money? With Israel, which has done a lot for the US, or Pakistan, which is basically at war with the US?

Sorry Rabbi, that's not an argument. It's a political ad with no attempt to disguise what many folks would consider propaganda. I thought from reading a number of your posts you leaned toward reasonableness for the most part, but perhaps I'll amend that estimation down the road.

I don't believe US taxpayers need to continue this largess to a number of other Nations, which includes Israel. Being an occasional ally is no reason for Israel to receive over $5 million per day in military aid from the US taxpayers. If you disagree, that's fine by me.

P.S. Don't try to label me anti-Semitic as you did another. That would be a mistake.

No aid and Israel must obliterate their enemies quickly without mercy.
How will they pay for it?
My friend, there are lots of Jews around the world with shit loads of money and no matter how anti-religious they may be, they want Israel around.

Of course, non-Jewish charities such as The United Way will suffer.

I'm fine with that.

 

[Contumacious]

That's not a fact. That's a contention.
BTW, are you getting the poll results you were hoping for?

I split it up to see if there was a schism based on philosophical affiliation. In part, I was interested in that possibility because of something I heard Mark Levin say on his show. Despite the fact that my poll allowed people to self-identify, my poll does NOT seem to bear out Levin's contention that liberals are considerably more likely to side against the Israeli IDF assault.

3 times the amount of conservatives voted no.

"CONservatives" are typically members of the religious right wing.


Which means they have a penchant for swallowing bullshit.

Which means that they have swallowed the fraud that the present occupiers of Palestine are related to the BIBLICAL ten lost tribes of Israel.

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[ThoughtCrimes]

You're right. You're merely stupid.
I'll wait for your justification for handing more money to Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan than the uS gives to Israel.

Are you proud of that grudge you carry around? And your binary logic of either for or against Israel in all matters for all people based alone on your judgment is what is actually stupid, irrational and sectarian. If you have anything else to say, talk to the hand, you *******

Still waiting on your rationale for why aid to Egypt, Jordan, and Pakistan is OK but aid to Israel is not.

If you had read my post #169 you would see why there was no need to respond to that.

Or perhaps you didn't comprehend the meaning when I stated, "I don't believe US taxpayers need to continue this largess to a number of other Nations, which includes Israel." Calling someone stupid usually come back to bite a careless person in the ass.

How's the taste of that shit sandwich you just took a bite of sitting with you?
That I didn't spell out which Nations is absolutely irrelevant, so don't even think of going there.

 

[SAYIT]

I split it up to see if there was a schism based on philosophical affiliation. In part, I was interested in that possibility because of something I heard Mark Levin say on his show. Despite the fact that my poll allowed people to self-identify, my poll does NOT seem to bear out Levin's contention that liberals are considerably more likely to side against the Israeli IDF assault.

3 times the amount of conservatives voted no.

"CONservatives" are typically members of the religious right wing.
Which means they have a penchant for swallowing bullshit.
Which means that they have swallowed the fraud that the present occupiers of Palestine are related to the BIBLICAL ten lost tribes of Israel.

That bit of stupidity is remarkable, especially for one who has already set an unmatchable standard for stupidity. So how do you explain the fact that self-described moderates voted "no" by a 12-2 margin and, what is most interesting, the libs are even at 4-4.

 

[Stephanie]

I'm surprised he hasn't already

he hate them as much as he does us

we can go down with them

 

[Contumacious]

3 times the amount of conservatives voted no.

"CONservatives" are typically members of the religious right wing.
Which means they have a penchant for swallowing bullshit.
Which means that they have swallowed the fraud that the present occupiers of Palestine are related to the BIBLICAL ten lost tribes of Israel.

That bit of stupidity is remarkable, especially for one who has already set an unmatchable standard for stupidity. So how do you explain the fact that self-described moderates voted "no" by a 12-2 margin and, what is most interesting, the libs are even at 4-4.

Tim Wildmon
American "CONservative" Theocrat, Likudnick and Israel Firster

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[MikeK]

Hamas is the aggressor and terrorist group. Stop funding them.

You don't think the Palestinian civilians are being terrorized by widespread Israeli military assaults on their homes, schools, and markets?

Don't you see?

Only THEY (the Palestinian civilians) have the power to make this all stop by denouncing Hamas.

Rest assured there are many Palestinians who would rather endure the usual oppression imposed on them by Israeli occupation than the death and miseries they are experiencing now as the result of Hamas' actions. But for them to voice that preference would be suicidal.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, no different in principle than the French Resistance (the Maquis) during WW-II. Those ordinary French citizens who suffered cruel retaliations by the Germans for acts of sabotage committed by the Maquis would have much preferred to suffer the routine oppression of occupation but didn't dare reveal that preference. Those who did were promptly killed or subjected to far worse misery than that which attended the occupation.

Simply stated, the vast majority of Palestinians are caught between a rock and an extremely hard place. And their children are wholly innocent.

 

[Indofred]

Why, so the idiot in chief can give the money to his terrorist friends?

America first, but you put America second to Israel.

Supplying Israel:

Costs American tax payer a lot of money - money that could be used for the benefit of Americans.
American support for Israel puts American in danger of attack. Supply lines are a legitimate target of war, and you supply Israel. In other words, your support of Israel will probably cost American lives.

So, America first, or Israel first?

 

[Two Thumbs]

America is considered the moral leader of the world. I won’t bother to comment on the merit of that claim (either made by us or others). But it’s a simple fact that American foreign policy often has a strong moral element to it. For example, during the cold war, we promoted policies to encourage the Soviet Union to allow the emigration of Russian Jews to Israel. Furthermore, President Carter famously elevated human rights in his dealings with other nations. In fact, I believe the US always includes restrictions on the use of military aid and the weapons we supply to allies in the sense that we won’t allow them to be used except for defensive purposes.


With that said, the IDF shelling and bombing of Gaza is arguably not about self-defense considering the nature of the assault and the civilian death toll which is completely one-sided in terms of numbers. In that regard, the numbers I've seen are quite shocking. I won’t claim the number I’m providing is an official one, but what I’ve seen reported on the news is approximately 1,400 Palestinian deaths, mostly civilians, compared to 56 Israeli soldiers and 3 civilians.


The Israelis are using our military aid and weapons we supply to engage in these wholesale deaths which is the result of targeting civilian areas.

So, in the interests of human rights and the American interest of not being seen as condoning the killing of so many innocent lives, including women and children, should President Obama suspend military aid to Israel in the interest of trying to stop the killing of so many civilians?

we should have cut them off after the USS Liberty was attacked or at least at the end of the Cold War.

the rest of your "information" is halfassed at best, you should know by now that hamas uses civilians like the viet cong did for pr.

 

[Two Thumbs]

AmericanFirst, AvgGuyIA, bendog, deltex1, Dreadnaught1968, eagle7_31, longknife, Mojo2, NLT, OKTexas, OriginalShroom, RetiredGySgt, Rozman, The Rabbi

None of these people are fiscal conservatives, if any claim to be so, feel free to call them liars, since this vote makes it clear that they would be lying.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Conservatives aren't pacifists. They understand military action is a necessary evil sometimes. It is also understood civilian causalities in times of battle are sometimes unavoidable. Now in this case conservatives are just as outraged by the killing of civilians, they are just pointing the blame in the correct direction, unlike you. No one is making excuses for Israel, because they don't need excuses for doing the right thing. I believe it's you that is overlooking the role Hamas is playing in the death of their own people.

War needs to hurt. Civilians must due. Israel's enemies understand that. That's why their rockets are lobbed into Israel indiscriminately. This fact justifies Israel's reaction.

Israel is saving civilian lives. The harder they charge into Gaza, the faster they rid the place of Hamas, the sooner the battle will be over, the more lives will be saved. That's how war works.

That is true, but in the meantime, Israel must kill Gaza civilians so that the pain hurts too much to continue messing with them.

 

[Peach]

War needs to hurt. Civilians must due. Israel's enemies understand that. That's why their rockets are lobbed into Israel indiscriminately. This fact justifies Israel's reaction.

Israel is saving civilian lives. The harder they charge into Gaza, the faster they rid the place of Hamas, the sooner the battle will be over, the more lives will be saved. That's how war works.

That is true, but in the meantime, Israel must kill Gaza civilians so that the pain hurts too much to continue messing with them.

Perhaps Hamas might make some effort to protect civilians, a first for Hamas.

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you proud of that grudge you carry around? And your binary logic of either for or against Israel in all matters for all people based alone on your judgment is what is actually stupid, irrational and sectarian. If you have anything else to say, talk to the hand, you *******

Still waiting on your rationale for why aid to Egypt, Jordan, and Pakistan is OK but aid to Israel is not.

If you had read my post #169 you would see why there was no need to respond to that.

Or perhaps you didn't comprehend the meaning when I stated, "I don't believe US taxpayers need to continue this largess to a number of other Nations, which includes Israel." Calling someone stupid usually come back to bite a careless person in the ass.

How's the taste of that shit sandwich you just took a bite of sitting with you?
That I didn't spell out which Nations is absolutely irrelevant, so don't even think of going there.

The only shit sandwich is the one you are serving up.
Of course it is relevant which nations you think ought to get aid. It is in fact the whole point. But let me guess: Nations with a majority of Jews in them shouldn't get aid. Amiright?

 

[The Rabbi]

AmericanFirst, AvgGuyIA, bendog, deltex1, Dreadnaught1968, eagle7_31, longknife, Mojo2, NLT, OKTexas, OriginalShroom, RetiredGySgt, Rozman, The Rabbi

None of these people are fiscal conservatives, if any claim to be so, feel free to call them liars, since this vote makes it clear that they would be lying.

How is fiscal conservatism even relevant here? You undertstand Israeli aid from the US amounts to about $2B a year, right? That's enough to run the government here for about 2 days. It is a rounding error in the budget.

No, I suspect the aid issue is just a cover for deeper feelings of hostility towards Israel. In fact I am almost sure of it.

 

[JWBooth]

Israel's recent aggresssion does not alter, but does reinforce, my opposition to all foreign aid.

 

[Peach]

Israel's recent aggresssion does not alter, but does reinforce, my opposition to all foreign aid.

Unilateral cease fires for humanitarian reasons are agression? And Israel accepting a three day cease fire while Hamas dithered is aggressive, how so?

 

[Peach]

You really must construct a cogent and convincing argument to make that lame duck fly! In an odd quirk in the progression of Karma, the Israelis actually owe the existence of the State of Israel to the victorious US and their allies of WWII and the shrinking of the British Colonial Empire. The cart doesn't pull the horse, does it?

I am not some wacked out fundamentalist who believes that crap in your lead sentence. Nor am I a Brit who believes that BS hang-over from WWII.

Care to convince me that the world owes Israel and how that is connected to the timing of the US entry into WWII?

Crimes against humanity the world failed to prevent, and the late US efforts to do so(.)

Peach, that is not an argument. It is just another contention lacking any foundation to support a conclusion...the elements of an argument!

History cannot be altered by stating "That was then"; it remains. If we do not remember, and make amends for genocide, we are approving the next one.

 

[The Rabbi]

Israel's recent aggresssion does not alter, but does reinforce, my opposition to all foreign aid.

Unilateral cease fires for humanitarian reasons are agression? And Israel accepting a three day cease fire while Hamas dithered is aggressive, how so?

It is. It allows Hamas to prepare and re-arm, thus prolonging the conflict.

Israel needs to tell Obama to suck on it, tell the UN to stick it where the sun don't shine, tell the EU what they can do with their protests, and go in and clean out Hamas once and for all. Totally degrade their ability to make war, kill all their senior staff.

 

[Peach]

Israel's recent aggresssion does not alter, but does reinforce, my opposition to all foreign aid.

Unilateral cease fires for humanitarian reasons are agression? And Israel accepting a three day cease fire while Hamas dithered is aggressive, how so?

It is. It allows Hamas to prepare and re-arm, thus prolonging the conflict.

Israel needs to tell Obama to suck on it, tell the UN to stick it where the sun don't shine, tell the EU what they can do with their protests, and go in and clean out Hamas once and for all. Totally degrade their ability to make war, kill all their senior staff.

The comment was stating Israel was the agressor; not true. And Hamas has both Israelis and Palestinians in chains, Hamas must be removed.