Should McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, etc. be in the HOF?

Alcohol use, use of greenies and other stimulants were rampant in the early days of baseball. Just not reported.
You have no idea who was doing what..unless they cop to it.

The big difference is, I don't care. Watching the 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was a lot of fun.
I won't let a bunch of "never played the game" sportswriters ruin for me. :)
Making a mockery of other legends records is what the issue is. It was a staple of men aging to talk who was the best and the records from all eras. That is over. Alcohol, greenies and the like are nothing compared to steroids. But the Home Run contests were fun.
 
"...proven or suspected..."???

I think MLB has to adopt the same standard as U.S. criminal law: innocent until proven guilty. All three should immediately be ushered into the HOF. Bonds especially...he had HOF credentials before he started hitting all those home runs.
 
"...proven or suspected..."???

I think MLB has to adopt the same standard as U.S. criminal law: innocent until proven guilty. All three should immediately be ushered into the HOF. Bonds especially...he had HOF credentials before he started hitting all those home runs.
he started taking steroids in 97....in his 11 years before that he was avg 30 homers a year,in the 8 years after 97 it was 46 a year....thats a big improvement.....
 
Alcohol use, use of greenies and other stimulants were rampant in the early days of baseball. Just not reported.
You have no idea who was doing what..unless they cop to it.

The big difference is, I don't care. Watching the 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was a lot of fun.
I won't let a bunch of "never played the game" sportswriters ruin for me. :)
If You're Not a Union Man, You're Not a Man at All. You're a Manservant.

Rampant amphetamine use was reported in Jim Bouton's classic Ball Four way back in 1970. Even more important than this thread's assigned focus is the fact that Bouton, a twenty-game winner, wrote that he only got a salary of $18,000 for that achievement and had to beg for even that. This was before people with athletic talent woke up and unionized. People with mental talent are still asleep, dreaming their doormat-nerd dreams.
 
Just to be fair, Babe Ruth and Maris hit their HR's against 85 mph grooved fastball or curveballs.
They also didn't face relievers who could fire the ball at 100+ mph in the 7-9 innings. I don't know how many substandard fastballs they parked in the upper deck but if they were facing fresh arms in the later innings, its almost certain the number would be less.
 
I say let them in. If we start applying 1990's sensitivities to the athletes; are we going to apply it to everyone who was inducted before them? How many pitchers doctored the ball? How many guys were on creatine? How many "gentleman's agreements" were there between umps and pitchers--Maddux would get a few inches from some umpires that other pitchers didn't get for example. What about sabermetrics? If we're going to use VORP for 2020 inductees...should we apply it to past inductees and find that well the VORP on someone like Willie Stargell wasn't that great??? (just an example).

If you do the job on the field; you're in the hall. That goes for Pete Rose too.
 
Bonds had already earned his jacket years before wanting to "get in" on the applause of Sosa / MacQuire by using steroids and crushing the ball! More ego with Clemmons in his latter years! It's wanting to hang on and being effective as the old body just doesn't recover so easily! It was almost "must see TV" every "at bat" for Bonds for some years! :dunno: :eek::bowdown::itsok:
 
Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.
I want my sports stars on drugs and my lawmakers getting random drug tests.
 
I say let them in. If we start applying 1990's sensitivities to the athletes; are we going to apply it to everyone who was inducted before them? How many pitchers doctored the ball? How many guys were on creatine? How many "gentleman's agreements" were there between umps and pitchers--Maddux would get a few inches from some umpires that other pitchers didn't get for example. What about sabermetrics? If we're going to use VORP for 2020 inductees...should we apply it to past inductees and find that well the VORP on someone like Willie Stargell wasn't that great??? (just an example).

If you do the job on the field; you're in the hall. That goes for Pete Rose too.
Pete Rose may be a lot of things, but he was not one of the steroid guys. He may have been in the modern era. The dude was a winner with flaws. He was intense and plied his craft to the peak of his abilities. He did not change one iota from his rookie year. The gambling is an issue only because of the Black Sox scandal and because you can play not to win. If something more comes out with Rose than it will be justified despite his ways of playing.
 
Babe Ruth,

Huge Hot Dog Eater. Yum.
Hit more Home Runs in a year that most Teams did. Check the Stats.

Babe Ruth = Greatest Player Ever.
 
in one word NO. Tom Brady and Bill Belichcheat need to be included in that lost as well,ALL banned from MLB and the NFL with all their records scratched.
 
Pete Rose may be a lot of things, but he was not one of the steroid guys. He may have been in the modern era. The dude was a winner with flaws. He was intense and plied his craft to the peak of his abilities. He did not change one iota from his rookie year. The gambling is an issue only because of the Black Sox scandal and because you can play not to win. If something more comes out with Rose than it will be justified despite his ways of playing.

22lcidw The gambling had nothing to do with how talented a player he was on the field.If all those other cheaters i just mentioned are allowed to be in the hall of fame its a travesty of justice to keep Rose out of it.
 
Well at least there is some kind of justice in MLB baseball at least unlike with the NFL. Now if the ban on Rose would be lifted,I would say Baseball always does the right thing and there is justice. Too bad the NFL is such a criminal organization and wont do the right thing like baseball has with Clemons and Bonds.they endorce a player and coach that has to cheat to achieve greatness in shady brady and Bill Belicheat They need to be barred from the HOF same as Bonds and Clemens have rightfully been by MLB baseball. Clemons and Bonds dont even come close to the level of being cheaters that Brady and Belicheat do,they pale in comparison to them as far as being major big time cheaters.

 
Last edited:
No. Their ties to steroid use should keep them out. I don't consider them cheaters because I regard cheating as breaking a rule and most didn't have rules against steroids during their careers, but steroid use does skew the validity of their statistics to the point they can't be trusted.
 
The accusations against Clemmens were never proven and yet he is out of the HOF. Maybe it was because the accuser didn't get a pat on the back enough . So Clemmens reputation gets tarnished.
 
Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.
Yes. They were products of the game. Nearly every single player in their era was doing it, and the commissioner was happily cashing the checks.

If we can put guys in the Hall of Fame that didn't hit three home runs a year during the dead ball era, then these guys can go into the Hall of Fame too.
 

Forum List

Back
Top