STATISTCAL TRANSCENDENCE #3: Nolan Ryan

[rightwinger]

my point is the man lost many 1 run games while giving up 2-3 hits...and maybe a run.....including the 6 in 1972.....if ryan was on the A's or reds of the 70's he would have won a few....

OK then
Name a season where Ryan deserved the Cy Young and didn’t get it

 

[Harry Dresden]

OK then
Name a season where Ryan deserved the Cy Young and didn’t get it

i never said he deserved one and didnt get it......i said if he was on a better team in the70's he would have won a few...

 

[rightwinger]

i never said he deserved one and didnt get it......i said if he was on a better team in the70's he would have won a few...

fair enough

 

[candycorn]

I remember hearing the announcers during his time with the Astros. One pointed out that doctors are not sure how he pitched in his later years.

A medical quirk that also affected Nolan Ryan gives ailing David Price some comfort

In September 1986, the late Dr. Frank Jobe performed a manual test on Nolan Ryan’s painful right elbow and determined that the pitcher needed Tommy John surgery, a procedure Jobe had pioneered more than a decade earlier. Ryan said no—he was turning 40 that January and knew the expected recovery...

theathletic.com

 

[Mac-7]

Nolan Ryan is an odd bird when discussing the greatest pitchers of all time. While he was clearly a top 3 pitcher his entire career, he actually never won a Cy Young. There were arguably 2-3 years where, had there not been clear bias, he should have won... but that was shocking to me.

Let's look at all-time Strikeouts:
1. Nolan Ryan 5,714
2. Randy Johnson 4,875
3. Roger Clemens 4,672
4. Steve Carlton 4,136
5. Bert Blyleven 3,701

Ryan is 15% higher than the next highest pitcher in MLB history in strikeouts.

7 no-hitters, 3 above 2nd place who is Sandy Koufax
Led the league 11 times in strikouts
Struck out 383 in 1973, the most ever since 1900.
Pitched in 4 decades. 1966-1993
Struck out over 200 batters 5 times in his 40's, there are only 4 other 200 K seasons by over 40 players in MLB history

Fun fact: Nolan Ryan pitched to Roger Maris, Mark McGwire, and Barry Bonds

Nolan Ryan is an anomale in baseball pitching. I think the proper way to view him is that he was absolutely dominant in a generation/era that viewed Win-Loss by a pitcher as the tell-all. By today's metrics, knowing that a pitchers W/L can be decieving, Ryan would have won multiple Cy young awards.

Some people accumulate stats over time and it seems trivial or padding. Ryan was a top 3 pitcher for nearly all of his career which spanned a LONG lifespan... he wasn't a stat padder, his K record will never be touched. Of course, much of this is because current players are held to sub 100 pitch counts and aren't allowed to do what Nolan did. However, Nolan did what he did at a level so high above others who weren't being held back.

Even if today's studs were allowed to finish games when they wanted, none of them.. not MadBum, not Sherzer, not Verlander, not Kershaw... none of them would touch Nolan Ryan. He's on an entirely different planet.

He has achieved... STATISTICAL TRANSCENDENCE

I think Ryan might get Robin Ventura’s vote for best street fighter of his time



Go Nolan!

 

[Mac-7]

I think Ryan might get Robin Ventura’s vote for best street fighter of his time



Go Nolan!

Age restricted?

What a bunch of lib pussies at YouTube

Drag Queens are ok for children to see, but a manly display fisticuffs is not?

Only in the upsidedown world of lib la la land

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Ryan wasn’t even the best pitcher of his era

Carlton, Seaver, Maddox and Clemons were better

He didn’t win Cy Youngs because he was never the best pitcher in any year. He was close several times

He was a stat machine. But a strikeout counts the same as a groundout. A no hitter counts the same as a shutout.

Ryan probably should have been Cy Young in 1981 and 1987.

In 81 Fernando won it, but Ryan blew him away in ERA (F - 2.48, Ryan 1.69), and Ryan had one of the best ERA+ seasons in history (195, the greatest is Rivera at 202). Their W-L were similar, as were their WAR. I think the whole “Fernando-Mania” craze caused a fun movement to elevate him above someone who by the numbers deserved it more.

In 1987 relief pitcher Steve Bedrosian won it, Ryan beat him in WAR (5.4-2.3), ERA (2.76-2.83), WHIP (1.139-1.202). An outlier here is that while Ryan out performed nearly all other starters in being a good pitcher, he had an 8-16 record because he pitched for a team with anemic offense. Other stats don’t tell us much in a comparison because it’s a relief pitcher vs a starter. We’ve seen a dominant 10-12 pitcher win the Cy Young in modern times (King Felix).

Back then pitchers weren’t judged by who was the best at pitching.. it was erroneously tying in elements outside of their control. We’ve thankfully been able to identify how good pitchers really were, and sometimes laugh at how wrong previous Cy Young winners were.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ryan wasn’t even the best pitcher of his era

Carlton, Seaver, Maddox and Clemons were better

He didn’t win Cy Youngs because he was never the best pitcher in any year. He was close several times

He was a stat machine. But a strikeout counts the same as a groundout. A no hitter counts the same as a shutout.

He didn't win Cy Youngs because he played on some AWFUL teams, that couldn't score runs and played terrible defense. He led the league in ERA with an 8-16 record.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Some of those Angels teams were not that bad
Houston had a great team

Yes, they were. Leading the league in ERA with a losing record is good pitcher on a bad team.

 

[Jarlaxle]

ok so whats your point?....

On his head, as usual.

OK then
Name a season where Ryan deserved the Cy Young and didn’t get it

73. 77. 81. Probably 87.

 

[rightwinger]

He didn't win Cy Youngs because he played on some AWFUL teams, that couldn't score runs and played terrible defense. He led the league in ERA with an 8-16 record.

In many ways, Ryan was his own worst enemy and while he led the league in strikeouts, he also led in walks

 

[Jarlaxle]

In many ways, Ryan was his own worst enemy and while he led the league in strikeouts, he also led in walks

Because he often couldn't trust the defense behind him and knew it. Trying to strike out everyone makes perfect sense when your team leads the league in errors and unearned runs!

 

[rightwinger]

On his head, as usual.



73. 77. 81. Probably 87.

1973 Jim Palmer had more wins, lower ERA and more shutouts than Ryan

 

[Jarlaxle]

1973 Jim Palmer had more wins, lower ERA and more shutouts than Ryan

And yet...Ryan's WAR is 1.5 higher.

 

[rightwinger]

And yet...Ryan's WAR is 1.5 higher.

Please provide the formula for WAR

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Please provide the formula for WAR

It’s complex, but it formulates how many more wins the player accounts for over a league average replacement. For pitchers it primarily uses runs allowed and innings pitched, combined with league average stuff

 

[Mr. Friscus]

In many ways, Ryan was his own worst enemy and while he led the league in strikeouts, he also led in walks

I’ve seen you poo-poo strikeouts as just an out.. but strikeouts are preferred at a team level because runners can’t advance. An out isn’t an out. Groundouts cause runner advancement and occasional errors. Fly outs cause sacrifice flies. Ryan’s dominant strikeout pitching puts him above another pitcher who gets less of them

 

[Jarlaxle]

I’ve seen you poo-poo strikeouts as just an out.. but strikeouts are preferred at a team level because runners can’t advance. An out isn’t an out. Groundouts cause runner advancement and occasional errors. Fly outs cause sacrifice flies. Ryan’s dominant strikeout pitching puts him above another pitcher who gets less of them

RW knows all...often wrong but always certain. If you don't believe him, he will filibuster until you give up.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

RW knows all...often wrong but always certain. If you don't believe him, he will filibuster until you give up.

For some reason he appears to have a weird hang-up on Nolan Ryan. I get thinking a guy might be overrated, and people have that right to say generally, but this climbs above that. there’s some desperation here with very weak points and statistical blinders on

 

[Jarlaxle]

For some reason he appears to have a weird hang-up on Nolan Ryan. I get thinking a guy might be overrated, and people have that right to say generally, but this climbs above that. there’s some desperation here with very weak points and statistical blinders on

His ENTIRE LIFE is trolling this site. He has made fifty posts a day, 365 days a year, EACH AND EVERY DAY FOR ALMOST FIFTEEN YEARS.