Should McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, etc. be in the HOF?

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.

 

[Meathead]

Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.

NO! But Rose should.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.

Yes. Beyond the drugs (which, like it or not, just about everyone was doing from the 70s' on), they brought entertainment to the game, enjoyment to
the fans, gave the sportswriters something to write about, and made their teams and their respective ownerships millions of dollars in revenue. For the so called "purists" to keep
them out is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.

Trickle-Down Jurinalism

Pete Rose also belongs there. Steve Garvey, too; the only reason he's not is that he was cold to the sportswriters.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

NO! But Rose should.

Rose had his chance and he was too stubborn and bull headed to take it.
You bet on your own team while you were manager. Admit it and just make nice.
Then, you're back in the club. Pete is his own worst enemy.

 

[bluzman61]

What the heck, you might as well put them in the Hall. Who knows how many others that used performance enhancing drugs were never caught or suspected. Also, Curt Schilling should be in the Hall. I believe he's the ONLY pitcher with over 3,000 career strikeouts who's not in the Hall. And he's not in obviously because of his political views. It WAS nice to see Gil Hodges finally get in. He deserved to be there a long time ago.

 

[Meathead]

Yes. Beyond the drugs (which, like it or not, just about everyone was doing from the 70s' on), they brought entertainment to the game, enjoyment to
the fans, gave the sportswriters something to write about, and made their teams and their respective ownerships millions of dollars in revenue. For the so called "purists" to keep
them out is the height of hypocrisy.

It's not unlike illegal migrants. You play by the rules. You also shouldn't expect props for cheating when others didn't. You have guys in the 40s who could be in the HOF but their numbers didn't add up since they spent prime years serving their country.

And no, not everyone was doing them. Schmidt might have had 600 homers with a boost.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

It's not unlike illegal migrants. You play by the rules. You also shouldn't expect props for cheating when others didn't. You have guys in the 40s who could be in the HOF but their numbers didn't add up since they spent prime years serving their country.

And no, not everyone was doing them. Schmidt might have had 600 homers with a boost.

Alcohol use, use of greenies and other stimulants were rampant in the early days of baseball. Just not reported.
You have no idea who was doing what..unless they cop to it.

The big difference is, I don't care. Watching the 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was a lot of fun.
I won't let a bunch of "never played the game" sportswriters ruin for me.

 

[Meathead]

Alcohol use, use of greenies and other stimulants were rampant in the early days of baseball. Just not reported.
You have no idea who was doing what..unless they cop to it.

The big difference is, I don't care. Watching the 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was a lot of fun.
I won't let a bunch of "never played the game" sportswriters ruin for me.

With steroids, it's a bit like watching a trans-man compete with women in weightlifting.

It's sleazy. Bonds was belting 40 HRs when those who played by-the-book were in decline, as nature calls.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yes, I'm that guy that'll open this discussion.

My thoughts:
- Yes, they either were proven or suspected cheaters.
- However, they were legendary figures in the history of baseball.

When I go to the HOF, I want the story of the league. I want to hear about the black sox scandal. If you have to mention their drug use, so be it.

However, these sanctimonious sports writers that decide their fate are the most shallow, petty, 14-year-old-high-school-valley-girl type people on planet earth.

These guys belong in the HOF.

those guys are all tainted......but even if they let them in....they will all have this * by their names.....

 

[Meathead]

those guys are all tainted......but even if they let them in....they will all have this * by their names.....

Brings up an interesting point. Who was the year HR leader, Maris or Ruth? The steroid guys don't count.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

With steroids, it's a bit like watching a trans-man compete with women in weightlifting.

It's sleazy. Bonds was belting 40 HRs when those who played by-the-book were in decline, as nature calls.

Bonds was already a HOF before he clearly roided up.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Brings up an interesting point. Who was the year HR leader, Maris or Ruth? The steroid guys don't count.

Just to be fair, Babe Ruth and Maris hit their HR's against 85 mph grooved fastball or curveballs.

 

[Meathead]

Just to be fair, Babe Ruth and Maris hit their HR's against 85 mph grooved fastball or curveballs.

I don't know if that is anymore relevant than saying the Athenians would not have won the Battle of Marathon against a modern day infantry division.

 

[Synthaholic]

No.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I think Rose and Garvey should both be in the Hall. The conduct of a player on the field is what should determine his inclusion or not.

In the case of those who took steroids, what they did on the field was artificially enhanced and, for that reason, they should not be considered for induction...

 

[Meathead]

Alcohol use, use of greenies and other stimulants were rampant in the early days of baseball. Just not reported.
You have no idea who was doing what..unless they cop to it.

The big difference is, I don't care. Watching the 1998 home run race between McGwire and Sosa was a lot of fun.
I won't let a bunch of "never played the game" sportswriters ruin for me.

Yeah, but Carlton who would not talk to the press but who never took steroids, was voted in on the first ballot none-the-less. He could not be refused.

 

[Oddball]

no

 

[Harry Dresden]

Brings up an interesting point. Who was the year HR leader, Maris or Ruth? The steroid guys don't count.

it should be ruth.....maris just had a great year.....ruth had great years a lot.....

 

[Meathead]

it should be ruth.....maris just had a great year.....ruth had great years a lot.....

That'snot the point. Ruth did it in 154 games, Maris 162, I think. Both without steroids which means they are the true leaders.