Should Drugs be Legalized?

[Indiana Oracle]

This is clearly a complex social issue, made more so by the Mexican border control matter now at hand.

Just about everyone concerned about the direction of our society would like this to go away, or at least stay out the sight of polite society. Meanwhile polite society’s children join right in; the poor even more so.

The Parade of Horribles
Drug criminals flourish. Hollywood, sports figures and everyone with money treats drugs as an affordable indulgence. Flower children from the 60’s don’t seem to care and they are running our higher education system. Law enforcement tries as it can, the justice system equivocates on the law. We work with other countries, we have quiet military operations.

We talk about pacifying Afghanistan when their principle domestic product is opium. Libertarians, who have some dubious views as do other political factions, are all for it but not on radar. And on it goes.

Now, we have Barbarians at the Gate of the Mexico border. There is no powerful political constituency for Washington to serve, and, with everything else that is going on, a general weariness in the public along with a great many who wonder why this was not fixed already.

Do We Want to Fight a War on Drugs?
There is no evidence of this being an issue which is taken seriously in Washington, across administrations. That usually signals that the enlightened self-interest of the Congress is being served elsewhere, to be kind about it.
Since this is an international phenomenon involving wealthy, casually interested populations as well as banana republic and lawless places, the idea of doing anything more than impeding flows is unrealistic.

But where would be today if, like prohibition, drugs were legal and controlled? By the word, controlled, I am referring to how liquor today is still sold out of state stores in several places.

What is your view?

 

[garyd]

The question is much too broad.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The "War on Drugs" hasn't worked, it's wasted billions of dollars, and it's unconstitutional. The question you have to ask yourself, however, is do you own your own body or does the government?

End the "War on Drugs," in other words.

 

[Article 15]

Not all of them.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm with Kevin, the responsibility of government, if we are truly free, ends with educating the people about their choices and regulating the flow to minors, as prescribed by the will of the people.

Unfortunately, the free market approach to some problems leaves unsightly bums in the street and other messes for the people to clean up.

-Joe

 

[mightypeon]

Well, the Netherlands seem to be quite fine (Marihuana is very legal) as is Germany (where Marihuana is decriminalized, you can smoke it, you can posses it, but you cannot sell it).

However, the flow to minors should be strongly regulated, and instant addicition things like Crack or Heroin should not be allowed.
I am not sure wether "medium" drugs, medium in terms of addictivity and bodily damage inflicted, like Cocaine or Speed should be treated, but I am in favor of creating gouverment programms to help people out of drug addictions by implementing a controlled withdrawal using substitutes.

I personally think that turning a drug addict into a semi productive member of society is one of the better uses of the Tax payers money.

 

[DavidS]

No. Absolutely not. All drugs should be illegal. All cigarettes, all marijuana, every single other drug - illegal. If a toaster oven catches fire and burns my hand, I can sue the manufacturer - because products that cause harm to people after usage of said product is illegal. All products that harm the user should be illegal. All drugs should be absolutely 100% illegal.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No. Absolutely not. All drugs should be illegal. All cigarettes, all marijuana, every single other drug - illegal. If a toaster oven catches fire and burns my hand, I can sue the manufacturer - because products that cause harm to people after usage of said product is illegal. All products that harm the user should be illegal. All drugs should be absolutely 100% illegal.

The difference being that the toaster oven incident is an accident, whereas you get into drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol realizing that they're bad for you. If you still choose to do them, then that was your choice. The government can't legislate morality, and shouldn't be suppressing freedom of choice.

 

[KittenKoder]

We already have thousands of legalized drugs as it is, if people are too lazy to ask their docs for those then fuck em, docs are more than happy to prescribe something.

 

[DavidS]

No. Absolutely not. All drugs should be illegal. All cigarettes, all marijuana, every single other drug - illegal. If a toaster oven catches fire and burns my hand, I can sue the manufacturer - because products that cause harm to people after usage of said product is illegal. All products that harm the user should be illegal. All drugs should be absolutely 100% illegal.

The difference being that the toaster oven incident is an accident, whereas you get into drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol realizing that they're bad for you. If you still choose to do them, then that was your choice. The government can't legislate morality, and shouldn't be suppressing freedom of choice.

This has nothing to do with freedom. An alzheimer's patient is not able to decide correct medical treatment for themselves - they need someone else to.

People who choose to do drugs are psychologically unable to decide rationally for themselves - they're mentally disabled. Just like a schizophrenic - they are not able to control their actions. If a depressed person refuses to take his or her medication to get better, they are doing so because of the depression - thus the sickness is causing their actions. Same thing with drug use. Their mental disability is causing them to do drugs. They are not in control of their actions.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No. Absolutely not. All drugs should be illegal. All cigarettes, all marijuana, every single other drug - illegal. If a toaster oven catches fire and burns my hand, I can sue the manufacturer - because products that cause harm to people after usage of said product is illegal. All products that harm the user should be illegal. All drugs should be absolutely 100% illegal.

The difference being that the toaster oven incident is an accident, whereas you get into drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol realizing that they're bad for you. If you still choose to do them, then that was your choice. The government can't legislate morality, and shouldn't be suppressing freedom of choice.

This has nothing to do with freedom. An alzheimer's patient is not able to decide correct medical treatment for themselves - they need someone else to.

People who choose to do drugs are psychologically unable to decide rationally for themselves - they're mentally disabled. Just like a schizophrenic - they are not able to control their actions. If a depressed person refuses to take his or her medication to get better, they are doing so because of the depression - thus the sickness is causing their actions. Same thing with drug use. Their mental disability is causing them to do drugs. They are not in control of their actions.

The people that I have known who chose to use drugs simply wanted to get high, no mental problems to speak of. They were very capable of making the choice rationally.

 

[garyd]

So how do you feel about nutbars hooped up on PCP running around the streets Kevin?

 

[editec]

I bring far more real benefit to the commonweal that the vast majority of people who have never smoked hemp, folks.

Of course, if one denies stoners opportunity to work at productive posts, even when they are clearly capable of doing so, then one creates a self fulfilling prophesy that stoners are not productive.

duh!

I remember when another self fulfilling prophesy was that WOMAN were incapable of assuming leadership positions, too.

See?, these idiots told themselves " Women are not in positions of leadership because they are, by natiure incapable of leading."

Of course, that myth took ignoring that women were denied opportunity to become leaders by men, as that fact was just one of those inconvenient truthes which men had to ignore in order for their world view to make sense, too, wasn't it?

"Still a man sees what he wants to see and he disregards the rest"
Paul Simon​

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So how do you feel about nutbars hooped up on PCP running around the streets Kevin?

Those who commit actual crimes should be dealt with accordingly. Those who get high and mind their own business have no effect on mine or any other person's life.

 

[garyd]

If you can manage the short memory loss and it doesn't impact your job peformance who cares? Interestingly enough DOT studies tend to indicate that Mary Janes effects linger on considerably longer than do those of most other drugs.

 

[editec]

If you can manage the short memory loss and it doesn't impact your job peformance who cares?

One would THINK that in a land which claims to be a meritocracy, NOBODY would care.

Of course since we do not even remotely live in a meritocracy, such myths are necessary to justify the existence of a ruling class which thrives by creating scapegoat classes to hide its own utter incompetence and venal behaviors.

Interestingly enough DOT studies tend to indicate that Mary Janes effects linger on considerably longer than do those of most other drugs.

I WISH the effects lasted considerably longer. What does last longer is our ability to discover that someone had smoked hemp - NOT the effects of having smoked it, FYI)

Another myth is that hemp truly more powerful than it was in the 1960s.

Sadly both those anti-hemp hysteria claims are bullshit.

Likewise the claim that hemp causes psychois.

Clinical Studies which are badly done might prove that to be true, but the reality on the ground (the statistics of a generation with 25,000,000 users, I mean) does NOT indicate any statistically significant rise in the incidence of psychosis.

More hysterical bad science supporting a lie, I fear.

Don't just take my word for it, by all mean do you own research on the incidence of psychoitic episodes in the last 40 years.

There has been no change in incidence in the last two generations since people in droves started smoking hemp.

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Well, the Netherlands seem to be quite fine (Marihuana is very legal) as is Germany (where Marihuana is decriminalized, you can smoke it, you can posses it, but you cannot sell it).

However, the flow to minors should be strongly regulated, and instant addicition things like Crack or Heroin should not be allowed.
I am not sure wether "medium" drugs, medium in terms of addictivity and bodily damage inflicted, like Cocaine or Speed should be treated, but I am in favor of creating gouverment programms to help people out of drug addictions by implementing a controlled withdrawal using substitutes.

I personally think that turning a drug addict into a semi productive member of society is one of the better uses of the Tax payers money.

Especially if the taxes used are collected on the legal sale of recreationally used drugs... IMHO

-Joe

 

[editec]

No taxing hemp only leads to another war on drugs under the guise of tax evasion.

Why?

Because the government will tax the ever loving shit out of hemp, thus forcing stoners to grow their own, thus making then tax cheats.

the ONLY sensible solution, at least when it comes to hem,p, which is, FYI the number one drug used by Americans, is to decriminalize it, then ignore the crap out of it.

Peraonally I suspect were we do do that, that the incidence of Americans smoking the stuff would rise dramatically for a brief time, then decline dramatically and stay down, too.

Just a theory, of course, but one I'd love to see put to the test.

 

[WillowTree]

No! Just tax the crap outta the people caught using drugs and those caught selling drugs.. keep em outta our prisons and tax the crap outta them.. Caught with a nickel bag.. That will 100.00 federal tax. Thank You man! Think of it as a "sin" tax, just as cigarettes and alcohol are..

 

[Indiana Oracle]

If the US is going to legalize drugs, I suggest it be wider than hemp, it should be treated exactly like alcohol. Laws governing public acts should also apply such as DUI. So should moonshine laws.

The all-bets-are-off propaganda that comes up in some of the public dialogue on this subject will not work. Does anyone seriously believe actual laws would be passed under such a model?