Sharing Youtube discussion about LA homeless camps

[georgephillip]

The number of actual families that are homeless, are very very small.

Family Homelessness in the United States: a State-by-State Snapshot - National Alliance to End Homelessness

 

[georgephillip]

Have you seen what happens in poor countries to these people? I was reading the story of a woman from Laos.... Laos if you remember went full on communist. She and her child, ended up sleeping on the fire escape of an apartment building for a year and half.

That's better than the US? Nah... not so much.

How did US Exceptionalism contribute to homelessness in Laos?

Death from below in the world’s most bombed country

 

[georgephillip]

No, Somali was not de-stabilized by US aggression.. I have Somali friends. There was nothing the US did, that caused warlords to start slaughtering each other.

US capitalists have been destabilizing Somalia since the end of the Cold War for all the usual reasons.

Sizing up Somalia: a new offshore oil frontier in the making

"Since the late 60s, civil unrest has prohibited the exploitation of Somalia’s offshore oil and gas resources.

"Now, however, after several years of relative peace, the government is making a bid to attract foreign investment to develop the country’s oil and gas riches.

"In May, Somalia’s Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources launched its first offshore licensing round, featuring up to seven blocks that can be bid for between August 2020 and March 2021."

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah, the day of hiring halls is long over. So are the days of Unions, because they destroyed themselves.

Lesson to learn... don't destroy your own employment in the name of worker rights.

Corporations and their useful political idiots destroyed unions in this country; once again, you blame the victims for their murder.

Ronald Reagan: The Union Buster

"Throughout the 1960’s and 70’s farmworkers in California were being organized by Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta, and the United Farmworkers.

"As Governor, Reagan had the opportunity to support the farmworkers on multiple occasions.

"Instead, he campaigned against the grape boycott, calling it immoral and attempted blackmail and appeared on TV eating grapes in defiance of the boycott.

"He also vetoed the Agricultural Labor Relations Act which would have given farmworkers the right to collectively bargain."

 

[georgephillip]

The story of Chris Gardner is one of a man who worked his butt off. Started off in poverty, from a broken family, ended up with a broken home, was EVEN HOMELESS, and a son to take care of

By your "logic" anyone can be a NFL star if they just work hard enough:

"Tennessee Titans star Michael Oher experienced periods of homelessness throughout his childhood. He was the subject of the Oscar-winning film The Blind Side, and wrote an autobiography called I Beat The Odds to help kids who are struggling on the streets and in foster care."

Successful Athletes Who Used to Be Homeless

 

[georgephillip]

Take Robert F Smith.

Robert F. Smith (investor) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Has a networth of $5 Billion.
Why didn't the FHA prevent that? Or government police prevent that? Or white people prevent that?

Your link:

"Smith was born to Dr. William Robert Smith and Dr. Sylvia Myrna Smith, who were both school teachers.[8] He grew up in a predominantly African American, middle-class neighborhood in Denver, Colorado...[8]"

"In high school, he applied for an internship at Bell Labs but was told the program was intended for college students. Smith persisted, calling each Monday for five months.

"When a student from M.I.T. did not show up, he got the position, and that summer he developed a reliability test for semiconductors."

Smith had two college educated professional parents who probably were never subject to government prohibitions against buying their home.

Smith himself is an exceptional individual with a family background unlike a vast majority of Black Americans.

Claiming everyone can match his accomplishments makes as much sense as saying everyone can play basketball like LeBron James.

 

[georgephillip]

It also has to do with broken families, and drug use, and not saving wisely with money, and not working your way up the economic ladder.

Because, as I've pointed out before, Blacks were discriminated against by all levels of government in ways that prevented them acquiring homeownership, which is the principal way middle-class families acquired wealth during the 1930s, '40s, and '50s. When you WHINE about broken families and drug use and not saving wisely you are blaming the victims of white supremacy for their economic fix.

 

[georgephillip]

Conservatives? Conservatives are the ones who fought for the end of slavery to begin with.

US conservatives argued human beings were their private property, so how did that "end slavery"?

"Black poverty enhanced opportunities for white families.

"White children attended schools bolstered by Black tax dollars and enjoyed readymade access to cheap Black labor, especially that of Black female domestics who were essentially blacklisted from other jobs. 1

"None of this was accidental.

"These interconnected inequalities were intentionally woven into the Southern system of racial apartheid to compound the wealth of one race at the expense of another."

Why White Southern Conservatives Need to Defend Confederate Monuments

 

[Andylusion]

1 in 30?

That sounds more like runaways, rather than an economic problem.
Also that would include battered women's shelters. Again, not an economic problem.

Domestic violence is another in a long line economic problems enhanced by capitalism.

Exposure to domestic violence costs US government $55 billion each year

"The federal government spends an estimated $55 billion annually on dealing with the effects of childhood exposure to domestic violence, according to new research by social scientists at Case Western Reserve University.

"The results of a study on the national economic impact of exposure to domestic violence—published in The Journal of Family Violence—showed higher health-care costs, higher crime rates and lower productivity in children as they aged."

So what does that have to do with capitalism?

Again, the poorest full time workers here in the US, live a higher standard of living, than the middle class of the rest of the world. By a wide margin too.

So, unless you think being wealthy causes domestic violence, what does any of this have to do with capitalism?

Domestic violence has to do with loss of fundamental morals. We need to start teaching the Bible in schools again.

 

[Andylusion]

It also has to do with broken families, and drug use, and not saving wisely with money, and not working your way up the economic ladder.

Because, as I've pointed out before, Blacks were discriminated against by all levels of government in ways that prevented them acquiring homeownership, which is the principal way middle-class families acquired wealth during the 1930s, '40s, and '50s. When you WHINE about broken families and drug use and not saving wisely you are blaming the victims of white supremacy for their economic fix.

No, I reject that, because unwed-motherhood was lower in the 1960s in black families, than it is today. Drug use among blacks was lower in the 1960s, than today. Broken families were fewer in the 1960s, than today.

By your logic, the reverse should be true.

As institutional racism declined rapidly, those problem (assuming they were caused by institutional racism like you claim) should have declined.

Instead the reverse happened. From being relatively rare in the racist past, now in the far less racists present, all those problems are huge.

So again, the facts simply don't support the claims.

 

[Andylusion]

Conservatives? Conservatives are the ones who fought for the end of slavery to begin with.

US conservatives argued human beings were their private property, so how did that "end slavery"?

"Black poverty enhanced opportunities for white families.

"White children attended schools bolstered by Black tax dollars and enjoyed readymade access to cheap Black labor, especially that of Black female domestics who were essentially blacklisted from other jobs. 1

"None of this was accidental.

"These interconnected inequalities were intentionally woven into the Southern system of racial apartheid to compound the wealth of one race at the expense of another."

Why White Southern Conservatives Need to Defend Confederate Monuments

US conservatives argued human beings were their private property, so how did that "end slavery"?

Factually not true. Conservatives were against slavery, and fought to end it.

You can't just label everyone you don't like "conservative" and then claim they stood for things they didn't. Conservatives, as I posted before, were the ones who wrote such songs as O Holy Night:

"Truly He taught us to love one another;
His law is love and His gospel is peace.
Chains shall He break for the slave is our brother;
And in His name all oppression shall cease."

That was always the conservative position.

 

[Andylusion]

The number of actual families that are homeless, are very very small.

Family Homelessness in the United States: a State-by-State Snapshot - National Alliance to End Homelessness

Wow... in a country of 330 Million, barely 60,000 families are homeless.... in a given moment of time?

Again, I worked at the shelter. The people who wanted out of there, got out. If you want to a place to live, you can generally find it.

Again, part of the problem is places like NY, that provide free housing to homeless. If you are going to give me a place to live, if I just end up homeless.... I'll be homeless.

We know people who have traveled to NYC, specifically because of the supports they give people who are homeless.

When you pay people to behave badly, more people will behave badly.

 

[Andylusion]

Have you seen what happens in poor countries to these people? I was reading the story of a woman from Laos.... Laos if you remember went full on communist. She and her child, ended up sleeping on the fire escape of an apartment building for a year and half.

That's better than the US? Nah... not so much.

How did US Exceptionalism contribute to homelessness in Laos?

Death from below in the world’s most bombed country

Are you suggesting that none of those military attacks were caused by hostile forces?

And by the way, no matter how much damage we did to Laos, Europe was completely ruined. Germany especially. By the 1980s, all of that had been fixed and restored under Capitalism.

Laos, if they are still living in ruins, suggests that Socialism didn't work.

Again, you can't blame things that happened 70 years ago, on results we see in the present.

By the way, I always find it interesting that you can easily blame the US intervention, but seem to ignore the support in bombs, land mines, and other weapons given to guerrilla fighters that slaughtered Laos citizens, backed by Soviet supported North Vietnam.

Millions die at the hands of socialists, and all you can do is blame the US, which wasn't trying to kill civilians like the Socialists did.

 

[Andylusion]

The story of Chris Gardner is one of a man who worked his butt off. Started off in poverty, from a broken family, ended up with a broken home, was EVEN HOMELESS, and a son to take care of

By your "logic" anyone can be a NFL star if they just work hard enough:

"Tennessee Titans star Michael Oher experienced periods of homelessness throughout his childhood. He was the subject of the Oscar-winning film The Blind Side, and wrote an autobiography called I Beat The Odds to help kids who are struggling on the streets and in foster care."

Successful Athletes Who Used to Be Homeless

Anyone can be successful. Yes. Maybe not an NFL player, sure. But yes, anyone can be successful in the US. Anyone. Absolutely anyone.

It's a matter of choice. I know a lady who worked at Walmart. She used Walmarts tuition reimbursement program, and over 5 years or some, got a degree. Now she's a civil engineer.

Anyone can succeed. Doesn't matter what race, or religion, or history you have. Anyone can do this.

I know guy who went to prison for armed robbery. He came out, joined an apprenticeship, and now is a pipe-fitter.

Anyone can succeed if they want to.

I know a guy who came here from Somali, and started driving big-rig. He first worked for a company. Then he bought his own truck, and became an owner-operator. Then he bought a second truck, and hired someone to drive it.

Now he has a small fleet of trucks, and makes $300,000 a year.

Anyone can succeed if they work hard, and work smart.

 

[Andylusion]

No, Somali was not de-stabilized by US aggression.. I have Somali friends. There was nothing the US did, that caused warlords to start slaughtering each other.

US capitalists have been destabilizing Somalia since the end of the Cold War for all the usual reasons.

Sizing up Somalia: a new offshore oil frontier in the making

"Since the late 60s, civil unrest has prohibited the exploitation of Somalia’s offshore oil and gas resources.

"Now, however, after several years of relative peace, the government is making a bid to attract foreign investment to develop the country’s oil and gas riches.

"In May, Somalia’s Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources launched its first offshore licensing round, featuring up to seven blocks that can be bid for between August 2020 and March 2021."

What you said was contradictory.

Civil unrest, made drilling for oil impossible for 60 years or whatever.

If the US wanted Somalian oil, why would we intentionally put the country in chaos, preventing us from drilling for oil?

The very fact we didn't take the oil, is proof that wasn't the goal. Further, we are going to pay them for oil, so.... what benefit is that to us?

You keep acting like we are taking people's oil... and I never once have seen anyone anywhere take the oil. They sell it, and we pay them. Like we do everyone. That's how voluntary exchange works.

It's funny because you were just complaining that we are NOT taking the oil from Venezuela. Now you are complaining that we ARE taking the oil from Somalia.

So which is it? Are we causing problems by legally buying oil people sell? Or are we causing problems by NOT buying oil people sell? Which is it?

Is the problem not buying oil, and there is nothing wrong in Somalia? Or is the problem we ARE buying oil, and there is nothing wrong in Venezuela?

You guys flip flop your position in every example to fit whatever narrative you want in the moment.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, the day of hiring halls is long over. So are the days of Unions, because they destroyed themselves.

Lesson to learn... don't destroy your own employment in the name of worker rights.

Corporations and their useful political idiots destroyed unions in this country; once again, you blame the victims for their murder.

Ronald Reagan: The Union Buster

"Throughout the 1960’s and 70’s farmworkers in California were being organized by Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta, and the United Farmworkers.

"As Governor, Reagan had the opportunity to support the farmworkers on multiple occasions.

"Instead, he campaigned against the grape boycott, calling it immoral and attempted blackmail and appeared on TV eating grapes in defiance of the boycott.

"He also vetoed the Agricultural Labor Relations Act which would have given farmworkers the right to collectively bargain."

The Air Traffic controls were not allowed to go on strike. Do you really want to live in a world, where people critical to the safe landing and operation of air craft, can just walk out on a strike?

You want planes full of hundreds of people, crashing into each other, and into the ground, so that people can demand a pay raise? And by the way, it's not like they don't earn good income. $90,000 isn't exactly starvation wages.

The air traffic controllers strike was a violation of law, which endangered thousands of people. Had nothing to do with Unions, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. Hope those fools are in the planes, when the air traffic controllers go on strikes, so they can sing the praises of the Union, while you crash into the earth and burn to death.

Don't be stupid.

"As Governor, Reagan had the opportunity to support the farmworkers on multiple occasions."
"Instead, he campaigned against the grape boycott, calling it immoral and attempted blackmail and appeared on TV eating grapes in defiance of the boycott."

Yeah I support that. Reagan was right about the entire thing.

Have you read the stories about that situation? Contrary to the lame rewrite of history in the movie, the Filipino workers were the ones that started and pushed the strike, not the Mexicans who were perfectly happy with their compensation.

Even more ironic, was that poor Mexicans who needed the money, were being attacked by Filipino strikers.

And then after the strike was declared victory, the Union system actually shut out most of the Filipino workers.

And of course if you pay employees more money, you can't afford as many employees, resulting in people losing their jobs. The number of grape workers declined after the "victory" of the Unions. In some cases, people even claim that the grape union workers were worse off in the 1990s, than they were when the Grape strike began.

And that's what we've seen all of the country. Unions destroy their members. The reason Hostess is non-union today, is because the Union that controlled the hostess plant, drove the plant into bankruptcy, and now it reopened as non-union, with all the former workers fired.

That's why unions have declined.

 

[georgephillip]

Further, name one Conservative pundit that has supported preventing blacks from owning homes in white neighborhoods?

You can just make up claims about other people, with zero support. That just makes you a liar.

What do "conservative pundits" have to do with the history of official racial discrimination in the US?

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a 'state-sponsored system of segregation.'"

 

[georgephillip]

No, that's a ridiculous claim. People do not go around murdering, because my great great great grampa couldn't get a house he didn't have the money to buy anyway. Very dumb claim.

Are you dumb enough to believe many African Americans outside of Dixie could not afford to buy houses decades ago when official government-sponsored racial discrimination denied them the opportunity?

"In fact, when African-Americans tried to buy homes in all-white neighborhoods or in mostly white neighborhoods, property values rose because African-Americans were more willing to pay more for properties than whites were, simply because their housing supply was so restricted and they had so many fewer choices.

"So the rationale that the Federal Housing Administration used was never based on any kind of study. It was never based on any reality."

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

 

[georgephillip]

Further, wealth can only be accumulated through home ownership under the following situation:

A: You have the money to pay for the house.

It doesn't matter if you are allowed to buy the house or not, if you do not spend less than you make, and pay the mortgage.

B: You not only have enough money to pay for the house, but also have the money to maintain the house.

Again, if you move slum people into new homes, they become slum homes.

What percentage of African Americans outside of Dixie earned enough money to buy a house 90 years ago; how does that number compare to today?

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"African-American families that were prohibited from buying homes in the suburbs in the 1940s and '50s and even into the '60s, by the Federal Housing Administration, gained none of the equity appreciation that whites gained.

"So ... the Daly City development south of San Francisco or Levittown or any of the others in between across the country, those homes in the late 1940s and 1950s sold for about twice national median income.

"They were affordable to working-class families with an FHA or VA mortgage.

"African-Americans were equally able to afford those homes as whites but were prohibited from buying them.

"Today those homes sell for $300,000 [or] $400,000 at the minimum, six, eight times national median income. ..."

"So in 1968 we passed the Fair Housing Act that said, in effect, 'OK, African-Americans, you're now free to buy homes in Daly City or Levittown' ... but it's an empty promise because those homes are no longer affordable to the families that could've afforded them when whites were buying into those suburbs and gaining the equity and the wealth that followed from that."

 

[georgephillip]

nd maybe you missed it, but before all the sanctions against Russia from their Ukraine activities and such, the standard of living for all average Russian citizens was drastically better today than it was under the USSR when people were killing each other for food. Cannibalism was a thing in Soviet Russia. I've read stories from people who lived in the USSR.

Yeah, you're right.
I missed that.
Got a link?

Study Looks at Mortality in Post-Soviet Era (Published 2009).

"The report, 'Mass Privatization and the Post-Communist Mortality Crisis: A Cross-National Analysis,' is by David Stuckler, a sociologist at Oxford; Lawrence King of Cambridge; and Martin McKee, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

"'Rapid mass privatization as an economic transition strategy was a crucial determinant of differences in adult mortality trends in post-Communist societies,' they wrote in the report. The effects of privatization were 'reduced if social capital was high..."

"From 1991 to 1994, life expectancy in Russia was reduced by five years. But life expectancy in Croatia and Poland improved in the same period. By last year, the life expectancy of Russian men was less than 60 years, compared with 67 years in 1985."