Sharing Youtube discussion about LA homeless camps

[georgephillip]

1. Lefty policies have chained them to reliance on government to garner votes.
2. Lefties have taught them victimhood instead of self-reliance and taking responsibility for themselves.

White supremacy used government to deny non-white minorities the right to buy homes even if they were as qualified as white applicants:

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"Today African-American incomes on average are about 60 percent of average white incomes. But African-American wealth is about 5 percent of white wealth.

"Most middle-class families in this country gain their wealth from the equity they have in their homes.

"So this enormous difference between a 60 percent income ratio and a 5 percent wealth ratio is almost entirely attributable to federal housing policy implemented through the 20th century."

You are blaming the victims of white supremacy for their current "reliance on government."

 

[Andylusion]

Further, name one Conservative pundit that has supported preventing blacks from owning homes in white neighborhoods?

You can just make up claims about other people, with zero support. That just makes you a liar.

What do "conservative pundits" have to do with the history of official racial discrimination in the US?

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a 'state-sponsored system of segregation.'"

Again.... name one conservative pundit that has supported preventing blacks from owning homes in white neighborhoods?

Name the conservative pundit. I didn't say post a history lesson on the New Deal.... which is true.... FDR was not a conservative. So that doesn't answer my question.

 

[Andylusion]

No, that's a ridiculous claim. People do not go around murdering, because my great great great grampa couldn't get a house he didn't have the money to buy anyway. Very dumb claim.

Are you dumb enough to believe many African Americans outside of Dixie could not afford to buy houses decades ago when official government-sponsored racial discrimination denied them the opportunity?

"In fact, when African-Americans tried to buy homes in all-white neighborhoods or in mostly white neighborhoods, property values rose because African-Americans were more willing to pay more for properties than whites were, simply because their housing supply was so restricted and they had so many fewer choices.

"So the rationale that the Federal Housing Administration used was never based on any kind of study. It was never based on any reality."

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

First your statement is contradictory. You said they were not able to buy any homes in white neighborhoods, and then say "property values rose because African-Americans were more willing to pay more for properties than whites were".

If they were prevented from buying homes, then logically they couldn't cause prices to rise. No one raises the asking price on a house, because people can't legally make an offer on the house. Doesn't make sense.

Regardless, this doesn't even address what I said. You claimed that violence TODAY is the result of policies from 80 years ago. Not true. No one loses their sense of right and wrong, because great great great grampa couldn't get a house in some specific neighborhood.

Not true. Simply not true.

 

[Andylusion]

nd maybe you missed it, but before all the sanctions against Russia from their Ukraine activities and such, the standard of living for all average Russian citizens was drastically better today than it was under the USSR when people were killing each other for food. Cannibalism was a thing in Soviet Russia. I've read stories from people who lived in the USSR.

Yeah, you're right.
I missed that.
Got a link?

Study Looks at Mortality in Post-Soviet Era (Published 2009).

"The report, 'Mass Privatization and the Post-Communist Mortality Crisis: A Cross-National Analysis,' is by David Stuckler, a sociologist at Oxford; Lawrence King of Cambridge; and Martin McKee, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

"'Rapid mass privatization as an economic transition strategy was a crucial determinant of differences in adult mortality trends in post-Communist societies,' they wrote in the report. The effects of privatization were 'reduced if social capital was high..."

"From 1991 to 1994, life expectancy in Russia was reduced by five years. But life expectancy in Croatia and Poland improved in the same period. By last year, the life expectancy of Russian men was less than 60 years, compared with 67 years in 1985."

The life expectancy in Russia was reduced, that's true... because Socialism collapsed. The idea that Capitalism, is like a switch... that just switch on and have magically fix everything, is insane. Changing from one economic system to another, either from Capitalism to Socialism, or Socialism to Capitalism, is going to have a crash and burn effect, before the new system takes hold.

We saw this when the Soviet Union first engaged in mass socialism.

26 Horrifying Photos Of The Ukrainian Famine That Killed Millions

The Ukrainians call the famine the “Holodomor,” a name that means “murder through starvation.”

allthatsinteresting.com

the Soviet government put up signs reminding the survivors: "To eat your own children is a barbarian act."

Why did they have to put up those signs? Because people were eating their children.

Similarly, in the 1970s to 1990s, the Soviet Union was starving to death.

A Country Haunted by Starvation Burns Its Food

Vladimir Putin’s directive to destroy illegally imported food goes against all the lessons of Russian history.

www.newyorker.com

​

A brief period when most people seemed to have enough to eat followed, only to give way to the crippling food shortages of the nineteen-seventies and the rations introduced in the late eighties. Then came the hell for many people that was the nineties, with its multitude experiences of hunger. Some people remember the utterly barren store shelves in 1991.​

Many people engaged in Cannibalism across the Soviet Union in the late 80s and 90s, the government... as all socialist governments do... made sure to censor the information.

No. 804: Russian Cannibalism

You can read through it....

CRIMEA:In March, 1996, police in the Crimean city of Sebastopol were called to investigate a murder. Nothing had prepared them for the carnage they discovered when they entered the home of a former convict and found the mutilated remains of human bodies being prepared for eating. The flat's owner, her mother and her boyfriend, had been stabbed to death by the 33-year-old suspect and their bodies neatly butchered. In the kitchen investigators found the internal organs of two victims in saucepans, and nearby on a plate a freshly roasted piece of human flesh.​

PERESTROIKA: Alarmingly, cannibalism is becoming way of life in the former Soviet Union. In the 1996 ten people were charged with killing and eating other people. Police estimate that at least 30 people were eaten that year.

Newspaper reports across the former Soviet Union speak of cases of vagrants being eaten, or their bodies being cut up and sold to unsuspecting passers-by. "We have information about cases where human flesh is sold in street markets; also when homeless people kill each other and sell the flesh. Every month we find corpses with missing body parts."

SIBERIA: In 1996 a man in the Siberian coal mining town of Kemerovo was arrested after he admitted killing and cutting up a friend, and using his flesh as the filling for pelmeni, a Russian version of ravioli which, coincidentally, is the favourite dish of the Yeltsin family. The scam was uncovered when rag-pickers scavanging through a garbage dump discovered a severed human head. Soon they discovered that the rest of the body had been minced, put into pelmeny, and sold at cut-price prices in the local market.

KYARGYZSTAN: Russia's most industrious cannibal, Nikolai Dzhurmongaliev is believed to have killed up to 100 women, and served many of them to his dinner guests. Nikolai used at least 47 of his victims to make ethnic dishes for his neighbors in the Russian republic of Kyargyzstan. When arrested Nikolai pointed out that two women could provide enough delicate meat to keep him going for a week.

PRISON: Twice last year convicts in overcrowded prisons killed and ate their cellmates because they claimed they were hungry and wanted to relieve overcrowding. Criminal experts said that most cases of cannibalism in Russia were part of the general rise of serial killings, and because of Russia's mounting economic and social problems.​

People throughout Russia were engaged in Cannibalism. The stores were empty. Only the Soviet elite with private stores for party members, could get real food.

This is yet another example of something well documented. I don't know how people like you, who proclaim the value of socialism, can routinely be so uneducated about the ideology you claim to support.

 

[Andylusion]

1. Lefty policies have chained them to reliance on government to garner votes.
2. Lefties have taught them victimhood instead of self-reliance and taking responsibility for themselves.

White supremacy used government to deny non-white minorities the right to buy homes even if they were as qualified as white applicants:

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"Today African-American incomes on average are about 60 percent of average white incomes. But African-American wealth is about 5 percent of white wealth.

"Most middle-class families in this country gain their wealth from the equity they have in their homes.

"So this enormous difference between a 60 percent income ratio and a 5 percent wealth ratio is almost entirely attributable to federal housing policy implemented through the 20th century."

You are blaming the victims of white supremacy for their current "reliance on government."

And yet today, Asian Americans have a higher standard of living, and income, than white Americans.

So explain that? If all this nonsense about racial policies back 80 years prevented Blacks from being wealthy today.... then explain why Asians who were also treated unequally in the past, are now more wealthy with a higher income, than Whites today?

You can't explain that.

I can. Asians are not sitting around blaming all their failures today, on myths of the past. They are simply working hard, getting an education, and not making excuses for themselves, and thus they have a better standard of living than whites.

 

[georgephillip]

Fact is, the poorest people in our country today, are doing far better than they were in the 1970s, by any economic measure, and far better than 99% of the world.

A single minimum wage job in the 1970s paid enough to cover market rents with enough left over to maintain a car; that is no longer the case in this country. The US currently has about 4% of the world's population and controls around 25% of global wealth, so how does that amount to doing better than 99% of the world?

 

[georgephillip]

And yet today, Asian Americans have a higher standard of living, and income, than white Americans.

How are you defining standard of living?

"Blacks are more than twice as likely as whites to live in poverty. 11 In 2014, about a quarter (26%) of blacks were poor, compared with 10% of whites.

"The black-white poverty gap has narrowed somewhat since the mid-1970s, when 30% of blacks were living below the poverty line – a proportion nearly four times the share of whites living in poverty (8%)."

Demographic trends and economic well-being

 

[georgephillip]

So explain that? If all this nonsense about racial policies back 80 years prevented Blacks from being wealthy today.... then explain why Asians who were also treated unequally in the past, are now more wealthy with a higher income, than Whites today?

Maybe it's their "solid two-parent family structures" or their enormous emphasis on education, or maybe you're just substituting one racist trope for another?

The notion that black failure and Asian success can't be explained by inequities and racism allows white America to avoid their responsibility for addressing systemic racism or the damage it continues to inflict.

Asian success owes more the role selective recruitment of highly educated Asian immigrants has played especially when its contrasted with more than two centuries of black enslavement followed by another hundred years of Jim Crow.

Only those who are ignorant enough to imagine hard work and family values can overcome the legacy of chattel slavery and redlining resort to the "model minority" myth to justify continued systemic racism against Black Americans.

 

[Andylusion]

Fact is, the poorest people in our country today, are doing far better than they were in the 1970s, by any economic measure, and far better than 99% of the world.

A single minimum wage job in the 1970s paid enough to cover market rents with enough left over to maintain a car; that is no longer the case in this country. The US currently has about 4% of the world's population and controls around 25% of global wealth, so how does that amount to doing better than 99% of the world?

Don't work for minimum wage. Minimum wage should never be an issue even worth discussing, because people should move up from minimum wage.

In Denmark, they have no minimum wage, and yet McDonald's employees are paid like $16/hours last I checked.

Why does McDonald's pay $16/hour, when there is no minimum wage?

You'll find some idiots claiming it has to do with Unions. This is not true. McDonald's workers are not unionized in Europe or in the US. If you find such articles claiming that, they are simply lying.

The reason McDonald's pays $16/hours is because that is the market rate for labor. If they pay less, people don't work there.

The solution to people earning low wages in the US, is people not working for low wages. Get a degree. Get a skills. Learn to do something that has a higher value.

When McDonald's can't find workers willing to work for $10/hours, they will pay more money.

Raising the minimum wage today, will simply make it impossible for low-wage workers to find jobs. We need those McDonald jobs, because we have so many people with no skills.

Get skills. Get a degree. Get a trade skill. Get something, and go earn more money.

Waiting on government to fix your income, is directly one of the causes that Black people earn less than white people. Everyone that waits around for others to fix their lives, ends up with their lives not fixed.

Don't work for minimum wage. Then you don't need to worry about what the minimum wage is, because you'll never work at that wage.

I have only one time in my entire life, worked for minimum wage. It was the first month I worked at McDonald's, when I was still in high school, as a part time worker. As soon as I was there one month, I earned more than minimum wage. And I have never worked for minimum wage since that time.

As for doing better than 99% of the rest of the world... that's a fact.

Have you been to Italy? I have. Our poorest of poor people, have more wealth, than some of the middle class of Italy.

Have you been to Spain? I have. Full time working people, generally have a better life, than the middle class of Spain.

Have you been to Greece? I have. One guy driving truck full time, has a life the middle class of Greece could only dream of.

And then when you go to anywhere outside of Europe, the gap between the US poor, and middle class of the rest of the world, is ridiculous.

Why do you think so many are trying to get into the US, if things are "so bad" for the US middle class?

Because it's not. We live in a wealthy dream world, compared to the rest of the nations.

I've been to middle class apartments in the London UK, where people strung wires inside their apartment to hang their clothes on to dry, because people can't afford driers, and drive tiny 3-wheeled cars, because they can't afford gasoline.

 

[Andylusion]

So explain that? If all this nonsense about racial policies back 80 years prevented Blacks from being wealthy today.... then explain why Asians who were also treated unequally in the past, are now more wealthy with a higher income, than Whites today?

Maybe it's their "solid two-parent family structures" or their enormous emphasis on education, or maybe you're just substituting one racist trope for another?

The notion that black failure and Asian success can't be explained by inequities and racism allows white America to avoid their responsibility for addressing systemic racism or the damage it continues to inflict.

Asian success owes more the role selective recruitment of highly educated Asian immigrants has played especially when its contrasted with more than two centuries of black enslavement followed by another hundred years of Jim Crow.

Only those who are ignorant enough to imagine hard work and family values can overcome the legacy of chattel slavery and redlining resort to the "model minority" myth to justify continued systemic racism against Black Americans.

Maybe it's their "solid two-parent family structures" or their enormous emphasis on education

The notion that black failure and Asian success can't be explained by inequities and racism allows white America to avoid their responsibility for addressing systemic racism or the damage it continues to inflict.

Well, theories are proven false, when hard facts contradict the claims.

So I don't really care what your excuses are... the facts contradict the theory.

Fact is, Asians were heavily discriminated against in the past. No question about it.

Ironically one of the first pushes for the minimum wage, was specifically to shut out Chinese Asian labor, because the people of the past were honest enough to admit that minimum wage laws kill employment.

Regardless.... the fact remains that Asian today on average, have a higher standard of living than white people in this country.

So you have two groups that were heavily discriminated against, and yet one group not only over came it, but became the most wealthy people group on average in the US, and the other wallows in poverty.

If racism is the key factor, then this is impossible since both were victims of racism.

Instead the key factors are just as you said yourself.... family based moral standards, and a high regard for education. Which is exactly true. That is a thousand times more important, than some government policy from almost 100 years ago.

Only those who are ignorant enough to imagine hard work and family values can overcome the legacy of chattel slavery and redlining resort to the "model minority" myth to justify continued systemic racism against Black Americans.

Again, an ideology based on cold hard facts, is not ignorance. If anything, denying the cold hard facts, in favor of ideology, is more an ignorance based view.

 

[georgephillip]

n Denmark, they have no minimum wage, and yet McDonald's employees are paid like $16/hours last I checked.

Why does McDonald's pay $16/hour, when there is no minimum wage?

Because there's little difference between minimum and average wage in welfare states like Denmark?

Average and Minimum Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark).

"Minimum Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark
There is no official minimum salary in Copenhagen and in Denmark as a whole. However, as of 2020 most minimum wages in the country hover around 110 DKK per hour (roughly 16 .60 US dollars).

"The average working week in Denmark is of 37 hours. The expected minimum salary in Copenhagen for a full time position (gross) is of around 17000 DKK, or 2580 USD per month.

"It is important to remember that these are gross figures and taxes are ridiculously high in Denmark (in some cases, above 50%).

"Average Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark
As in most highly developed welfare states, the difference between the minimum and average salary tends to be very low. According to numbeo, the average salary in Copenhagen is of around 3120 US dollars after tax, roughly 21280 DKK.

How do average out-of-pocket expenses for health care compare between Denmark and the US?

 

[georgephillip]

The reason McDonald's pays $16/hours is because that is the market rate for labor. If they pay less, people don't work there.

The "market" is a much different concept in a highly developed welfare state like Denmark, particularly when compared to the "free" market US model, so you're comparing apples to oranges when you attempt to claim that union influence on workers' rights is the same in both countries.

 

[georgephillip]

Waiting on government to fix your income, is directly one of the causes that Black people earn less than white people. Everyone that waits around for others to fix their lives, ends up with their lives not fixed.

When the for-profit private sector can't provide enough living wage jobs for those willing and able to work, government must be willing to hire.

New Deal - Wikipedia

 

[Andylusion]

n Denmark, they have no minimum wage, and yet McDonald's employees are paid like $16/hours last I checked.

Why does McDonald's pay $16/hour, when there is no minimum wage?

Because there's little difference between minimum and average wage in welfare states like Denmark?

Average and Minimum Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark).

"Minimum Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark
There is no official minimum salary in Copenhagen and in Denmark as a whole. However, as of 2020 most minimum wages in the country hover around 110 DKK per hour (roughly 16 .60 US dollars).

"The average working week in Denmark is of 37 hours. The expected minimum salary in Copenhagen for a full time position (gross) is of around 17000 DKK, or 2580 USD per month.

"It is important to remember that these are gross figures and taxes are ridiculously high in Denmark (in some cases, above 50%).

"Average Salary in Copenhagen, Denmark
As in most highly developed welfare states, the difference between the minimum and average salary tends to be very low. According to numbeo, the average salary in Copenhagen is of around 3120 US dollars after tax, roughly 21280 DKK.

How do average out-of-pocket expenses for health care compare between Denmark and the US?

There is no official minimum salary in Copenhagen and in Denmark as a whole

Correct. There is no minimum wage.

The expected minimum salary in Copenhagen for a full time position (gross) is of around 17000 DKK, or 2580 USD per month.

Also correct. Because the labor market is tight, and the supply of low skill labor is low... even low-skill jobs pay a high wage. Which is exactly what I said before.

Prices are set by supply and demand. Lower supply of low-skill labor = higher wages. This is normal economics that works around the world.

There is no union. There is no minimum wage. There is no welfare (I'll get to that in a minute). The reason why people expect a minimum salary of $2,000 is because if they don't get paid that, they find something else that pays more. They get a degree, or they get a trade skill, or they do something that pays more.

Exactly what I told you before.

Because there's little difference between minimum and average wage in welfare states like Denmark?

Denmark doesn't have welfare. You didn't know that? There is no welfare in Denmark.

Denmark only has unemployment compensation. And that is 60% of your average wage, over the past 5 years.

So if you only make $20,000 a year, and you get laid off, then you will get $12,000. And that lasts for exactly 12 months. After 12 months, you starve or you work. And you can't qualify for unemployment compensation until you have worked a full time job, for at least 2 years if I remember right.

But there is no welfare. That's a fiction made up by people who never lived in Denmark.

So, no that is not the reason McDonald's is paying people $16/hour.

The reason they are paying that, is because if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to find employees, because they would find something more valuable to do with their time.

Which is exactly the solution in the US. The solution is not to have a toddler melt down about McDonald's not paying enough. The solution is for people in the US to go find other work. And yes, you can find other work.

I did. I have no degree, no training, no education, and I'm making more than $16/hour right now. Find something to do that pays more.

 

[Andylusion]

Waiting on government to fix your income, is directly one of the causes that Black people earn less than white people. Everyone that waits around for others to fix their lives, ends up with their lives not fixed.

When the for-profit private sector can't provide enough living wage jobs for those willing and able to work, government must be willing to hire.

New Deal - Wikipedia

Which caused a depression and recession.

This the problem with your logic. Yes, government can hire people, and pay them tons of money.

Where does government get that money? From the people. So it's like saying you want me to give you $100, by reaching into your back pocket, and yanking out your billfold, removing $120, and giving you $100, and then you praise me for my benevolence.

In order for government to give you $100.... the government has to take $120 from you, to give you that $100.

So you end up poorer, while praising the people who made you poor.

Most economists that have research the depression era admit that Hoover/FDR policies dragged out the depression, and recession for an additional 8 years.

How? Because you have to increase taxes, which takes money out of the economy.

Again, we saw this in Greece. The Greek government had so many train mechanics hired to run their mass transit system, that they could have had a train mechanic assigned to each individual train car.

Now did government create lots of high paying jobs? Sure. Meanwhile the citizens kept having higher and higher taxes, and were living poorer and poorer until the entire country imploded.

And then when the money ran out, not only were they not getting a living wage from the government, they were getting no wages from anywhere.

Better to get a low wage, than no wage at all.

 

[Andylusion]

The reason McDonald's pays $16/hours is because that is the market rate for labor. If they pay less, people don't work there.

The "market" is a much different concept in a highly developed welfare state like Denmark, particularly when compared to the "free" market US model, so you're comparing apples to oranges when you attempt to claim that union influence on workers' rights is the same in both countries.

No it's not. In fact, the minister of Denmark had to tell everyone that (after Sanders lied about it), that Denmark is a capitalist market economy.



It's exactly the same concept. In fact, Denmark is MORE capitalist free-market than the US.

Index of Economic Freedom: All Country Scores | The Heritage Foundation

Explore the Index of Economic Freedom to gauge global impacts of liberty and free markets. Discover the powerful link between economic freedom and progress. The 31st edition, once again, illustrates key factors shaping our world's landscape. From @Heritage

www.heritage.org

Denmark is 8th on the freedom index. The measure of how free, how capitalist, and how open market you are.

The US is 17th.

So no, it's not Apples and Oranges at all. It's Capitalism vs more capitalism.

 

[georgephillip]

Which caused a depression and recession.

Capitalism caused both.
Every four to seven years, on average, US capitalism fails and millions of people lose their jobs, homes, and life savings. At the same time a few well-connected parasites see their net worth skyrocket. Socialize cost. Privatize profit.

 

[georgephillip]

Where does government get that money? From the people. So it's like saying you want me to give you $100, by reaching into your back pocket, and yanking out your billfold, removing $120, and giving you $100, and then you praise me for my benevolence.

Government creates money by spending.
Look at the trillions of dollars "spent" by the Federal Reserve over the last twelve months propping up major Wall Street banks if you're still ignorant about the universal characteristics of a sovereign currency.

MODERN MONEY: The way a sovereign currency “works”

 

[georgephillip]

Denmark is 8th on the freedom index. The measure of how free, how capitalist, and how open market you are.

Are you saying capitalism = freedom?
Singapore has more freedom than any other state in existence?
Thanks for confirming capitalism's penchant for authoritarian rule.

 

[georgephillip]

Denmark doesn't have welfare. You didn't know that? There is no welfare in Denmark.

Denmark only has unemployment compensation. And that is 60% of your average wage, over the past 5 years.

Denmark is a Nordic welfare state in that its government undertakes to protect the health and well-being of its citizens by means of grants, pensions, and other benefits. The modern welfare state emerged in reaction to capitalism's first major global financial failure, i.e., the Great Depression.

Nordic model - Wikipedia

"The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1]

"This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining[2] based on the economic foundations of social corporatism,..."