Serious questions for Trump supporters regarding this impeachment thing

[Slade3200]

Not according to the constitution. The Congress has the power to investigate and decide if a president has acted in a way that violates his oath of office or abuses his power. They vote for impeachment. That’s the legal process. Many feel that trump has abused his power with this Ukraine business so that’s where we are. This is how the system works. I personally think it’s overkill but it certainly isn’t illegal and Trump certainly crossed some lines. No doubt about that.

So which line did he cross? Impeachment is not a legal process, it's a political process.

Yes agreed. Those who want him impeached think he abused the power of his office when he leveraged military aid to solicit an investigation into Biden. Others thought the muller report had enough obstruction to justify impeachment.

He never leveraged military aid. Again, point this out to me in the transcript. Biden threatened aid, not Trump. Perhaps the problem is you are confusing the two events.

Biden threatened a loan to push an agenda sanctioned by our government and our allies. That’s a whole different bowl of potatoes. Trump leveraged the aid by freezing it, against the will of congress, then while discussing it with the leader of Ukraine he asked for a favor which involved personal business to help his campaign. Don’t play dumb Ray. It’s clear as day. Go read the transcript

Yes, Trump did freeze the money, but for the reason he wanted others in the UN to pony up their share. Plus he froze it a week before that phone call was even made.

It is a different bowl of potatoes. The guy Biden was after was pursuing the company Hunter worked for. Under those conditions, Biden should have recused himself from the project. Biden said it himself. He said that DumBama sent various people out to do various things. He was picked for the Ukraine situation which I find hard to believe was any kind of accident.

Do you think the US government and our Allies all wanted this prosecutor out because he was looking into a company Biden’s son was on the board for? So what’s the theory... they all came together and made up an excuse to call the prosecutor soft on corruption just to cover for Biden? Is that what you’re going with?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

You have to remember we Republicans take out our anger differently than those on the left.

When the left gets pissed off, they have protests, riots in the street, destroying private and public property. We on the right get so pissed off that we make sure to make it to the polls hell over high water.

Not to worry. The last thing we Republicans will do is become complacent. If you don't believe me, just check out the standing room only events where Trump appears, compared to Biden who can't pack a high school cafeteria.

Again, I hope you're right. maybe you are. All the better.
I think the Left does the same though. They came out in swarms for Obama and they are mad as hell at Trump (only because the media tells them to be)

As long as the Right realizes the seriousness of the attack from the Left.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So which line did he cross? Impeachment is not a legal process, it's a political process.

Yes agreed. Those who want him impeached think he abused the power of his office when he leveraged military aid to solicit an investigation into Biden. Others thought the muller report had enough obstruction to justify impeachment.

He never leveraged military aid. Again, point this out to me in the transcript. Biden threatened aid, not Trump. Perhaps the problem is you are confusing the two events.

Biden threatened a loan to push an agenda sanctioned by our government and our allies. That’s a whole different bowl of potatoes. Trump leveraged the aid by freezing it, against the will of congress, then while discussing it with the leader of Ukraine he asked for a favor which involved personal business to help his campaign. Don’t play dumb Ray. It’s clear as day. Go read the transcript

Yes, Trump did freeze the money, but for the reason he wanted others in the UN to pony up their share. Plus he froze it a week before that phone call was even made.

It is a different bowl of potatoes. The guy Biden was after was pursuing the company Hunter worked for. Under those conditions, Biden should have recused himself from the project. Biden said it himself. He said that DumBama sent various people out to do various things. He was picked for the Ukraine situation which I find hard to believe was any kind of accident.

Ok, let’s go with that. How does cutting off aid to Ukraine incentivize our UN allies to pay more? And why did he unfreeze it before anybody paid more? Did he reach out to other country’s to pay more or was the freeze some
Kind of subliminal thing?

He didn't cut off anything. He temporarily froze it. Ukraine is still a pretty shady government even with Zelensky. It makes sense to step back and investigate where your money is going to.

Again, Trump froze that money a week before the phone call. Nowhere did Trump ever threaten to withhold that money if Ukraine didn't cooperate with his request.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No you didn't but that's fine.
If you put any thought into it what I said was obvious. You are reacting, not thinking.
Bye.

Quite frankly you're acting childish and didn't add anything worthwhile. If you have a beef with me then grow up and explain it. I know what you intended and it's silly.
Or, take your ball and run home. Your choice.
Whatever.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have to remember we Republicans take out our anger differently than those on the left.

When the left gets pissed off, they have protests, riots in the street, destroying private and public property. We on the right get so pissed off that we make sure to make it to the polls hell over high water.

Not to worry. The last thing we Republicans will do is become complacent. If you don't believe me, just check out the standing room only events where Trump appears, compared to Biden who can't pack a high school cafeteria.

Again, I hope you're right. maybe you are. All the better.
I think the Left does the same though. They came out in swarms for Obama and they are mad as hell at Trump (only because the media tells them to be)

As long as the Right realizes the seriousness of the attack from the Left.

I think this is where a possible impeachment may be in our favor. If Dem voters feel satisfied with impeachment, they are the ones who will lose their will to vote. It will only encourage our side to get out there.

 

[Slade3200]

Yes of course you have a right to money you earn and the gov has a right to tax it. Hopefully as little as possible if I could have things my way

According to socialists no individual deserves any money that they earned, deadbeats deserve other peoples money

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Do you think what Biden said was some what questionable?

I think Biden acted in coordination with our government and that of our Allies. So the motives you assign to him you have to assign to everybody.

Now if Biden went rogue and threatened to pull the loan to fire a guy without the sanction of our government then hell yes that would be inappropriate. But there is ZERO EVIDENCE that happened. Your story is a fabrication.

 

[Slade3200]

Honestly man, I don’t think you’d know reality if it smacked you directly on the forehead. The whistler blower was the catalyst, followed by the DOJ keeping it from Congress, and the spark that lit the fuse was genius Giuliani on Cuomos show when he went off like a lunatic

The whistle blower, was a non-event. We've gone through it. The whistle blower knew even less about the phone call, than we know right now. The report was effectively a massive nothing-burger. Much like the Mueller report was a nothing-burger.

The report contained references to news articles, and hear-say. That's it. In short it was "I heard.... " and "There was a call...." and "Some people said....".

That whistle blower report was remarkable in only one way.... how little it had in the way of facts.

So why was it withheld? I'm convinced because either Trump, or someone in the Trump administration knew that delaying the release of this report, would be a brilliant political move. They knew that he left-wing, which has been both rabid and delusional in their attempts to destroy Trump, would toss themselves like a suicide cult, on this sword of their own making.

And they did. I have a hard time believing that Trump himself was this smart... but someone led the entire left-lemming-wing straight to a cliff, and encouraged them as they jumped to their deaths.

So let me clarify....

If there is something more here... and new evidence comes out showing illegal activity, then Trump is doomed, and I'm all for it.

But as things stand right now at this moment.... this will destroy the Democrats, and their lemming followers.

Trump is in melt down mode. His diehards probably love it but for normal people when our POTUS sends close to 50 tweets in 24 hours and brings up things like civil war, treason, confronting the whistleblower, White House spy’s etc etc etc it get real old. If we are talking about political strategy then I’m not seeing the brilliance from trump here I’m seeing a tail spin.

Oh good grief. You act like Trump wasn't a drama queen until now. This is what the man does. Chill out, and move on.

No shit, which is why he has faced such stark opposition since he entered politics. He is crossing lines left and right and even his own friends and supporters in congress are starting to speak out against his meltdowns. The wall is cracking. It isn’t pretty

Hold up.... "That" is why he has faced such stark opposition?

Obama was opposed.
Bush was opposed.
Clinton was opposed.
Bush Sr. was opposed.
Reagan was opposed.
Carter was opposed.

All of them... ALL of them... faced 'stark opposition'.

You are telling me that if Trump had been this refined upstanding person, like Mitt Romney, that the Democrats would not have opposed every single thing he did? Like cutting taxes, reducing regulation, moving the embassy to the capital of Israel, opposing N.Korea, and canceling the Iran "go-ahead-and-build-a-bomb" deal?

Nah, the left would have opposed every single thing, and done so with just as much vitriol and hate. And I know this because Mitt Romney was by any accurate measure, a really decent guy. The left wing savaged the man brutally, and said he was going to put black people back in chains.

That's simply the kind of people the left-wing is. Trump would be viciously opposed and attack, no matter what kind of man he was. That's what you get for being scummy to people, you end up with only scummy people around you. Too bad, so sad, sucks to be you.

Of course he would have been opposed but like those before him there would be some civility and respect and opportunity to get stuff done on a bipartisan basis. There is a respectable way to engage with opposition, trump isnt interested in that. He is a bully and that’s how he runs thing. Civility seems to have eroded away at this point.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I think this is where a possible impeachment may be in our favor. If Dem voters feel satisfied with impeachment, they are the ones who will lose their will to vote. It will only encourage our side to get out there.

True. I know that all this nonsense has aggravated me.
I'm sure many others as well.

 

[Slade3200]

Yes agreed. Those who want him impeached think he abused the power of his office when he leveraged military aid to solicit an investigation into Biden. Others thought the muller report had enough obstruction to justify impeachment.

He never leveraged military aid. Again, point this out to me in the transcript. Biden threatened aid, not Trump. Perhaps the problem is you are confusing the two events.

Biden threatened a loan to push an agenda sanctioned by our government and our allies. That’s a whole different bowl of potatoes. Trump leveraged the aid by freezing it, against the will of congress, then while discussing it with the leader of Ukraine he asked for a favor which involved personal business to help his campaign. Don’t play dumb Ray. It’s clear as day. Go read the transcript

Yes, Trump did freeze the money, but for the reason he wanted others in the UN to pony up their share. Plus he froze it a week before that phone call was even made.

It is a different bowl of potatoes. The guy Biden was after was pursuing the company Hunter worked for. Under those conditions, Biden should have recused himself from the project. Biden said it himself. He said that DumBama sent various people out to do various things. He was picked for the Ukraine situation which I find hard to believe was any kind of accident.

Ok, let’s go with that. How does cutting off aid to Ukraine incentivize our UN allies to pay more? And why did he unfreeze it before anybody paid more? Did he reach out to other country’s to pay more or was the freeze some
Kind of subliminal thing?

He didn't cut off anything. He temporarily froze it. Ukraine is still a pretty shady government even with Zelensky. It makes sense to step back and investigate where your money is going to.

Again, Trump froze that money a week before the phone call. Nowhere did Trump ever threaten to withhold that money if Ukraine didn't cooperate with his request.

Wait now your saying he froze it to investigate the corruption in Ukraine? I thought we were going with the other excuse, trying to get other countries to pay more. How about you address what I said about that before spinning to the next topic.

 

[Slade3200]

Yes of course you have a right to money you earn and the gov has a right to tax it. Hopefully as little as possible if I could have things my way

According to socialists no individual deserves any money that they earned, deadbeats deserve other peoples money

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Lol
Only a fool think socialism is worth a shit

Did you think I said it was worth a shit? Are you drunk?

 

[Slade3200]

Yes of course you have a right to money you earn and the gov has a right to tax it. Hopefully as little as possible if I could have things my way

According to socialists no individual deserves any money that they earned, deadbeats deserve other peoples money

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Tell us the difference. And try not to sound stupid.

There is a neat feature on phones and web browsers where you can highlight a word and then find the definition. Try it

 

[Slade3200]

Trump is in melt down mode. His diehards probably love it but for normal people when our POTUS sends close to 50 tweets in 24 hours and brings up things like civil war, treason, confronting the whistleblower, White House spy’s etc etc etc it get real old. If we are talking about political strategy then I’m not seeing the brilliance from trump here I’m seeing a tail spin.

/----/ President Trump is driving the chaos. He's playing the libtards like a fiddle. By releasing the transcript, he derailed the lib narrative forcing Schiff to litteraly make up a conversation between Trump and the Ukraine President.
"We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked."

Your talking about the piece he called parody? Did you think he was trying to pass that off as an actual quote. That one when right over your head I guess

It only became a parody after a Republican pointed out he was lying.

He might have gotten away with it if not for the transcript being made public. But since it is public, only the Democrats will believe what he said. After all, Democrats don't think for themselves, they are only told what to think which is why he pulled it off.

Holy shit Ray.. you too?! You really think age was trying to pass that off as Trumps actual words?! Go watch the video again, this is going right over your head

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

Christ Ray, you’re dumber than I thought. Here’s a tip when somebody says

“Shorn of its rambling character and in not so many words, this is the essence of what the president communicates”

It usually means what they say next is not an exact quote it is an interpretation of it.

You really need to start thinking for yourself

Opinion: Adam Schiff's riff on Trump's Ukraine call was more truth than parody, but still unwise

 

[dblack]

According to socialists no individual deserves any money that they earned, deadbeats deserve other peoples money

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Tell us the difference. And try not to sound stupid.

There is a neat feature on phones and web browsers where you can highlight a word and then find the definition. Try it

Nothin? No one understands socialism but you, and you're not telling. Way to go!

 

[Faun]

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

Minor offenses? You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury. I guarantee you won't get the same treatment as Bill Clinton did under the law.

"You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury."

Scooter Libby tried that -- and was found guilty.

First, you yahoo's cheered when Bush commuted his sentence.

Then y'all did cartwheels when Trump gave him a full pardon.

Your shit doesn't fly around here.

You are comparing direct knowledge vs process crimes. It's one of the reasons Trump never accepted being interviewed by Mueller. You can choke anybody up by bringing up things they might have forgotten about, perhaps dates, places, whatever.

They knew all along that Richard Armitage was the real leaker. And what happened to him????

So of course Bush commuted his sentence. It was a witch hunt right from the beginning. Now would you like to compare what Clinton was sentenced to compared to Libby????

Scooter was the original leaker. But it was the reporter with whom Armitage leaked who actually ran with the story and published it.

Regardless.... Libby intentionally lied to federal investigators, was tried & convicted of perjury and you rightards proved you don't actually give a shit about perjury. Shit, even after begin convicted, here you are still defending Libby.

Maybe now you realize what a flaming goof you look like saying, "Minor offenses? You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury. I guarantee you won't get the same treatment as Bill Clinton did under the law."

 

[Faun]

I'm not worried at all. Now if our economy wasn't the pride of the world, you may have greater concern. But people are making more money, they are paying less taxes, no longer victims of Commie Care fines, and more jobs than Americans to fill them.
Voters will always vote for what's best for them personally.

Damn Ray.....

Do you realize you just described Venezuela only a few years before Hugo and the Left plunged the country into chaos?
Venezuelans didn't elect Chavez.....OR Maduro....corruption did. Good thing we don't have that here.

Sadly, I feel most on the Right are also "Not worried at all". In fact so many are so relaxed and sure, they feel their participation won't even be needed in 2020.
There'll be PLENTY of votes for Trump, even if I stay home. (x 30,000,000)

"Trump is guaranteed to win". No doubt.

You have to remember we Republicans take out our anger differently than those on the left.

When the left gets pissed off, they have protests, riots in the street, destroying private and public property. We on the right get so pissed off that we make sure to make it to the polls hell over high water.

Not to worry. The last thing we Republicans will do is become complacent. If you don't believe me, just check out the standing room only events where Trump appears, compared to Biden who can't pack a high school cafeteria.

"We on the right get so pissed off that we make sure to make it to the polls hell over high water."

Oh? When was the last presidential election where more Republicans voted than Democrats?

 

[Slade3200]

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Tell us the difference. And try not to sound stupid.

There is a neat feature on phones and web browsers where you can highlight a word and then find the definition. Try it

Nothin? No one understands socialism but you, and you're not telling. Way to go!

so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Progressivism is the support for or advocacyof social reform.[1] As a philosophy, it is based on the idea of progress, which asserts that advancements in science, technology, economic development and social organizationare vital to the improvement of the human condition.

 

[Jitss617]

According to socialists no individual deserves any money that they earned, deadbeats deserve other peoples money

Why are you talking about socialists?

Progressivism socialism same difference... A cancer on society

You obviously don’t understand the difference. Study up before you say things like that, you won’t sound as stupid

Do you think what Biden said was some what questionable?

I think Biden acted in coordination with our government and that of our Allies. So the motives you assign to him you have to assign to everybody.

Now if Biden went rogue and threatened to pull the loan to fire a guy without the sanction of our government then hell yes that would be inappropriate. But there is ZERO EVIDENCE that happened. Your story is a fabrication.

So you aren’t interested in how many meetings hunter Biden showed up for? Interesting

 

[Cellblock2429]

/----/ President Trump is driving the chaos. He's playing the libtards like a fiddle. By releasing the transcript, he derailed the lib narrative forcing Schiff to litteraly make up a conversation between Trump and the Ukraine President.
"We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked."

Your talking about the piece he called parody? Did you think he was trying to pass that off as an actual quote. That one when right over your head I guess

It only became a parody after a Republican pointed out he was lying.

He might have gotten away with it if not for the transcript being made public. But since it is public, only the Democrats will believe what he said. After all, Democrats don't think for themselves, they are only told what to think which is why he pulled it off.

Holy shit Ray.. you too?! You really think age was trying to pass that off as Trumps actual words?! Go watch the video again, this is going right over your head

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

Christ Ray, you’re dumber than I thought. Here’s a tip when somebody says

“Shorn of its rambling character and in not so many words, this is the essence of what the president communicates”

It usually means what they say next is not an exact quote it is an interpretation of it.

You really need to start thinking for yourself

Opinion: Adam Schiff's riff on Trump's Ukraine call was more truth than parody, but still unwise

/——/ Its not an exact quote? It 100% made up bullshyt of what Pencil Neck wished Trump said. We have the transcript, of it is so damnig, why not quote from that? Yeah Schiff was trying to convince us that is what the president said. And you know it. Not an exact quote... Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha

 

[Third Party]

That's the issue-legality

Agree. And that is why there needs to be an investigation.

except now the mantra is no crime is needed, just think he's below the standards for the office.

it really does come across as "any port in a storm" and not an honest effort to address "wrongdoing".

I don't agree. An impeachment inquiry isn't necessarily going to benefit the Dems - Pelosi was doing a good job keeping the reins on that and I agreed with it - whether it was Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump the calls for impeachment were used more for partisan political purposes than serious crimes (Congress can always choose to censure). I think this one was a bridge to far and NOT starting an inquiry even though it might hurt the Dems would have been a derelection of duty.

Trump was refusing to pass on the whistle blower report which should not have gone to him in the first place and he had no legal right to hold and the contents are seriously concerning imo. The inquiry will allow them to get documents and subpeona witnesses expeditiously and this will hopefully become transparent and settled one way or the other quickly.

and schiff knew of this report a month before it was released. the entire act of WHAT A SURPRISE reeks to me.

if i were under attack 24x7 it would make me do strange things also, i'm sure. but the instant jump to IMPEACH as soon as they went public with it to me came across as pre-meditated and just for show as they knew what they were going to do for a month and had time to plan.

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

I have never seen a president excused so much and so regularly.

I DO think impeachment has become a partisan tool in recent years, starting with Clinton, continuing with clamors to impeach Bush, and then Obama. If the Dems had pursued impeachment based on the Mueller report, I would have disagreed and called it a partisan stunt.

I think current case though is potentially far more serious and warrants at least an inquiry and an examination. I think Pelosi realized this as well and that she had no choice but to go down that path. It is potentially that serious.

I say potentially because we don’t know the details, but from what we do know, sweeping it under the rug with a “everyone is attacking Trump unfairly” mentality is a dereliction of duty.

Most people I knew thought Clinton should not be impeached over a blow job. It was his lying on prime time tellevision that got him-plus whitewater stuff that he and Hillary were punished for out of the public'sview. I never heard any call for Bush or Obama to be impeached. Trump did his duty on the Ukraine call and the dems see their chance to avenge Clinton. Even Bill Maher says they have to get even for Merrick Garland-neither issue had anything to do with Trump. I would like to see both the Inquiry AND whistleblower testimony in a public setting, otherwise Schiff can make up anything he wants to again.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

With a clear conscious, you believe Hillary never did anything wrong?

That's not what i said or implied.