Serious questions for Trump supporters regarding this impeachment thing

[Coyote]

Let me say this Coyote...

Personally, I think there's tow sides in America now...Them....and US....yes you and me (and everyone like us.
As long as useful to those actually pulling the strings they might throw you a bone to make you feel like you are on the "Winning" side.

But after you've been used, you (and everyone like you) will be tossed aside and into the exact same bucket with rightwingers.

I see bad people dividing the nation and manipulating things so that the easily manipulated carry the torch for them in hating and dividing Americans.

I see it both ways.

Too bad you and those like you are completely convinced one side is all wrong and "your" side is totally right.

I have a feeling Trump, Nancy Pelosi and all of them are part of "those people". All throwing bones at us and dividing us.

But like a good tool, you carry the load for them to the end.

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.

But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

 

[IM2]

Trump's supporters often complain that those who are critical of Trump's performance are trying to do an end run around the 2016 election. That Trump's detractors are attempting a coup, the removal of a duly elected President. Ignoring the absurdity of that assertion for the moment, have they ever considered that Trump may be responsible for the multitude of questions regarding his competence?

Is Trump doing exactly what Putin wants him to do? That is a very good question considering the fact that the White House has been shackled during the 33 months Trump has sat in the Oval Office. Despite his party having control of both the House and Senate for the first two years of his Presidency, Trump has accomplished little or nothing. He has moved from controversy and scandal to new controversies and scandals throughout his entire administration.

He is the least popular President in modern American history, his staff has an historical turnover rate and is now filled with sycophants, and there are even questions about his mental stability.

Trump's close ties with Netanyahu while unilaterally proclaiming Jerusalem the capital of Israel has removed the U.S. from Middle East talks because the Arab republics do not trust him. Neither do Great Britain or France because Trump is unpredictable and unreliable. The U.S. has been replaced by Russia.

Trump removed the U.S. from the Paris Accord to which there are 197 signatories.

Because it was signed during the Obama administration, Trump removed the U.S. from the JCPOA which permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. He has been urging the Iranian leaders to agree to talks for a new agreement that permanently bars Iran from making a nuke. In the meantime, Iran has followed Trump's example and is in violation of the JCPOA. Our allies are trying desperately to save the agreement. Trump is threatening our allies' for their intentions.

Trump has removed the U.S. from lucrative trade agreements, TPP, NAFTA, and has not signed one major trade agreement.

Much to Putin's delight, Trump has weakened NATO with his constant jabs at our NATO partners. The recent G-7 conference went nearly as bad as last year's G-7 conference and there was no common statement of cooperation.

Trump has threatened the vibrant American economy. Because of his trade war with China, even he is concerned about a possible recession as consumer confidence is dropping along with the manufacturing index. Trump's harsh tariffs cause inflation, and inflation causes recession. To illustrate all of this, the stock market has been treading water since January 2018. On Jan. 29, 2018, the Dow stood at 26,439. Right now the Dow is at 26,917.A gain of only 478 points in 20 months. It was below Jan. 2018 figure for most of August due to Trump's tweets.

Questions about Trump's mental acuity have surfaced recently. Using a five day old NWS in predicting a hurricane's path Trump declared that Alabama "will most likely be hit (much) harder than anticipated." Everyone not named Trump knew the hurricane was going to turn north, missing Alabama by hundreds of miles. For a solid week Trump insisted that his faulty weather forecast was accurate.

When that died out Trump said he was totally responsible for inviting the terrorist sponsors of Al Qaeda to a meeting at Camp David five days before the 9/11 anniversary.

One day after Robert Mueller appeared before Congress to provide testimony regarding Russian intervention in our 2016 election on his behalf, Trump called the president of Ukraine to ask him to intervene in our 2020 election on his behalf!

Is Trump doing exactly what Putin wants him to do? Should he be removed from office? The reader can decide.

This is an excellent summation of the Trump presidency.

President Obama had people rioting. His goal was not to bring the issues into view. they never left. It was to begin to nationalize the police departments as to fit in with the North American Union. We are already in the middle of that transformation.

Bullshit.

 

[IM2]

Let me say this Coyote...

Personally, I think there's two sides in America now...Them....and US....yes you and I (and everyone like us). The NOT 1% ers
As long as you're useful to those actually pulling the strings they might throw you a bone to make you feel like you are on the "Winning" side.

But after you've been used, you (and everyone like you) will be tossed aside and into the exact same bucket with rightwingers.

I see bad people dividing the nation and manipulating things so that the easily manipulated carry the torch for them in hating and dividing Americans.
I see it both ways.

Too bad you and those like you are completely convinced one side is all wrong and "your" side is totally right.

I have a feeling Trump, Nancy Pelosi and all of them are part of "those people". All throwing bones at us and dividing us.
But like a good tool, you carry the load for them to the end.

This country has never had a time when it wasn't like this. Let's just get real.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

GOP's fear and loathing of Hillary Clinton cost you $100 million | Newstalk Florida - N
The House Republicans spent $8,000 a day investigating Benghazi. The State Department has spent $14 million on answering requests from Republicans that are related to the Benghazi investigations. The final House Select Committee on Benghazi spent $6.5 million with no with no evidence of wrongdoing having been found.

According to a total from the GEO from the second quarter of this year, the amount of public money spent in an attempt get former Secretary Clinton was around a staggering $22 million on the Benghazi.

That is over $100 million dollars’ public money spent by Republican’s to get Hillary Clinton without anything to show for it. So, now we are out on the campaign trail with only around 100 days left to go till election day.

ope. Not me.

So through all that, you completely really believe Hillary and Obama were innocent? Remember, 4 US citizens died. People DIED.
Plenty evidence came out showing that Hillary and Obama were concealing evidence so that it would not affect the elections.

NONE of that made sense to you? So what do you think really happened to those 4 people who really died?

Do you also believe it's funny the number of VERIFIABLE people with close connections to Hillary and Bill have died under mysterious circumstances?
It's like over 150 people. You really believe there's "nothing" there?

Have you looked into everything independently and come to your own conclusions without any assistance from Yahoo, CNN or MSNBC?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So through all that, you completely really believe Hillary and Obama were innocent?

Of criminal conduct? Yes, of course.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.
But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

If Trump actually did something wrong it should be known.
But applying "Justice" selectively to only those you agree with will not work ultimately.

It's unsettling that The Clintons can literally get away with murder (as best as I can tell) and Obama could use the IRS against Conservatives, yet NO ONE went to jail or was impeached.

Yet Trump has been dragged to hell and back 4 times now and many of his advisers were coerced into confessing things that were likely done on BOTH sides.

 

[Coyote]

GOP's fear and loathing of Hillary Clinton cost you $100 million | Newstalk Florida - N
The House Republicans spent $8,000 a day investigating Benghazi. The State Department has spent $14 million on answering requests from Republicans that are related to the Benghazi investigations. The final House Select Committee on Benghazi spent $6.5 million with no with no evidence of wrongdoing having been found.

According to a total from the GEO from the second quarter of this year, the amount of public money spent in an attempt get former Secretary Clinton was around a staggering $22 million on the Benghazi.

That is over $100 million dollars’ public money spent by Republican’s to get Hillary Clinton without anything to show for it. So, now we are out on the campaign trail with only around 100 days left to go till election day.

ope. Not me.

So through all that, you completely really believe Hillary and Obama were innocent? Remember, 4 US citizens died. People DIED.
Plenty evidence came out showing that Hillary and Obama were concealing evidence so that it would not affect the elections.

NONE of that made sense to you? So what do you think really happened to those 4 people who really died?

Do you also believe it's funny the number of VERIFIABLE people with close connections to Hillary and Bill have died under mysterious circumstances?
It's like over 150 people. You really believe there's "nothing" there?

Have you looked into everything independently and come to your own conclusions without any assistance from Yahoo, CNN or MSNBC?

If all the investigations of tbe Republican controlled Congress couldn’t come up with anything, I doubt there was anything.

Embassy attacks have happened before. There were 13 attacks on US embassies and something like 60 deaths under Bush. Yet not one investigation. Interesting no?

Clinton body count? Pure conspiracy theory crap.

You don’t consider both sides if you blindly buy into all that.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Of criminal conduct? Yes, of course.

With a clear conscious, you believe Hillary never did anything wrong?
Even though 4 Americans died in Libya? What caused their deaths then?
Bill Clinton never lied to Congress (a crime) about sex in the Oval office?

And even though a large number of people have died under mysterious circumstances with close ties to the Clintons?

You still feel these are good, trustworthy people and politicians?

 

[Coyote]

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.
But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

If Trump actually did something wrong it should be known.
But applying "Justice" selectively to only those you agree with will not work ultimately.

It's unsettling that The Clintons can literally get away with murder (as best as I can tell) and Obama could use the IRS against Conservatives, yet NO ONE went to jail or was impeached.

Yet Trump has been dragged to hell and back 4 times now and many of his advisers were coerced into confessing things that were likely done on BOTH sides.

It is unsettling that you don’t give the Clintons the same unlimited benefit of the doubt you give Trump.

I trust our legal system over the courtof public opinion.

 

[Coyote]

Of criminal conduct? Yes, of course.

With a clear conscious, you believe Hillary never did anything wrong?
Even though 4 Americans died in Libya?
Bill Clinton never lied to Congress (a crime) about sex in the Oval office?

And even though a large number of people have died under mysterious circumstances with close ties to the Clintons?

Hillary is no angel, she is like any other politician. Same with Billy boy.

But that spdoesnt make them murderers.

And Trump lies almost daily...Mueller very carefully refused to clear him of obstruction of justice.

No angels and Trump is certainly no victim.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

If all the investigations of tbe Republican controlled Congress couldn’t come up with anything, I doubt there was anything.
Embassy attacks have happened before. There were 13 attacks on US embassies and something like 69 deaths under Bush. Yet not one investigation. Interesting no?
Clinton body count? Pure conspiracy theory crap.
You don’t consider both sides if you blindly buy into all that.

Are you saying I couldn't provide proof that at least 150 people died who had close ties to Hillary and Bill Clinton?

I don't blindly buy into it. I've read detailed accounts from people who worked for the Clintons and information from MANY sources.
If I were to provide links would you re-examine the evidence without bias?

And I don't think Trump is an angel, as you said politics is a dirty business.
That said, I think the VAST majority of information on him has been made up or is blatantly false.
I have family members who knew this man PERSONALLY in NewYork decades before he ran for office and he was NOT like the Left and the media portray him.
Big ego? Yes. Bad person? I'm not yet convinced.

Unfortunately, few people that knew the Clintons from decades back seem to be around today to speak of them and their past.

 

[iceberg]

That's the issue-legality

Agree. And that is why there needs to be an investigation.

except now the mantra is no crime is needed, just think he's below the standards for the office.

it really does come across as "any port in a storm" and not an honest effort to address "wrongdoing".

I don't agree. An impeachment inquiry isn't necessarily going to benefit the Dems - Pelosi was doing a good job keeping the reins on that and I agreed with it - whether it was Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump the calls for impeachment were used more for partisan political purposes than serious crimes (Congress can always choose to censure). I think this one was a bridge to far and NOT starting an inquiry even though it might hurt the Dems would have been a derelection of duty.

Trump was refusing to pass on the whistle blower report which should not have gone to him in the first place and he had no legal right to hold and the contents are seriously concerning imo. The inquiry will allow them to get documents and subpeona witnesses expeditiously and this will hopefully become transparent and settled one way or the other quickly.

and schiff knew of this report a month before it was released. the entire act of WHAT A SURPRISE reeks to me.

if i were under attack 24x7 it would make me do strange things also, i'm sure. but the instant jump to IMPEACH as soon as they went public with it to me came across as pre-meditated and just for show as they knew what they were going to do for a month and had time to plan.

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

I have never seen a president excused so much and so regularly.

I DO think impeachment has become a partisan tool in recent years, starting with Clinton, continuing with clamors to impeach Bush, and then Obama. If the Dems had pursued impeachment based on the Mueller report, I would have disagreed and called it a partisan stunt.

I think current case though is potentially far more serious and warrants at least an inquiry and an examination. I think Pelosi realized this as well and that she had no choice but to go down that path. It is potentially that serious.

I say potentially because we don’t know the details, but from what we do know, sweeping it under the rug with a “everyone is attacking Trump unfairly” mentality is a dereliction of duty.

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.

And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

 

[Coyote]

If all the investigations of tbe Republican controlled Congress couldn’t come up with anything, I doubt there was anything.
Embassy attacks have happened before. There were 13 attacks on US embassies and something like 69 deaths under Bush. Yet not one investigation. Interesting no?
Clinton body count? Pure conspiracy theory crap.
You don’t consider both sides if you blindly buy into all that.

Are you saying I couldn't provide proof that at least 150 people died who had close ties to Hillary and Bill Clinton?

I don't blindly buy into it. I've read detailed accounts from people who worked for the Clintons and information from MANY sources.
If I were to provide links would you re-examine the evidence without bias?

I am saying you can’t provide proof their deaths had anything to do with the Clintons. Not that it matters, you will believe it regardless. That is how Conspiracy Theories work. When you are rich, famous or a public figure, you know thousands of people, most as passing acquaintances. Out of those thousands, a number will die..auto accidents, suicide, murder, cancer. That is reality.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Just keep in mind.....no matter the outcome of this or ANY investigation......there will be another......and another......and another......and another......
And it will NEVER end until they have complete control.

They are not in the mood to compromise.......EVER

I disagree with you here. I think it can end when Americans are fed up with this constant BS, and change leadership of the house, and strengthen the Senate for Republicans.

Then all they can do is sit in the corner and suck their thumbs with their ***** hats on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

Minor offenses? You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury. I guarantee you won't get the same treatment as Bill Clinton did under the law.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I disagree with you here. I think it can end when Americans are fed up with this constant BS, and change leadership of the house, and strengthen the Senate for Republicans.
Then all they can do is sit in the corner and suck their thumbs with their ***** hats on.

I hope you are correct Ray.
But have you noticed the number of Republican politicians retiring? Why? what do they know?

What will Americans do "when they're fed up" ? Other than complain more on forums?
Vote more? You do know that some Democrat states have even removed Trump from their ballots?
You do know that they've formed an alliance to alter the electoral college?
You do know they've imported millions of illegal immigrants and are rushing to issue then drivers licenses right? why? (2020 elections)

Are you fantasizing about a victory for which there is no reality based path?

 

[Coyote]

I disagree with you here. I think it can end when Americans are fed up with this constant BS, and change leadership of the house, and strengthen the Senate for Republicans.
Then all they can do is sit in the corner and suck their thumbs with their ***** hats on.

I hope you are correct Ray.
But have you noticed the number of Republican politicians retiring? Why? what do they know?

What will Americans do "when they're fed up" ? Other than complain more on forums?
Vote more? You do know that some Democrat states have even removed Trump from their ballots?
You do know that they've formed an alliance to alter the electoral college?

Are you fantasizing about a victory for which there is no path?

No one has removed Trump from the ballet.

 

[Coyote]

Agree. And that is why there needs to be an investigation.

except now the mantra is no crime is needed, just think he's below the standards for the office.

it really does come across as "any port in a storm" and not an honest effort to address "wrongdoing".

I don't agree. An impeachment inquiry isn't necessarily going to benefit the Dems - Pelosi was doing a good job keeping the reins on that and I agreed with it - whether it was Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump the calls for impeachment were used more for partisan political purposes than serious crimes (Congress can always choose to censure). I think this one was a bridge to far and NOT starting an inquiry even though it might hurt the Dems would have been a derelection of duty.

Trump was refusing to pass on the whistle blower report which should not have gone to him in the first place and he had no legal right to hold and the contents are seriously concerning imo. The inquiry will allow them to get documents and subpeona witnesses expeditiously and this will hopefully become transparent and settled one way or the other quickly.

and schiff knew of this report a month before it was released. the entire act of WHAT A SURPRISE reeks to me.

if i were under attack 24x7 it would make me do strange things also, i'm sure. but the instant jump to IMPEACH as soon as they went public with it to me came across as pre-meditated and just for show as they knew what they were going to do for a month and had time to plan.

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

I have never seen a president excused so much and so regularly.

I DO think impeachment has become a partisan tool in recent years, starting with Clinton, continuing with clamors to impeach Bush, and then Obama. If the Dems had pursued impeachment based on the Mueller report, I would have disagreed and called it a partisan stunt.

I think current case though is potentially far more serious and warrants at least an inquiry and an examination. I think Pelosi realized this as well and that she had no choice but to go down that path. It is potentially that serious.

I say potentially because we don’t know the details, but from what we do know, sweeping it under the rug with a “everyone is attacking Trump unfairly” mentality is a dereliction of duty.

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.

And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

Imo...Obama has. And that is my honest observation.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No one has removed Trump from the ballet.

Then explain this..
...
Trump’s tax returns required under new California election law (LosAngelesTimes)
Trump’s tax returns required under new California election law

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?
You do claim to be "better informed" than I am.

No. Just better informed.

Also...it's "Ballot"...not Ballet.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.
And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

Imo...Obama has. And that is my honest observation.

And you would be a pure fool for saying this.

Obama had the entire media kissing his ass and glorifying him for 8 years even when he broke the law.

Trump has had the media Demonizing him every day since the election. Trump has been dragged through an ENDLESS series of investigations since day one. Obama did not. At all.

Pardon me, but with all due respect, one would have to be a blind and horribly biased imbecile to say what you just said.

If you really believe what you just said, there is little reason to discuss with you any further as you don't meet the level of intelligence needed to carry a reasonable, balanced conversation.