Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[HikerGuy83]

The problem with that is that it would also apply to the 2nd Amendment as well. In other words, the 2nd Amendment was originally written to prevent the federal government from infringing on the right to bear arms. Incorporation restricts the states from doing so. So double edged sword so to speak.

Totally agreed.

And I've often pointed this out to my left-wing associates.

At the same time, 44 states have language akin to the 2nd in their state constitutions. Which only further reinforces the idea that the Constitution was for the federal government only.

So, in theory, states could have gun restrictions, but not many.

 

[ding]

So, in theory, states could have gun restrictions, but not many.

Not according to SCOTUS per the misguided principle of incorporation.

 

[ding]

I think BreezeWood may be a scholar,

God help us all.

 

[ding]

Perfectly?


I sense a touch of pride in you too.

Yes, existing perfectly. Which does not mean doing perfect things. Many a saint have contemplated this.

Yes, we all have pride. Some more than others.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Not according to SCOTUS per the misguided principle of incorporation.

Yes, I thought I said I agreed with that.

I pointed out to some of left wing friends that if they every dropped selective incorporation, then they could possibly get gun control passed at the state level. Understanding that many states (44 is what I remember) have similar language in their state constitutions.

 

[ding]

Yes, I thought I said I agreed with that.

I pointed out to some of left wing friends that if they every dropped selective incorporation, then they could possibly get gun control passed at the state level. Understanding that many states (44 is what I remember) have similar language in their state constitutions.

My bad.

 

[BreezeWood]

Yes, I thought I said I agreed with that.

I pointed out to some of left wing friends that if they every dropped selective incorporation, then they could possibly get gun control passed at the state level. Understanding that many states (44 is what I remember) have similar language in their state constitutions.

you really haven't the faintest idea, national gun control - is not their removal ...

american firearm - leaver or bolt action only, six round capacity non detachable magazine.

 

[HikerGuy83]

you really haven't the faintest idea, national gun control - is not their removal ...

american firearm - leaver or bolt action only, six round capacity non detachable magazine.

You might want to catch up on the conversation before you dive in and make a fool of yourself.....again.

 

[surada]

I never knew either man so I don't know if that ever happened. Mohammed claimed to have seen God/Allah but it is difficult to believe the Qu'ran has anything at all in common with the God revealed in the Biblical scriptures and known to billions of Christians. Joseph Smith claimed to have seen God as a youth, and to have received the golden plates, basis for the Book of Mormon, from the Angel Moroni. The plates were returned to Moroni after Smith translated them. I don't see much of the God of the Bible in the Book of Mormon either.

It is not given to me to judge the faith of anyone but only their actions. Islam has contributed quite a bit to the world, especially long ago, but its extremists are not only not Christian but are clear in their intent to stamp out JudeoChristianity entirely. That cannot come from the God of the Bible. The Church of Latter Day Saints has also been beneficial to many of its people, but also has its dark side that merits caution.

Muhammad never claimed to have seen God. His vision was of Gabriel.

 

[BreezeWood]

You might want to catch up on the conversation before you dive in and make a fool of yourself.....again.

- there is no state conversation for gun control ... than in your dreams.

 

[Foxfyre]

Muhammad never claimed to have seen God. His vision was of Gabriel.

According to the Qu'ran Muhammed saw God. I believe the history says he was 14 or 15 at the time.

 

[surada]

So you are saying it's all made up, right?

Do you really believe that makes sense? Do you have any evidence of that? Do you have a good reason for believing that?

It was never intended as history. It's didactic literature.

 

[ding]

It was never intended as history. It's didactic literature.

I disagree. It was 100% historical. The behaviors and actions of the early Christians and Apostles proves it.

 

[ding]

you really haven't the faintest idea, national gun control - is not their removal ...

american firearm - leaver or bolt action only, six round capacity non detachable magazine.

It's easier to control the masses that way, right?

Why are you denying American's natural instincts to defend themselves?

 

[alang1216]

It seems that since you reject the words from Jesus based upon your unsupported conspiracy theory that you must believe if Jesus really did say and do those things, that you would believe he was who he said he was.

Because otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing that they should be dismissed. You would be arguing something else, right?

If Jesus were born of a virgin and performed miracles, I'd have no choice but to believe in him. But, that is not what life and history has shown me.

1. I have no direct evidence of ANYTHING supernatural
2. We have no direct evidence that Jesus existed or wrote anything (while he left no writings, the indirect evidence makes it pretty clear he lived)
3. Christianity changed dramatically from Paul, our earliest writer, to John, our latest.
4. Christianity began as a sect within Judaism but never made great inroads among Jews, the very people Jesus performed miracles for.
5. The accuracy of the gospels is questionable as they sometimes contradict each other, and they have been changed since they were originally written down.

need I go on?

 

[alang1216]

I disagree. It was 100% historical. The behaviors and actions of the early Christians and Apostles proves it.

If that is true, please explain why the letters of Paul sometimes tell a different story of what Paul did than Acts does.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's easier to control the masses that way, right?

Why are you denying American's natural instincts to defend themselves?

american firearm - leaver or bolt action only, six round capacity non detachable magazine.

that is the right to bare arms for citizenry, not for fanatic reactionaries and religious zealots ...

try to catch up, whether for sport or self defense the american firearm is a mainstay of american society.

 

[Meriweather]

If Jesus were born of a virgin and performed miracles, I'd have no choice but to believe in him. But, that is not what life and history has shown me.

1. I have no direct evidence of ANYTHING supernatural
2. We have no direct evidence that Jesus existed or wrote anything (while he left no writings, the indirect evidence makes it pretty clear he lived)
3. Christianity changed dramatically from Paul, our earliest writer, to John, our latest.
4. Christianity began as a sect within Judaism but never made great inroads among Jews, the very people Jesus performed miracles for.
5. The accuracy of the gospels is questionable as they sometimes contradict each other, and they have been changed since they were originally written down.

need I go on?

Sure. Why the absorption on tracking down reasons not to believe in Jesus? Why not try living in his teachings: The Beatitudes, Parables, Prayer, the Commandments, Live with the confidence of knowing turning away from sins/shortcomings results in the forgiveness of those sins/shortcomings--i.e., living the ways he taught us to live. Have you come to love everyone you come in contact with as he loves us? Think about it. Does it make any sense at all to say, "Hmmm, I won't try that way of living because I have no physical proof of a virgin giving birth or any supernatural events in Jesus' life."

So, yes, go on about why it is better to gather reasons why not to believe than to believe and put those beliefs into daily practice.

 

[alang1216]

Sure. Why the absorption on tracking down reasons not to believe in Jesus? Why not try living in his teachings: The Beatitudes, Parables, Prayer, the Commandments, Live with the confidence of knowing turning away from sins/shortcomings results in the forgiveness of those sins/shortcomings--i.e., living the ways he taught us to live. Have you come to love everyone you come in contact with as he loves us? Think about it. Does it make any sense at all to say, "Hmmm, I won't try that way of living because I have no physical proof of a virgin giving birth or any supernatural events in Jesus' life."

So, yes, go on about why it is better to gather reasons why not to believe than to believe and put those beliefs into daily practice.

I don't think my not believing in God or Jesus means I can't lead a moral life. I don't commit murder, I don't need God to tell me that would be wrong.

 

[ding]

If Jesus were born of a virgin and performed miracles, I'd have no choice but to believe in him. But, that is not what life and history has shown me.

1. I have no direct evidence of ANYTHING supernatural
2. We have no direct evidence that Jesus existed or wrote anything (while he left no writings, the indirect evidence makes it pretty clear he lived)
3. Christianity changed dramatically from Paul, our earliest writer, to John, our latest.
4. Christianity began as a sect within Judaism but never made great inroads among Jews, the very people Jesus performed miracles for.
5. The accuracy of the gospels is questionable as they sometimes contradict each other, and they have been changed since they were originally written down.

need I go on?

I’m not trying to convince you. So do you need to go on?