Zone1 Separation of Church and State?

[ding]

You ask a very complex question and then dismiss me when I try to answer. Do the 40 miracles have multiple attestation or not?

See post #499.

It's your failure to acknowledge the logical conclusion of your belief that convicts you. You know you can't prove a conspiracy because the facts don't support it.

 

[alang1216]

Nope. Why don't you admit you're a conspiracy theorist?

When you refuse to answer my questions? I think not.

 

[alang1216]

See post #499.

It's your failure to acknowledge the logical conclusion of your belief that convicts you. You know you can't prove a conspiracy because the facts don't support it.

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

 

[ding]

When you refuse to answer my questions? I think not.

Can you prove a conspiracy? No. How am I wrong?

 

[ding]

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

That would be truth, logic and love. You can't prove a conspiracy.

 

[alang1216]

Can you prove a conspiracy? No. How am I wrong?

You can't prove that wasn't a conspiracy. Correct?

 

[ding]

You can't prove that wasn't a conspiracy. Correct?

That's where the 24,000 written manuscripts, the behaviors of the early Christians and the behaviors of the apostles come in.

Do you have any documents or testimony from that time that disputed the historicity of the events? Because that's the other piece of evidence I have.

 

[Clyde 154]

I know a great many Christians. Even so, that is a very small percentage. No Christian I know has any anger or resentment towards Darwin. As I've mentioned to you before, only about thirty percent of Christians take all Biblical accounts literally. In the 1970s there was a big push by one denominations (Evangelicals) for everyone to read the Bible literally, but that has since ebbed. As I have also explained, Catholics are all welcome to make their own decision about whether or not to read Biblical accounts literally. Apparently it is a big thing in your denomination or locale, but it never has been in either my denomination or locales.

Since when does a "consensus" establish literal truth? You either subjectively attempt to mold the word around your chosen lifestyle or you objectively take the word of God as truth from God. "All scripture is breathed out BY GOD........." --2 Tim. 3:16-17, The word of God contains everything necessary to make the man of God Perfect in knowing what God demands as Christian Doctrine.

Simply because the majority of people do not wish to take the word of God as a literal truth does not prevent the Word from being true. As its written, "For many are called but few are chosen....." -- Matthew 22:14 God breathed out the following, "Brothers (fellow Christians), I (Apostle of Christ) have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, THAT YOU MAY LEARN NOT TO GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN............so you will not be PUFFED UP (proud and condescending)..." -- 1 Cor. 4:6


There was a belief........consensus among the majority of earths people that suggested the world was flat, and the earth was the center of the universe........turns out that supposed truth was wrong. Another instance........the age of the earth suggested by consensus..........when I was a child it was taught as truth that the earth was 1.5 billion years old..........today the earth has supposedly doubled in age within a 5 decade period....... Fact: Either both suggested ages are false or one the lessons taught to our children is a lie and the other one true. Reality: There is no scientific method to establish the correct age for anything past that which can be observed. There is no source to calibrate theories such as radio carbon dating ....etc., void of actual observation and reproduction via experiment. Who was around at the beginning other than the source of creation?

 

[alang1216]

That's where the 24,000 written manuscripts, the behaviors of the early Christians and the behaviors of the apostles come in.

You may feel this is sufficient evidence but it is not proof.

Do you have any documents or testimony from that time that disputed the historicity of the events? Because that's the other piece of evidence I have.

There was never a census in the Roman world that caused everyone to go to their ancestral home. How would that even work and what would it accomplish? I don't even know where my 'ancestral' home would be. Brooklyn? Do you know why that story exists?

 

[ding]

You may feel this is sufficient evidence but it is not proof.


There was never a census in the Roman world that caused everyone to go to their ancestral home. How would that even work and what would it accomplish? I don't even know where my 'ancestral' home would be. Brooklyn? Do you know why that story exists?

It's evidence. You guys never could figure out the difference between the two. Don't you imagine that if Jesus didn't perform the number and type of miracles attributed to him that that would have been recorded by someone?

You are still trying to argue the miracles never happened without recognizing that means you are arguing it was a massive conspiracy. I say it's because you know you lose that argument because you have no EVIDENCE for that argument.

 

[alang1216]

It's evidence. You guys never could figure out the difference between the two. Don't you imagine that if Jesus didn't perform the number and type of miracles attributed to him that that would have been recorded by someone?

You are still trying to argue the miracles never happened without recognizing that means you are arguing it was a massive conspiracy. I say it's because you know you lose that argument because you have no EVIDENCE for that argument.

I give up. Sleep well.

 

[ding]

I give up. Sleep well.

I usually do.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Separation of Church and State? 240807 {post•1}. Meriweather Aug’24 Ssocas: Popes, bishops, priests, ministers are set apart from government. mrwthr 240807 Ssocas00001


ii. Separation of Church and State? 240815 {post•513}.

NotfooledbyW 240815 Vsocas: Is that because the US human government that is designed to keep civil order in a material world is not in any way accountable to the Biblical God of Abraham / Father of Jesus Christ / Cosmic Sustainer of the Holy Ghost for the civil order it keeps?

nfbw 240815 Bsocas00513

 

[BreezeWood]

Don't you imagine that if Jesus didn't perform the number and type of miracles attributed to him that that would have been recorded by someone?

- or that their likeness was never recorded - would prove those to be false renderings, supernatural miracles that never happened.

or the deliberate exclusion of what jesus did teach, liberation theology, self determination and the refutation of judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry.

 

[ding]

- or that their likeness was never recorded - would prove those to be false renderings, supernatural miracles that never happened.

And yet the early Christians and apostles behaved as if it did.

 

[ding]

or the deliberate exclusion of what jesus did teach, liberation theology, self determination and the refutation of judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry.

Says who? Your satanic cult?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

i. Separation of Church and State? 240807 {post•1}. Meriweather Aug’24 Ssocas: People/citizens of faith are not only citizens of a nation, but are also citizens of the Kingdom of God. It is not only our right, but our duty to permeate the social, political, and economic realities within our governments. mrwthr 240807 Ssocas00001

ii. Separation of Church and State? 240815 {post•517}

NotfooledbyW Aug’24 Vsocas: What exactly does “permeate” mean? Why are you spreading Kingdom of your choice of God’s legends stories myth’s superstitions doctrines rituals rules onto the uninterested secular government to which I pay taxes.

nfbw 240815 Ssocas00517

 

[BreezeWood]

And yet the early Christians and apostles behaved as if it did.

so claims the proven liar, bing.

there were no early christians - that only occurred when the crucifiers wrote their christian bible so to believe them than what jesus and those who did give their lives died for ... the repudiation of judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry.

 

[Foxfyre]

You ask a very complex question and then dismiss me when I try to answer. Do the 40 miracles have multiple attestation or not?

Since certainly almost all manuscripts from the First Century have been lost, have disintegrated and/or have been intentionally destroyed, we do not know if the 40 or whatever number of miracles are reported have multiple attestation. How many miracles were actually natural phenomenon? How many miracles were not reported in the manuscripts that compile the New Testament? How many witnesses were there?

We don't know nor it it important well over 2000 years later.

Faith is not based on 'seeing is believing' because the latter is often not the case either. Anti-Christians refuse to consider any component of Christianity other than the bad acts of some 'religious' over the centuries of history that we have. Christians capable of critical thinking look to the entire record and hopefully the Holy Spirit for what is and is not believable of the record.

Jesus admonished some of his followers that even though they have seen, they do not believe. It is too often a fallibility of humankind that it dismisses as much evidence as it needs to in order to arrive at a given wrong conclusion. That is true of some of the religious and the anti-religious alike.

 

[BreezeWood]

We don't know nor it it important well over 2000 years later.

Desert Southwest USA

well, not everyone wonders in the desert, aimlessly and do attempt to know the truth - recorded history can help.