Seattle to defund Police by 50 percent!!!

[martybegan]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

That's exactly what they are voting for.

1. Cut funding
2. ?????
3. Effective low impact policing?

We can see how it has worked elsewhere.

The 2018 crime rate in Cincinnati, OH is 518 (City-Data.com crime index), which is 1.9 times greater than the U.S. average. It was higher than in 96.3% U.S. cities.

Crime in Cincinnati, Ohio (OH): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

And Cincinnati didn't cut the funding for their PD by 50% either. Fewer cops = more crime. Unavoidable.

Cincinnati is not Seattle and Washington state is not Ohio, meaning the laws are different, the governing i different and the circumstances are different. Meaning what works in Cinci or anywhere else might not work in Seattle. The Seattle city council wants to cut PD funding for the rest of this year by 50%. There's no word about what their plans are to maintain law and order, frankly I suspect they don't have any beyond the wistful return to the "summer of love". Good luck with that. I know of no example in history where a big drop in your police force did not result in a significant boost in crime.

Fewer cops does not mean more crime. It means they are freed up to not go on "mental health" call as people actually trained in that can do that.

"Fewer cops does not mean more crime."

Show me one place where a city had fewer cops out there without more crime. You are lying sir.

About those mental health calls, how many of them are some kind of 'domestic disturbances' where somebody has a knife or a gun and is somewhat overly-excited? You wanna send a social worker out for that? I dunno if that is the answer, although I wouldn't doubt there are many other cases that do not require a uniformed cop with a gun. I kinda doubt a major city like Seattle can get by with half of it's police force though.

To me, the big thing with police misconduct is the lack of accountability. You just can't allow a bad cop to stay on your police force, and that occurs way too often in our major city PDs. Which are run by the democrats in almost all cases. Bad cops should be prosecuted or fired if the evidence warrants it, depending on the seriousness of the incident in question. And past history has to be considered. And none of this immunity stuff either, a badge doesn't give you the privilege to beatup or shoot somebody.

OTOH, when confronted by the police you need to STFU and comply with his directions. And you can expect to be shot if you make a move that could reasonably be construed as threatening. The cop has a right to go home to his wife and kids too.

The ironic thing is most of the issues that create the police mentality of being more important than everyone else comes from large cities under democratic control, with their excessive rules and regulations.

So cops can park in front of hydrants and bus stops overnight, but regular people can't.
They can park all over the place by their precincts, but regular people can't
They can keep firearms at home for their protection without spending money and time, but regular people can't.

Police and government employees were meant to be civil SERVANTS, not a new class of knights/nobility with more perks than the rest of us.

So why are you arguing to end that?

I am saying police need to be held more accountable and to a higher standard, but defunding them is pknopp, i.e. retarded

Fyi I am calling you a fucking retard if you are having trouble getting the point

 

[martybegan]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

King County Labor Council expels Seattle police union

Do you have a problem with this?

Yes, because they are not holding any other public sector union to the same standards.

That's not the reason. What other public sector unions are carving out exemptions and defending those who murder others?

Are you trying to be an idiot and not actually respond to my statements, or is this just you being retarded?

 

[harmonica]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

...you can't tell if it works because there's not much police brutality/etc in the first place
all facts/stats here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[harmonica]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

from YOUR link

Police had killed 15 young black men in the six years leading up to the 2001 shooting death of Timothy Thomas. The ACLU had filed a class action suit alleging that the police had violated the civil rights of 14 young black men by shooting them, profiling them and illegally stopping and searching them.

.....NO evidence of police brutality and NO evidence those shootings were unjustified!!!!!!!!!! = your link is worthless and proves nothing
AND --AND ---AND--this proves MY point in the link I posted:
....15 killed in 6 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...less than 3 per year!!!!!!!!!!!--how many unjustified???!!! 1??? 1 in 3 years???!!
it's all in my link explaining that there is no problem

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

DEFUND THE POLICE!!!!!!!!!
....my house gets broken into...

My gun kills them.

 

[harmonica]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

..THANK YOU--you unwittingly gave me more proof of my thread ''where's all this racism'''
..just like the Ferguson Report, and all this MSM crap about EVIL cops and whitey = it's really bullshit...your link proves it
WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO

 

[2aguy]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Yeah...sell that to the democrats....they will believe anything.

 

[2aguy]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

Great, what cities have defunded the police?

Don't you get it.....he said it, so it is true.....just like everything else the democrat party says...

They say it...therefore it is true. If you look beyond the statement, you are

-a racist
-a misogynist
-a homophobe
-a trans-phobe

you are essentially a Non-person.....and can be destroyed...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Yeah Camden, let me tell you about Camden. They disbanded their police force and joined up with other cities in their county to create a county police force and ended up with more cops on the streets of Camden then they had before. Now Camden is not a particularly large city, around 75,000 or so if I remember right. So what worked for them isn't going to work for Seattle, Minnesota, and other big cities cuz the surrounding towns don't have the money to pay for policing the big city next door.

One more time, fewer cops on the street ALWAYS results in more crime.

Camden ended up paying less. Remember, they got rid of the police union.

lol Camden got rid of its police force. The county now provides what police services are needed. Camden city is piss poor and was never able to afford quality policing, so it gave up trying and the county, which includes many wealthy areas took over.

The city government and the black communities in the city now have very little say in what happens on their streets and they love it. At first they hated it because the county installed a very heavy police presence, you couldn't go anywhere without seeing a cop, and the black community, which is virtually the entire population of Camden city, was up in arms about the country police, not only because there were cops everywhere, but also because none of them lived in the city and the city residents had no say in police matters. But because of the very heavy police presence, crime is way down in this once dangerous city, and the residents are loving it.

The lesson to be learned here is that when the police are unable to do a good job, you need to spend more, not less, to fix the problem.

Crime went down. You can moan all you want. This is going to happen.

Crime went down because more money is being spent on policing than previously, not less.

It's being spent differently.

Of course it's being spent differently. Before the county took over, the city of Camden could barely afford to hire enough police to respond to emergencies, but now the county's version of community policing means where ever you go there are police watching you. The county put more cops on the street to discourage crime. It didn't hire a lot of mental health workers or counsellors and there are no community oversight committees. It's really very simple, if you want less crime, put more police on the streets and let them do their job and trust that if they break the law, the courts will deal with them.

If you want more crime, police reform is the answer. Cincinnati is a perfect example. Reformers believe they have achieved a great success, but by any reasonable measure Cincinnati is a failure. It now has one of the highest crime rates of any city of its size and is considered a dangerous city even to visit.

Right, by all accounts Cincinnati's reform has worked but USMB experts know better.

I posted the link to their local news station that reported with the exception of rapes, all other violent crimes are up. It doesn't take an expert to figure that one out.

 

[justinacolmena]

NYC defunded and murder up 40 percent

Amazing. Overpaid city-employee labor-union cops did even more work and booked 40% more murders with less money.

 

[harmonica]

NYC defunded and murder up 40 percent

Amazing. Overpaid city-employee labor-union cops did even more work and booked 40% more murders with less money.

only they weren't murders
hahhahahahaha

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Democrats will replace the police with the civilian military Obama dreamed of. Just as well funded and equipped.

 

[2aguy]

Democrats will replace the police with the civilian military Obama dreamed of. Just as well funded and equipped.

But more racist and more violent, and deadly........ the democrat party way....

Drive out good men and women, replace with loyal thugs.......then live in your gated compound and let the Blacks, Hispanics suffer...

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Yeah Camden, let me tell you about Camden. They disbanded their police force and joined up with other cities in their county to create a county police force and ended up with more cops on the streets of Camden then they had before. Now Camden is not a particularly large city, around 75,000 or so if I remember right. So what worked for them isn't going to work for Seattle, Minnesota, and other big cities cuz the surrounding towns don't have the money to pay for policing the big city next door.

One more time, fewer cops on the street ALWAYS results in more crime.

Camden ended up paying less. Remember, they got rid of the police union.

... and the city police department was scrapped and replaced with a county-run department that received increased taxpayer funding and tens of millions in federal grants. Because the move involved busting the police union, a frequent opponent of meaningful reforms, the new department was able to hire cops at lower wages.

Camden dismantled police after GOP budget cuts, went on hiring spree

The most dangerous city in the US dissolved its police and crime plummeted. Some say the truth is more complicated.

www.salon.com

Sure they did, and they ended up with more cops than before. How? They got a lot of money form the state of New Jersey and federal funding from the Obama Admin. I highly Seattle can defund their PD by 50% without busting their Police Union. Camden 'received increased taxpayer funding and tens of millions in federal grants, Saolon's words, not mine. Wiill the tate of Washington pony-up a bunch of money for Seattle? Could be, but I highly doubt they'll get tens of millions in federal grants, cuz I don't think the federal gov't can or should subsidize local depts for every city that has had police issues and wants to disband or defund. Far as I'm concerned, that should be on the states and counties, and cities to provide public safety and security as they see fit and pay for it themselves.

Busting the police union is a large part of the idea. The head of the police union in Seattle had to have a lawsuit filed against him because he wouldn't quit wearing his "white power" patch. Do you really think that Seattle won't jump at the chance to defund him?

Getting rid of the head of the union is one thing, but getting rid of the whole union is another. Hey, I'm all for it, that's how Camden managed to disband their PD and still end up more cops on the street, cuz they were paying them less in total compensation after the union went away. Which came back BTW, I'm wondering what'll happen a few years down the road when that union starts bargaining for their next contract. Will Camden end up right back where they started 10 years from now? Blue state, democrats running it, yeah I'd bet money on it.

But Seattle and Minneapolis and the other major cities are another story. They can't do what Camden did, bounce the union and have the county take over the policing. I haven't heard anybody talking about what the legalities are in Washington or Minnesota for public unions, legislation would probably have to be passed and adjudicated in the courts before anything major can change.

And the other thing is the rank and file cops, how many in Seattle and every other big city that wants to defund or disband the PD re going to relocate to a smaller town or go into private security? Somehow I don't think the quality of your new PD or whatever it will be called, will be improved.

There is one important fact missing from all the replies that we can't do this or we can't do that.

We will institute reform or the country will burn.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

Proof that dipshits like this will never know what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING in these cities, but only what the controlled media he admires tells him.



He won't be listening the facts like this, and this is how it is done folks.

LOL, the media all have it wrong. Mayors have it wrong. Everyone has it wrong except for some goofy YouTube video. OK.

 

[harmonica]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Yeah Camden, let me tell you about Camden. They disbanded their police force and joined up with other cities in their county to create a county police force and ended up with more cops on the streets of Camden then they had before. Now Camden is not a particularly large city, around 75,000 or so if I remember right. So what worked for them isn't going to work for Seattle, Minnesota, and other big cities cuz the surrounding towns don't have the money to pay for policing the big city next door.

One more time, fewer cops on the street ALWAYS results in more crime.

Camden ended up paying less. Remember, they got rid of the police union.

... and the city police department was scrapped and replaced with a county-run department that received increased taxpayer funding and tens of millions in federal grants. Because the move involved busting the police union, a frequent opponent of meaningful reforms, the new department was able to hire cops at lower wages.

Camden dismantled police after GOP budget cuts, went on hiring spree

The most dangerous city in the US dissolved its police and crime plummeted. Some say the truth is more complicated.

www.salon.com

Sure they did, and they ended up with more cops than before. How? They got a lot of money form the state of New Jersey and federal funding from the Obama Admin. I highly Seattle can defund their PD by 50% without busting their Police Union. Camden 'received increased taxpayer funding and tens of millions in federal grants, Saolon's words, not mine. Wiill the tate of Washington pony-up a bunch of money for Seattle? Could be, but I highly doubt they'll get tens of millions in federal grants, cuz I don't think the federal gov't can or should subsidize local depts for every city that has had police issues and wants to disband or defund. Far as I'm concerned, that should be on the states and counties, and cities to provide public safety and security as they see fit and pay for it themselves.

Busting the police union is a large part of the idea. The head of the police union in Seattle had to have a lawsuit filed against him because he wouldn't quit wearing his "white power" patch. Do you really think that Seattle won't jump at the chance to defund him?

Getting rid of the head of the union is one thing, but getting rid of the whole union is another. Hey, I'm all for it, that's how Camden managed to disband their PD and still end up more cops on the street, cuz they were paying them less in total compensation after the union went away. Which came back BTW, I'm wondering what'll happen a few years down the road when that union starts bargaining for their next contract. Will Camden end up right back where they started 10 years from now? Blue state, democrats running it, yeah I'd bet money on it.

But Seattle and Minneapolis and the other major cities are another story. They can't do what Camden did, bounce the union and have the county take over the policing. I haven't heard anybody talking about what the legalities are in Washington or Minnesota for public unions, legislation would probably have to be passed and adjudicated in the courts before anything major can change.

And the other thing is the rank and file cops, how many in Seattle and every other big city that wants to defund or disband the PD re going to relocate to a smaller town or go into private security? Somehow I don't think the quality of your new PD or whatever it will be called, will be improved.

There is one important fact missing from all the replies that we can't do this or we can't do that.

We will institute reform or the country will burn.

hahhahahahahahahhaha---so you admit to be nazi like/uncivil/criminal/etc = we know....you won't burn shit---we will burn YOU, legally since you are trying to destroy the US = you are an enemy of the US

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

That's exactly what they are voting for.

1. Cut funding
2. ?????
3. Effective low impact policing?

We can see how it has worked elsewhere.

The 2018 crime rate in Cincinnati, OH is 518 (City-Data.com crime index), which is 1.9 times greater than the U.S. average. It was higher than in 96.3% U.S. cities.

Crime in Cincinnati, Ohio (OH): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

And Cincinnati didn't cut the funding for their PD by 50% either. Fewer cops = more crime. Unavoidable.

Cincinnati is not Seattle and Washington state is not Ohio, meaning the laws are different, the governing i different and the circumstances are different. Meaning what works in Cinci or anywhere else might not work in Seattle. The Seattle city council wants to cut PD funding for the rest of this year by 50%. There's no word about what their plans are to maintain law and order, frankly I suspect they don't have any beyond the wistful return to the "summer of love". Good luck with that. I know of no example in history where a big drop in your police force did not result in a significant boost in crime.

Fewer cops does not mean more crime. It means they are freed up to not go on "mental health" call as people actually trained in that can do that.

"Fewer cops does not mean more crime."

Show me one place where a city had fewer cops out there without more crime. You are lying sir.

About those mental health calls, how many of them are some kind of 'domestic disturbances' where somebody has a knife or a gun and is somewhat overly-excited? You wanna send a social worker out for that? I dunno if that is the answer, although I wouldn't doubt there are many other cases that do not require a uniformed cop with a gun. I kinda doubt a major city like Seattle can get by with half of it's police force though.

To me, the big thing with police misconduct is the lack of accountability. You just can't allow a bad cop to stay on your police force, and that occurs way too often in our major city PDs. Which are run by the democrats in almost all cases. Bad cops should be prosecuted or fired if the evidence warrants it, depending on the seriousness of the incident in question. And past history has to be considered. And none of this immunity stuff either, a badge doesn't give you the privilege to beatup or shoot somebody.

OTOH, when confronted by the police you need to STFU and comply with his directions. And you can expect to be shot if you make a move that could reasonably be construed as threatening. The cop has a right to go home to his wife and kids too.

The ironic thing is most of the issues that create the police mentality of being more important than everyone else comes from large cities under democratic control, with their excessive rules and regulations.

So cops can park in front of hydrants and bus stops overnight, but regular people can't.
They can park all over the place by their precincts, but regular people can't
They can keep firearms at home for their protection without spending money and time, but regular people can't.

Police and government employees were meant to be civil SERVANTS, not a new class of knights/nobility with more perks than the rest of us.

So why are you arguing to end that?

I am saying police need to be held more accountable and to a higher standard, but defunding them is pknopp, i.e. retarded

Fyi I am calling you a fucking retard if you are having trouble getting the point

The police do not need military equipment. The police should not be handling mental health calls. Want to make the job a 4 year college degree and pay better? OK, I'm OK with that. Otherwise they are not capable of handling many things. We've seen it.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

King County Labor Council expels Seattle police union

Do you have a problem with this?

Yes, because they are not holding any other public sector union to the same standards.

That's not the reason. What other public sector unions are carving out exemptions and defending those who murder others?

Are you trying to be an idiot and not actually respond to my statements, or is this just you being retarded?

If you wish to defend the police unions, have at it. They are going to reform or go away. People aren't pissed at the other unions.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

from YOUR link

Police had killed 15 young black men in the six years leading up to the 2001 shooting death of Timothy Thomas. The ACLU had filed a class action suit alleging that the police had violated the civil rights of 14 young black men by shooting them, profiling them and illegally stopping and searching them.

.....NO evidence of police brutality and NO evidence those shootings were unjustified!!!!!!!!!! = your link is worthless and proves nothing
AND --AND ---AND--this proves MY point in the link I posted:
....15 killed in 6 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...less than 3 per year!!!!!!!!!!!--how many unjustified???!!! 1??? 1 in 3 years???!!
it's all in my link explaining that there is no problem

It's going to stop. We can argue whether something works or it doesn't all day and it's worthless. Reform is going to happen or the country burns.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Yeah...sell that to the democrats....they will believe anything.

I have no desire to. I doubt either party really wants to be the one to deal with the country burning.