Seattle to defund Police by 50 percent!!!

[martybegan]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

That's exactly what they are voting for.

1. Cut funding
2. ?????
3. Effective low impact policing?

We can see how it has worked elsewhere.

The 2018 crime rate in Cincinnati, OH is 518 (City-Data.com crime index), which is 1.9 times greater than the U.S. average. It was higher than in 96.3% U.S. cities.

Crime in Cincinnati, Ohio (OH): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

And Cincinnati didn't cut the funding for their PD by 50% either. Fewer cops = more crime. Unavoidable.

Cincinnati is not Seattle and Washington state is not Ohio, meaning the laws are different, the governing i different and the circumstances are different. Meaning what works in Cinci or anywhere else might not work in Seattle. The Seattle city council wants to cut PD funding for the rest of this year by 50%. There's no word about what their plans are to maintain law and order, frankly I suspect they don't have any beyond the wistful return to the "summer of love". Good luck with that. I know of no example in history where a big drop in your police force did not result in a significant boost in crime.

Fewer cops does not mean more crime. It means they are freed up to not go on "mental health" call as people actually trained in that can do that.

"Fewer cops does not mean more crime."

Show me one place where a city had fewer cops out there without more crime. You are lying sir.

About those mental health calls, how many of them are some kind of 'domestic disturbances' where somebody has a knife or a gun and is somewhat overly-excited? You wanna send a social worker out for that? I dunno if that is the answer, although I wouldn't doubt there are many other cases that do not require a uniformed cop with a gun. I kinda doubt a major city like Seattle can get by with half of it's police force though.

To me, the big thing with police misconduct is the lack of accountability. You just can't allow a bad cop to stay on your police force, and that occurs way too often in our major city PDs. Which are run by the democrats in almost all cases. Bad cops should be prosecuted or fired if the evidence warrants it, depending on the seriousness of the incident in question. And past history has to be considered. And none of this immunity stuff either, a badge doesn't give you the privilege to beatup or shoot somebody.

OTOH, when confronted by the police you need to STFU and comply with his directions. And you can expect to be shot if you make a move that could reasonably be construed as threatening. The cop has a right to go home to his wife and kids too.

No, the police must learn and have it beat into their heads if necessary what they can and can not do. If they tell you something they can not do we need to say "NO". They need to back off.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

King County Labor Council expels Seattle police union

Do you have a problem with this?

 

[task0778]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Yeah Camden, let me tell you about Camden. They disbanded their police force and joined up with other cities in their county to create a county police force and ended up with more cops on the streets of Camden then they had before. Now Camden is not a particularly large city, around 75,000 or so if I remember right. So what worked for them isn't going to work for Seattle, Minnesota, and other big cities cuz the surrounding towns don't have the money to pay for policing the big city next door.

One more time, fewer cops on the street ALWAYS results in more crime.

 

[BluesLegend]

Not 48% or 52.3% some idiot liberal pulled that nice round 50% number out of their ass.

 

[martybegan]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

That's exactly what they are voting for.

1. Cut funding
2. ?????
3. Effective low impact policing?

We can see how it has worked elsewhere.

The 2018 crime rate in Cincinnati, OH is 518 (City-Data.com crime index), which is 1.9 times greater than the U.S. average. It was higher than in 96.3% U.S. cities.

Crime in Cincinnati, Ohio (OH): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

And Cincinnati didn't cut the funding for their PD by 50% either. Fewer cops = more crime. Unavoidable.

Cincinnati is not Seattle and Washington state is not Ohio, meaning the laws are different, the governing i different and the circumstances are different. Meaning what works in Cinci or anywhere else might not work in Seattle. The Seattle city council wants to cut PD funding for the rest of this year by 50%. There's no word about what their plans are to maintain law and order, frankly I suspect they don't have any beyond the wistful return to the "summer of love". Good luck with that. I know of no example in history where a big drop in your police force did not result in a significant boost in crime.

Fewer cops does not mean more crime. It means they are freed up to not go on "mental health" call as people actually trained in that can do that.

"Fewer cops does not mean more crime."

Show me one place where a city had fewer cops out there without more crime. You are lying sir.

About those mental health calls, how many of them are some kind of 'domestic disturbances' where somebody has a knife or a gun and is somewhat overly-excited? You wanna send a social worker out for that? I dunno if that is the answer, although I wouldn't doubt there are many other cases that do not require a uniformed cop with a gun. I kinda doubt a major city like Seattle can get by with half of it's police force though.

To me, the big thing with police misconduct is the lack of accountability. You just can't allow a bad cop to stay on your police force, and that occurs way too often in our major city PDs. Which are run by the democrats in almost all cases. Bad cops should be prosecuted or fired if the evidence warrants it, depending on the seriousness of the incident in question. And past history has to be considered. And none of this immunity stuff either, a badge doesn't give you the privilege to beatup or shoot somebody.

OTOH, when confronted by the police you need to STFU and comply with his directions. And you can expect to be shot if you make a move that could reasonably be construed as threatening. The cop has a right to go home to his wife and kids too.

The ironic thing is most of the issues that create the police mentality of being more important than everyone else comes from large cities under democratic control, with their excessive rules and regulations.

So cops can park in front of hydrants and bus stops overnight, but regular people can't.
They can park all over the place by their precincts, but regular people can't
They can keep firearms at home for their protection without spending money and time, but regular people can't.

Police and government employees were meant to be civil SERVANTS, not a new class of knights/nobility with more perks than the rest of us.

 

[martybegan]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

King County Labor Council expels Seattle police union

Do you have a problem with this?

Yes, because they are not holding any other public sector union to the same standards.

 

[22lcidw]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Bwhahhaaa! Camden makes a ghetto seem upscale. The counties in New Jersey are pure suckers if a city is part of them. Camden County has massive taxes. The city of Camden takes their share and more. For they certainly do not have much of a tax base. Drugs and gangs baby!

 

[Thinker101]

The liberal's promise land.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

Do you deflect often when you can't produce the goods?

They "disbanded" their department. Does that mean there are no police?

This city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next

Yeah Camden, let me tell you about Camden. They disbanded their police force and joined up with other cities in their county to create a county police force and ended up with more cops on the streets of Camden then they had before. Now Camden is not a particularly large city, around 75,000 or so if I remember right. So what worked for them isn't going to work for Seattle, Minnesota, and other big cities cuz the surrounding towns don't have the money to pay for policing the big city next door.

One more time, fewer cops on the street ALWAYS results in more crime.

Camden ended up paying less. Remember, they got rid of the police union.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

That's exactly what they are voting for.

1. Cut funding
2. ?????
3. Effective low impact policing?

We can see how it has worked elsewhere.

The 2018 crime rate in Cincinnati, OH is 518 (City-Data.com crime index), which is 1.9 times greater than the U.S. average. It was higher than in 96.3% U.S. cities.

Crime in Cincinnati, Ohio (OH): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

And Cincinnati didn't cut the funding for their PD by 50% either. Fewer cops = more crime. Unavoidable.

Cincinnati is not Seattle and Washington state is not Ohio, meaning the laws are different, the governing i different and the circumstances are different. Meaning what works in Cinci or anywhere else might not work in Seattle. The Seattle city council wants to cut PD funding for the rest of this year by 50%. There's no word about what their plans are to maintain law and order, frankly I suspect they don't have any beyond the wistful return to the "summer of love". Good luck with that. I know of no example in history where a big drop in your police force did not result in a significant boost in crime.

Fewer cops does not mean more crime. It means they are freed up to not go on "mental health" call as people actually trained in that can do that.

"Fewer cops does not mean more crime."

Show me one place where a city had fewer cops out there without more crime. You are lying sir.

About those mental health calls, how many of them are some kind of 'domestic disturbances' where somebody has a knife or a gun and is somewhat overly-excited? You wanna send a social worker out for that? I dunno if that is the answer, although I wouldn't doubt there are many other cases that do not require a uniformed cop with a gun. I kinda doubt a major city like Seattle can get by with half of it's police force though.

To me, the big thing with police misconduct is the lack of accountability. You just can't allow a bad cop to stay on your police force, and that occurs way too often in our major city PDs. Which are run by the democrats in almost all cases. Bad cops should be prosecuted or fired if the evidence warrants it, depending on the seriousness of the incident in question. And past history has to be considered. And none of this immunity stuff either, a badge doesn't give you the privilege to beatup or shoot somebody.

OTOH, when confronted by the police you need to STFU and comply with his directions. And you can expect to be shot if you make a move that could reasonably be construed as threatening. The cop has a right to go home to his wife and kids too.

The ironic thing is most of the issues that create the police mentality of being more important than everyone else comes from large cities under democratic control, with their excessive rules and regulations.

So cops can park in front of hydrants and bus stops overnight, but regular people can't.
They can park all over the place by their precincts, but regular people can't
They can keep firearms at home for their protection without spending money and time, but regular people can't.

Police and government employees were meant to be civil SERVANTS, not a new class of knights/nobility with more perks than the rest of us.

So why are you arguing to end that?

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

What worked? Defunding the budget by 50%....and it worked?
Please provide a link to that one.

I have to chuckle. The "defund" part is to disband the unions but now we have the right arguing against that.

The thing is your side is only singling out police unions. ALL public sector unions should be disbanded.

You get civil service protections, or you get union protections, you shouldn't get both.

Argue that. This is about the police. Should we discuss the carpenters unions here also? If we get to the point where they are beating people and killing them and the carpenters unions start defending them you will likely get your way.

But you say you want to get rid of the unions. Why fight that here?

Public sector unions, not all unions. Try to stop being dense, or stupid, or stupid/dense.

Fine, when teachers start beating kids and killing them with the teacher unions defending them, you will likely win that argument.

So again, why the defense of the unions now?

Wow, talk about obtuse.

The issue with Public sector unions is that the people negotiating against them don't have a real dog in the fight. They can agree to placate the unions, and then kick the cost can down the road. And the issue with teachers unions in particular is they really only protect the really bad teachers. Read up on NYC's rubber rooms for some info on that.

Show me where specifically Seattle's 50% defunding of the police calls for disestablishing their union.

King County Labor Council expels Seattle police union

Do you have a problem with this?

Yes, because they are not holding any other public sector union to the same standards.

That's not the reason. What other public sector unions are carving out exemptions and defending those who murder others?

 

[Coyote]

Gotta love the low mentality of the liberals. What could possibly go wrong?

While I personally feel the low mentality of conservatives is irritating....have to agree with up you on this. Dumb dumb dumb.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Seattle was once a glorious place and now it’s the white trash drug capital of the Milky Way

NYC defunded and murder up 40 percent

Seen my first RACISM in Seattle, many many years ago. A black dude and white dude were going to duke it out. Out of the blue, I would say racism for sure. Black dude backed down until his friend showed up, so he turned around and they busted the white dude over the head with a bottle, and then he ran off.

My son doesn't understand, but where I live we didn't think racism. Mexicans though few were just people, same with blacks, same with Asian. We had a lot of Indians, just people. Then PROGS came along, ruined everything.

 

[Coyote]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

How....out of curiosity, how has it worked out? It seems unwise...reform seems like a better avenue.

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

How....out of curiosity, how has it worked out? It seems unwise...reform seems like a better avenue.

It's all reform. None of this would be happening if people would have called for and enacted reform long ago. There are still a large number fighting reforms.

 

[Thinker101]

Gotta love the low mentality of the liberals. What could possibly go wrong?

While I personally feel the low mentality of conservatives is irritating....have to agree with up you on this. Dumb dumb dumb.

If you feel that way you can only imagine how irritating liberals are.

 

[Coyote]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

How....out of curiosity, how has it worked out? It seems unwise...reform seems like a better avenue.

It's all reform. None of this would be happening if people would have called for and enacted reform long ago. There are still a large number fighting reforms.

Then is meant by defunding by 50%?

 

[Coyote]

Gotta love the low mentality of the liberals. What could possibly go wrong?

While I personally feel the low mentality of conservatives is irritating....have to agree with up you on this. Dumb dumb dumb.

If you feel that way you can only imagine how irritating liberals are.

I suspect they are as irritating to you as conservatives are to me

 

[pknopp]

Reform works.

Could Police Reform In Cincinnati Provide Model For Ferguson?

Reform can work yes.
However Cincinnati didn't remove 50% of the police budget and call it "reform".
They made legitimate changes... not just remove half their budget and think that is a good thing
Know the difference their champ.

And BTW - many municipal law enforcement have already adopted many of the ground breaking reforms Cincy did years ago.

Seattle isn't simply going to cut funding and nothing else .

Right, we know that, they're going to cut funding and increase crime.

It's worked elsewhere and will also in Seattle.

How....out of curiosity, how has it worked out? It seems unwise...reform seems like a better avenue.

It's all reform. None of this would be happening if people would have called for and enacted reform long ago. There are still a large number fighting reforms.

Then is meant by defunding by 50%?

The rest will go to mental health professionals. Facilities to care for people. Etc