Scotland loses indyref2

[BackAgain]

They sent a letter - but the letter still did not arrive in the British colonies of America. So you are perhaps not independent - without to know this. A tragedy. All this 4th of July parades ... for nothing ... except for fun.

Nonsense. The Declaration wasn’t considered to “only effective upon delivery.” It instead clearly stated that we were (and “of right ought to be”) free and independent. It declared our status. It didn’t ask for anything.

 

[zaangalewa]

Nonsense.

Aha.

The Declaration wasn’t considered to “only effective upon delivery.”

Which declaration?

It instead clearly stated that we were (and “of right ought to be”) free and independent.

Who is "we"?

It declared our status.

Someone declared your status? You are your status. What has someone to declare about?

It didn’t ask for anything.

I do not understand what you say here. Who "declared" what about ¿Scotland?

Oh sorry. Now I got it! I forgot to tell you that I am a German and we do not have any form of humor. Also a tragedy. The world is full of tragedies. Sigh.

 

[BackAgain]

Aha.



Which declaration?



Who is "we"?



Someone declared your status? You are your status. What has someone to declare about?



I do not understand what you say here. Who "declared" what about ¿Scotland?

Oh sorry. Now I got it! I forgot to tell you that I am a German and we do not have any form of humor.

We refers to the same topic you had discussed. The people of the then newly formed United States.

I’m not sure why you think it is informative to play at being obtuse. Being German doesn’t suffice as a reason.

We, the People of America, declared our independence from Great Britain. In declaring our independence, we asserted our status as an independent nation.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Tommy Tainant You claim you're Welsh, I doubt it, but we'll go with that premise.

Wales want to independent and the leave campaign stand up and claim that want Wales to leave the union so they can govern themselves. But, they want to keep to keep sterling and be an EU member. So Westminster governs their currency and the EU governs Upton 75% of their laws.

Do you feel the people were told the truth about self governance, or told a lie?

You do realise that Scotland and Wales have control of their own budget, and particularly in Scotland, it's over £1,500 per head more than in England.

No dcision has been taken on any currency. That is still a way down the track. Where do you get this shit from ? Gammon Weekly ?

And why cant Scotland or Wales keep sterling. It belongs as much to us as it does to England.

We will also get our share of everything that we have paid taxes for. Military hardware, HS2 and so on. you can keep your tampon king and his dysfunctional family.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Scotland was a member of the EU - so what should she not be able to pass - if such a "test" - whatever "test" this could be - should be necessary to be made.

The UK was a member of the EU, not Scotland, not England, not Wales.

Here is a link to the current EU test -

Joining the EU

Becoming a member of the EU is a complex procedure which does not happen overnight. Once an applicant country meets the conditions for membership.

european-union.europa.eu

The 2nd paragraph currently states -

Any country that satisfies the conditions for membership can apply. These conditions are known as the ‘Copenhagen criteria’ and include a stable democracy and the rule of law, a functioning market economy and the acceptance of all EU legislation, including of the euro.

But Sturgeon claims Scotland is going to govern itself, whilst being part of the EU. In essence, create it's own laws and control it's currency, despite it being the sterling.

Can you see how fucked up Sturgeon, the Sturgeon lies, and the Scottish independence Yes voters are? I doubt it.

 

[Captain Caveman]

No dcision has been taken on any currency. That is still a way down the track. Where do you get this shit from ? Gammon Weekly ?

And why cant Scotland or Wales keep sterling. It belongs as much to us as it does to England.

We will also get our share of everything that we have paid taxes for. Military hardware, HS2 and so on. you can keep your tampon king and his dysfunctional family.

The currency farce came from Scotland.

Now you can get back to answering the questions.

 

[zaangalewa]

We refers to the same topic you had discussed. The people of the then newly formed United States.

Of what?

I’m not sure why you think it is informative to play at being obtuse. Being German doesn’t suffice as a reason.

The world reduces Germany to 12 years Hitler. My avatar - the lionman - is made from a 32,000 years old ancestor. Are you sure you know what you try to speak about when you use the ancient Roman word "German" for us?

We, the People of America, declared our independence from Great Britain.

I know. A German newspaper in the USA translated and published it faster than any of the English newspapers did not have to translate but published it.

In declaring our independence, we asserted our status as an independent nation.

You did do much more. But looks like you forget often what you did do on your own. You based the USA on god given unalienable human rights. Freedom is such an unalienable human right. Human beings like to be free and they have the right to be free. The Scots are free. They have every right to think about their "marriage" with the UK and their relations to anyone else in the world. Their common will - hopefully carried from rationality and love - decides how they like to live - not anything else should force them. And by the way: I am not happy about that GB left the EU - but this not means England or Great Britain or the UK is alone. Believe it or not: It are only the Brits and US-Americans who hate Germany and Germans - what's by the way a mystery to me, because this makes not any sense. We never did do so.

 

[zaangalewa]

The UK was a member of the EU, not Scotland, not England, not Wales. ...

Scotland was a member of the EU - or do you think Bavaria is not a member of the EU? The situation of Scotland is for sure not comparable with the situation of anyone else. The "problem" is in this case a kind of "retransfer". A new situation. But new situations are nothing new for the EU. I'm sure they will find a good way. And also in case Scotland stays to be a part of the UK and has to be outside of the EU. England, Scotland and Wales are also Europe - always will be - and not enemies of the EU. Everyone has to seek for a new balance in this context.

 

[zaangalewa]

... But Sturgeon claims Scotland is going to govern itself, whilst being part of the EU. In essence, create it's own laws and control it's currency, despite it being the sterling.

Can you see how fucked up Sturgeon, the Sturgeon lies, and the Scottish independence Yes voters are? I doubt it.

And Scotand is now more free with the currency "pound" and the government in London? And please: I am a German. I am able to use any form of spearwords and a rough speech in all contextes - I am even very talented in doing so. But I do not like this - this hurts my own "nature". I do not know Mr. Sturgeon and I do not understand what's your personal problem with this man. Let it be to use expressions like "fucked up" when you speak with me.

 

[BackAgain]

Of what?

Don’t be so obtuse.

The world reduces Germany to 12 years Hitler. My avatar - the lionman - is made from a 32,000 years old ancestor. Are you sure you know what you try to speak about when you use the ancient Roman word "German" for us?

Yep.

 

[fncceo]

Isn’t that like saying that the American colonies (claiming to be United States) had to get permission from the British Parliament to declare independence?

I believe that was England's position on that very subject ...

 

[BackAgain]

I believe that was England's position on that very subject ...

View attachment 747707

I agree. It was.

But we disagreed with the Brits. And a war got fought. Otherwise, we would have still been waiting for their permission.

 

[fncceo]

I agree. It was.

But we disagreed with the Brits. And a war got fought. Otherwise, we would have still been waiting for their permission.

I doubt it. In the post-war era, England unloaded their colonies with both hands. They were paying millions to their previous colonies just so they would become independent.

On the other hand, if America had still been a British colony at the start of World War 2, I suspect England (and their colonies) would be part of a greater German empire.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yep.

Aha. One more god on this planet.

 

[zaangalewa]

... On the other hand, if America had still been a British colony at the start of World War 2, I suspect England (and their colonies) would be part of a greater German empire.

You don't understand the word "Reich" and you don't understand the word "deutsch". This is just simple impossible. And you make not a difference between Prussians and Germans - and also between Nazis (racist Darwinists) and Germans. William II for example - the Prussian emperor over Germany - had been a Brit who had been educated from his grandma Queen Victoria. The Prussian empire had been an offshoot of the British empire and not a branch of the Holy Roman empire of German (=united) nation. A branch of the Holy Empire not had been Germany under the Prussians - it had been Austria-Hungaria.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Scotland was a member of the EU - or do you think Bavaria is not a member of the EU? The situation of Scotland is for sure not comparable with the situation of anyone else. The "problem" is in this case a kind of "retransfer". A new situation. But new situations are nothing new for the EU. I'm sure they will find a good way. And also in case Scotland stays to be a part of the UK and has to be outside of the EU. England, Scotland and Wales are also Europe - always will be - and not enemies of the EU. Everyone has to seek for a new balance in this context.

The UK was a member of the EU, that also included Gibraltar.

I'll update your knowledge. Scottish independence vote happened BEFORE the Brexit vote. If Scotland went independent, they would no longer be part of the EU because it's the UK that has membership, and so Scotland would have had to apply. The UK had opt outs that Scotland wouldn't be able to achieve. Spain weighed in on this

EU membership: Spain vs Scotland - Full Fact

It’s often assumed that Spain, with one eye on the independence movement in Catalonia, would stop an independent Scotland from joining the EU. Would it?

fullfact.org

 

[zaangalewa]

The UK was a member of the EU, that also included Gibraltar.

I'll update your knowledge. Scottish independence vote happened BEFORE the Brexit vote.

Exactly. And because many European nations did not like to split the EU they suggested to Scotland to stay in GB. And also for GB this was a an argument that Scotland should stay.

If Scotland went independent, they would no longer be part of the EU because it's the UK that has membership, and so Scotland would have had to apply.

No. Scotland did not vote for the Brexit - they voted against the Brexit. This changed the situation completely. We could transfer all privilegss of GB to Scotland and argue GB became independent from Scotland as it also became independent from the EU and Scotland is now the follower of GB in the EU. Then we had only to correct the number of inhabitants and differences in the economic situation of Scotland. And the currency pound could perhaps also be a problem.

The UK had opt outs that Scotland wouldn't be able to achieve. Spain weighed in on this

EU membership: Spain vs Scotland - Full Fact

It’s often assumed that Spain, with one eye on the independence movement in Catalonia, would stop an independent Scotland from joining the EU. Would it?

fullfact.org

I don't see any real problem for the EU nor do I see any real problem for Scotland. If there are real problems then we could also make a form of privileged partnership and solve this problems. Ireland is a member of the EU - so why not Scotland? That's not a big difference.

 

[Captain Caveman]

And Scotand is now more free with the currency "pound" and the government in London? And please: I am a German. I am able to use any form of spearwords and a rough speech in all contextes - I am even very talented in doing so. But I do not like this - this hurts my own "nature". I do not know Mr. Sturgeon and I do not understand what's your personal problem with this man. Let it be to use expressions like "fucked up" when you speak with me.

Could you look at your post again and decipher that mumble jumble for me please.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Exactly. And because many European nations did not like to split the EU they suggested to Scotland to stay in GB. And also for GB this was a an argument that Scotland should stay.



No. Scotland did not vote for the Brexit - they voted against the Brexit. This changed the situation completely. We could transfer all privilegss of GB to Scotland and argue GB became independent from Scotland as it also became independent from the EU and Scotland is now the follower of GB in the EU. Then we had only to correct the number of inhabitants and differences in the economic situation of Scotland. And the currency pound could perhaps also be a problem.



I don't see any real problem for the EU nor do I see any real problem for Scotland. If there are real problems then we could also make a form of privileged partnership and solve this problems. Ireland is a member of the EU - so why not Scotland? That's not a big difference.

Correct, Scotland didn't vote on Brexit, the UK did.

If you think Scotland is gonna have a hard border with Ireland, you haven't been following the news of this current problem. I don't know what your knowledge is like with geography, but living on the Scottish English border, I'd love to see how customs control is gonna work.

The UK is collective, it wasn't an individualism vote. It's like saying, "My side of the street voted in, the opposite side of the street voted out, we should be allowed in and put up a barrier down the middle of the road".

You've gotta get with the fucking programme here.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Don't get me wrong zaangalewa , if Scotland wanted to go independent, Sturgeon should be asking Westminster to give the English a referendum. We would get rid of those whining, ginger, inbred fuckers in an instant. This would save the English tax payer a fortune. Then it will only be a matter of years Scotland went bust.

Hand on heart, I'll tell you what I would do as PM in 30 years time. Give Scotland a referendum based on one condition, if they remain, Scottish government/parliament is dissolved and just becomes a council under Westminster.