School Shootings and Veteran Suicide rates connected?

[Timmy]

Lots of people come back from the Mid East all screwy . Bush’s wars are the gift that keeps giving .

Not just suicides either . How many of these police shootings or Standoff’s involve an ex vet ?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Bullshit. People take anti-depressants because it makes them less depressed. If they didn't help they wouldn't take them.
You confuse cause and effect.

Read the link. Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

You could care less that Big Pharma is responsible for our Warriors suicides, as long as you get to howl at the moon about the NRA.

More bullshit. I fought in Vietnam and have PTSD issues. I was an Army medic and licensed nurse who worked in military and civilian hospitals all over this country and a few other ones. Including military and civilian psychiatric units. Present some actual evidence or STFU. I read the link and no proof there either. Nothing is more left wing than HuffPost.

You'd prefer Right Wing?, cuz when I show the same studies, only reported by Right Wing Press, the left gets bent out of shape.

Ever wonder why the rate of veteran suicides have increased so much more than the years after Vietnam?

Watchdog Says Psychotropic Drug Link to Military and Veteran Suicides Warrants Federal Probe | Markets Insider

This one right wing enough?

You continue to beg the question as do your links. Your link calls for a probe and/or investigation but certainly provides no proof or even hard evidence of your claim and does in fact admit that some psychiatrists do not agree.
Do more people who take anti-depressants commit suicide more often than average? Absolutely. The risk of suicide is why they are prescribed the medications to begin with. Duh!

 

[9thIDdoc]

Bushes wars? Why not Obama's wars? Bush never got an ambassador killed. Actually they are MY wars and yours' as well if you are an American. Man up.

 

[Pop23]

Bullshit. People take anti-depressants because it makes them less depressed. If they didn't help they wouldn't take them.
You confuse cause and effect.

Read the link. Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

You could care less that Big Pharma is responsible for our Warriors suicides, as long as you get to howl at the moon about the NRA.

More bullshit. I fought in Vietnam and have PTSD issues. I was an Army medic and licensed nurse who worked in military and civilian hospitals all over this country and a few other ones. Including military and civilian psychiatric units. Present some actual evidence or STFU. I read the link and no proof there either. Nothing is more left wing than HuffPost.

You'd prefer Right Wing?, cuz when I show the same studies, only reported by Right Wing Press, the left gets bent out of shape.

Ever wonder why the rate of veteran suicides have increased so much more than the years after Vietnam?

Watchdog Says Psychotropic Drug Link to Military and Veteran Suicides Warrants Federal Probe | Markets Insider

This one right wing enough?

You continue to beg the question as do your links. Your link calls for a probe and/or investigation but certainly provides no proof or even hard evidence of your claim and does in fact admit that some psychiatrists do not agree.
Do more people who take anti-depressants commit suicide more often than average? Absolutely. The risk of suicide is why they are prescribed the medications to begin with. Duh!

Oh, ok, that’s why the suicide rate increases with the increased use of these drugs, by those on these drugs, while those using other methods stay somewhat constant.

Antidepressants can raise the risk of suicide, biggest ever review finds

 

[9thIDdoc]

 

[jillian]

The silence from the left is deafening

Guess it's true, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The left, so hell bent on gun control, when confronted with the fact that their other Enemy "Big Pharma" appears to be creating the monsters that actually do the school shootings, go quite. Guess Big Pharma are their good buddies as long as they can now point their fingers at the NRA.

Why am I not surprised?

your hypothetical is stupid. it's intended as a troll. nothing more.

 

[Pop23]

The silence from the left is deafening

Guess it's true, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The left, so hell bent on gun control, when confronted with the fact that their other Enemy "Big Pharma" appears to be creating the monsters that actually do the school shootings, go quite. Guess Big Pharma are their good buddies as long as they can now point their fingers at the NRA.

Why am I not surprised?

your hypothetical is stupid. it's intended as a troll. nothing more.

Bullshit. My links are to experts. Your opinion ain’t worth piss.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Lots of people come back from the Mid East all screwy . Bush’s wars are the gift that keeps giving .

Not just suicides either . How many of these police shootings or Standoff’s involve an ex vet ?

Bullshit. People take anti-depressants because it makes them less depressed. If they didn't help they wouldn't take them.
You confuse cause and effect.

Read the link. Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

You could care less that Big Pharma is responsible for our Warriors suicides, as long as you get to howl at the moon about the NRA.

More bullshit. I fought in Vietnam and have PTSD issues. I was an Army medic and licensed nurse who worked in military and civilian hospitals all over this country and a few other ones. Including military and civilian psychiatric units. Present some actual evidence or STFU. I read the link and no proof there either. Nothing is more left wing than HuffPost.

You'd prefer Right Wing?, cuz when I show the same studies, only reported by Right Wing Press, the left gets bent out of shape.

Ever wonder why the rate of veteran suicides have increased so much more than the years after Vietnam?

Watchdog Says Psychotropic Drug Link to Military and Veteran Suicides Warrants Federal Probe | Markets Insider

This one right wing enough?

You continue to beg the question as do your links. Your link calls for a probe and/or investigation but certainly provides no proof or even hard evidence of your claim and does in fact admit that some psychiatrists do not agree.
Do more people who take anti-depressants commit suicide more often than average? Absolutely. The risk of suicide is why they are prescribed the medications to begin with. Duh!

Oh, ok, that’s why the suicide rate increases with the increased use of these drugs, by those on these drugs, while those using other methods stay somewhat constant.

Antidepressants can raise the risk of suicide, biggest ever review finds

An analysis of 70 trials of the most common antidepressants - involving more than 18,000 people - found they doubled the risk of suicide and aggressive behaviour in under 18s.

Although a similarly stark link was not seen in adults,

More question begging? FYI most soldiers and veterans are over 18 y/o
What part of ".. similarly stark link was not seen in adults," do you not understand?

 

[Timmy]

Bushes wars? Why not Obama's wars? Bush never got an ambassador killed. Actually they are MY wars and yours' as well if you are an American. Man up.

Obama ended Iraq . But we are stuck in Afghan .

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the OP might have some kind of point, but unfortunately, most mass shootings have been done by civilians, not military veterans.

The only mass shooting done by a military person that I'm aware of was the shrink that shot up the base and killed all those soldiers, but I don't think he was on anti depressants. I think he had a serious case of jihad fever.

 

[Pop23]

You know, the OP might have some kind of point, but unfortunately, most mass shootings have been done by civilians, not military veterans.

The only mass shooting done by a military person that I'm aware of was the shrink that shot up the base and killed all those soldiers, but I don't think he was on anti depressants. I think he had a serious case of jihad fever.

from the link: Is it Drugs Not Guns that Cause Violence? | HuffPost

Below are some of the mass-murderer statistics (thanks to Deborah Merlin and her book, Victory Over ADHD ):

The Virginia Tech shooter murdered thirty-two. Cho was prescribed the antidepressant drug Prozac prior to his rampage.

Jeffrey Weiss went on a shooting rampage on March 21, 2005, at Red Lake High School that left ten dead, including him. Earlier that day, Weiss had killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend. He was on Prozac and the dosage had recently been increased.

Eric Harris, one of the killers at Columbine High School, was on the antidepressant drug Luvox. Court records show that the prescription for Harris had been filled ten times between April 1998 and March 1999.Three and a half months before the shooting, the dosage had been increased. The Physician’s Desk Reference records show that during controlled clinical trials of Luvox, manic reactions developed in 4 percent of the children given the drug.

In Houston, Texas, Andrea Yates drowned her five children while taking Effexor and Remeron.

Christopher Pittman shot and killed his grandparents at age twelve. He claimed a voice inside his head told him to kill his grandparents on November 28, 2001. Christopher had recently started to take Zoloft to treat mild depression."

And This: From Prozac to Parkland: Are Psychiatric Drugs Causing Mass Shootings?

• “Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox — like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of antidepressant drug called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs.” Along with fellow student Dylan Klebold, Harris shot 13 to death and wounded 24 in a headline-grabbing 1999 rampage. “Luvox manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox — that’s one in 25 — developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.”

• Twenty-five-year-old Patrick Purdy murdered five children and wounded 30 in a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, California, in 1989. He’d been taking “Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.”

• “Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Oregon, and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.”

WND’s Leo Hohmann adds to the picture, having reported in 2015 (all quotations are his):

• “Aaron Ray Ybarra, 26, of Mountlake Terrace, Washington, allegedly opened fire with a shotgun at Seattle Pacific University in June 2014, killing one student and wounding two others.” Ybarra “said he’d been prescribed with Prozac and Risperdal to help him with his problems.”

• “Jose Reyes, the Nevada seventh-grader who went on a shooting rampage at his school in October 2013 was taking a prescription antidepressant [Prozac] at the time….”

• “Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis sprayed bullets at office workers and in a cafeteria on Sept. 16, 2013, killing 13 people including himself. Alexis had been prescribed [generic antidepressant] Trazodone by his Veterans Affairs doctor.”

• “In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the antidepressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.”

• “In Paducah, Kentucky, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school’s lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.”

• “In 2005, 16-year-old Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota’s Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.”

• “47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Kentucky, killing nine. Prozac-maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.”

And there are many, many more examples.

 

[Pop23]

Bullshit. People take anti-depressants because it makes them less depressed. If they didn't help they wouldn't take them.
You confuse cause and effect.

Read the link. Go ahead and put your head in the sand.

You could care less that Big Pharma is responsible for our Warriors suicides, as long as you get to howl at the moon about the NRA.

More bullshit. I fought in Vietnam and have PTSD issues. I was an Army medic and licensed nurse who worked in military and civilian hospitals all over this country and a few other ones. Including military and civilian psychiatric units. Present some actual evidence or STFU. I read the link and no proof there either. Nothing is more left wing than HuffPost.

You'd prefer Right Wing?, cuz when I show the same studies, only reported by Right Wing Press, the left gets bent out of shape.

Ever wonder why the rate of veteran suicides have increased so much more than the years after Vietnam?

Watchdog Says Psychotropic Drug Link to Military and Veteran Suicides Warrants Federal Probe | Markets Insider

This one right wing enough?

You continue to beg the question as do your links. Your link calls for a probe and/or investigation but certainly provides no proof or even hard evidence of your claim and does in fact admit that some psychiatrists do not agree.
Do more people who take anti-depressants commit suicide more often than average? Absolutely. The risk of suicide is why they are prescribed the medications to begin with. Duh!

Source: People who take antidepressants are '50% more likely to be convicted of assault' | Daily Mail Online

Popular antidepressant pills make young people violent, it is feared.

An Oxford University study found that men – and women – in their late teens and early 20s – were almost 50 per cent more likely to be convicted of offences from assault to murder when taking SSRI drugs.

This family of anti-depressants includes Prozac, as well as Seroxat, Lustral, Cipralex and Cipramil, the most commonly prescribed of the pills.

One in eight Britons takes SSRIs each year – and the number of prescription has doubled in the last decade.

Meanwhile in the US around 11 per cent of people aged 12 and over take antidepressants, including SSRIs, according to the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention.

It's not just teens, this study by Oxford University were into the early twenties, when most Soldiers are leaving the Military.

Source: SSRI Antidepressant Drug Induced Suicide in the Military - Jeffrey Dach MD

“Controlled clinical trials, epidemiological studies, and clinical reports confirm that the SSRIs and other stimulating antidepressants cause suicidality, aggression, and mania in children and adults of all ages. Young adults aged 18 to 24 (the age of many soldiers) may be especially at risk for antidepressant-induced suicidality. There is a strong probability that the increasing suicide rates among active-duty soldiers are in part caused or exacerbated by the widespread prescription of antidepressant medication. By themselves, these drugs cause a dangerous stimulant-like profile of adverse reactions. These symptoms of activation can combine adversely with similar PTSD symptoms found so commonly in soldiers during and after combat. The military should study the relationship between psychiatric drug treatment and suicide as well as random or personal violence. The military should rely on the psychological and educational programs that are currently in use and under development for preventing suicide and ameliorating stress among service members (e.g., Department of Defense, 2010).
Antidepressants should be avoided in the treatment of military personnel ”

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Americans suffer from PTSD. Who DOESN"T suffer from PTSD? The fighters that come here from other countries, Iraqi and Afghan immigrants don't suffer from PTSD. Gang bangers never get PTSD. They see more combat than some guy who puts in a few months here and there then comes back.

What is it about Americans that they get PTSD.

Americans didn't always get PTSD. During the settlement of this country with attacks by Indians and fighting the French or British, no one got PTSD. Who got PTSD in the Civil War? No one. After pulling a plow all day and fighting off indian attacks at night during the westward expansion no one got PTSD. No wonder men are told to "cowboy up". That's the last time we had any men to speak of. In medieval times when combat was hand to hand and very bloody, no one got PTSD.

I do not believe that PTSD is a real condition. Men have PTSD because they can. It is an affliction of the modern male. If they had to fight their way through life on a daily basis, hunt food, butcher their own animals and worry about gettng bushwhacked, scalped or beaned with a war hammer they wouldn't have time for PTSD.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Americans suffer from PTSD. Who DOESN"T suffer from PTSD? The fighters that come here from other countries, Iraqi and Afghan immigrants don't suffer from PTSD. Gang bangers never get PTSD. They see more combat than some guy who puts in a few months here and there then comes back.

What is it about Americans that they get PTSD.

Americans didn't always get PTSD. During the settlement of this country with attacks by Indians and fighting the French or British, no one got PTSD. Who got PTSD in the Civil War? No one. After pulling a plow all day and fighting off indian attacks at night during the westward expansion no one got PTSD. No wonder men are told to "cowboy up". That's the last time we had any men to speak of. In medieval times when combat was hand to hand and very bloody, no one got PTSD.

I do not believe that PTSD is a real condition. Men have PTSD because they can. It is an affliction of the modern male. If they had to fight their way through life on a daily basis, hunt food, butcher their own animals and worry about gettng bushwhacked, scalped or beaned with a war hammer they wouldn't have time for PTSD.

What a through display of ignorance! You really should learn something about the subject before shooting your mouth off. PTSD has been around throughout current history just not under that particular label.

 

[Timmy]

Americans suffer from PTSD. Who DOESN"T suffer from PTSD? The fighters that come here from other countries, Iraqi and Afghan immigrants don't suffer from PTSD. Gang bangers never get PTSD. They see more combat than some guy who puts in a few months here and there then comes back.

What is it about Americans that they get PTSD.

Americans didn't always get PTSD. During the settlement of this country with attacks by Indians and fighting the French or British, no one got PTSD. Who got PTSD in the Civil War? No one. After pulling a plow all day and fighting off indian attacks at night during the westward expansion no one got PTSD. No wonder men are told to "cowboy up". That's the last time we had any men to speak of. In medieval times when combat was hand to hand and very bloody, no one got PTSD.

I do not believe that PTSD is a real condition. Men have PTSD because they can. It is an affliction of the modern male. If they had to fight their way through life on a daily basis, hunt food, butcher their own animals and worry about gettng bushwhacked, scalped or beaned with a war hammer they wouldn't have time for PTSD.

What a through display of ignorance! You really should learn something about the subject before shooting your mouth off. PTSD has been around throughout current history just not under that particular label.

The old “shell shock”.

I’d say 1/2 if the guys coming back from war zones have issues . The ones I know anyway .

 

[ABikerSailor]

Americans suffer from PTSD. Who DOESN"T suffer from PTSD? The fighters that come here from other countries, Iraqi and Afghan immigrants don't suffer from PTSD. Gang bangers never get PTSD. They see more combat than some guy who puts in a few months here and there then comes back.

What is it about Americans that they get PTSD.

Americans didn't always get PTSD. During the settlement of this country with attacks by Indians and fighting the French or British, no one got PTSD. Who got PTSD in the Civil War? No one. After pulling a plow all day and fighting off indian attacks at night during the westward expansion no one got PTSD. No wonder men are told to "cowboy up". That's the last time we had any men to speak of. In medieval times when combat was hand to hand and very bloody, no one got PTSD.

I do not believe that PTSD is a real condition. Men have PTSD because they can. It is an affliction of the modern male. If they had to fight their way through life on a daily basis, hunt food, butcher their own animals and worry about gettng bushwhacked, scalped or beaned with a war hammer they wouldn't have time for PTSD.

What a through display of ignorance! You really should learn something about the subject before shooting your mouth off. PTSD has been around throughout current history just not under that particular label.

Exactly. When soldiers came back from WWI or WWII, they didn't have PTSD, they had what was called "shell shock" which is basically the same thing.

And yeah, there are vets out there with shell shock who go off the deep end on occasion.

 

[Timmy]

You know, the OP might have some kind of point, but unfortunately, most mass shootings have been done by civilians, not military veterans.

The only mass shooting done by a military person that I'm aware of was the shrink that shot up the base and killed all those soldiers, but I don't think he was on anti depressants. I think he had a serious case of jihad fever.

Hmmm. I think there was a couple more. Wasn’t the Dallas cop shooter one ? And that guy in central Cali ?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the OP might have some kind of point, but unfortunately, most mass shootings have been done by civilians, not military veterans.

The only mass shooting done by a military person that I'm aware of was the shrink that shot up the base and killed all those soldiers, but I don't think he was on anti depressants. I think he had a serious case of jihad fever.

Hmmm. I think there was a couple more. Wasn’t the Dallas cop shooter one ? And that guy in central Cali ?

Dunno..................got a link?

 

[Timmy]

You know, the OP might have some kind of point, but unfortunately, most mass shootings have been done by civilians, not military veterans.

The only mass shooting done by a military person that I'm aware of was the shrink that shot up the base and killed all those soldiers, but I don't think he was on anti depressants. I think he had a serious case of jihad fever.

Hmmm. I think there was a couple more. Wasn’t the Dallas cop shooter one ? And that guy in central Cali ?

Dunno..................got a link?

Found this .

Veterans Commit Mass Shootings At An Alarming Rate. Why?

I think a bigger issue is the everyday “armed barricaded guy after a domestic call “ situation.