Salvation is free and will be enforced.

[yiostheoy]

...I consider God to be responsible for humans. And I am glad he is.

Just because a God creates a Thing and gives that thing Freedom, which that thing then Abuses and does Evil like Murder, Theft, Lies, Enslavement, Torture, Cruelty ... etc. ...

This does not mean you can blame the God.

You can only appreciate how important Freedom is to the God.

And you can only try to understand the God needs and wants those to return to Him who are Good when they are Free.

You yourself have completely failed to comprehend Philosophy or Christianity.

Well that is because I totally disagree with Philosophy and Christianity. In fact I think when Christianity was originally infiltrated with Greek philosophy , and I mean Greco-Roman philosophy and ritual , once that was absorbed , the church has never been the same since. It has NEVER gotten this out of its bloodstream. Paganism is now widespread in Christianity. From 100 AD, through 324 to 600,from the 4th century until now, Christianity absorbed pagan philosophy.

Christians are experts at assimilating magical unbiblical mindsets.

You are clearly well informed about Augustine and Aquinas.

But still you would need a lot more copious background in the Greek New Testament before you can assert an understanding of Christian doctrine.

And there are half a dozen versions of doctrine as well:

- pure New Testament

- Catholic

- Eastern Orthodox

- Protestant

- Quaker

- Mormon

- Jehovah's Witness

- Holly Roller

Take your pick.

I myself prefer to keep it simple, and start with the New Testament alone, and then add Aquinas from a philosophical viewpoint.

Eventually to avoid complete skepticism you would need some Descartes as well. He was a brilliant philosopher and mathematician and also a mercenary soldier too.

Jesus, Aquinas, and Descartes each assert that God The Father (of Christ) will force no one to Heaven. But Hell awaits those who choose it.

Hell is a simple choice that anyone can make.

Heaven must be earned. Again, see Matt Chap 25 as was mentioned before by another.

 

[yiostheoy]

Humanity NEEDS to be forgiven , NEEDS mercy from their God; NEEDS Love and Grace from him; NEEDS his guidance and his longsuffering for this mess we were thrown into;

And we will have it! We don't need tricks and silly religious games. We NEED his help!

If you are/were a really bad person with lots of sins then yes, sure.

But if you are just a simple person all you need to do is follow the outline in Matt Chap 25.

 

[yiostheoy]

There is no choice in the salvation of God , religion has that wrong; salvation is a done deal, its just all of our destiny ,no matter what we believe or not. Its our God determined future , and we have absolutely no choice in the matter. That is really how God is , he gets his way , and he is NOT asking what we want. There are no choices , its God's way period; that is reality as it is , not as it religiously seems to be. Religions just don't know how God really is.

Notice Job 23:13, its talking about how God really is, " But he is in one mind and who can turn him? What his soul desires , that he does!" God does what he wants , not what the human wants. Free will choice is a serious religious delusion. The future IS simply the desires of God, human history is the unfolding of God's will. Well , what does God desire? 1 Tim. 2:3-4," For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires, ( or will have ), ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." Universal salvation is not good and acceptable to Christianity and religion , but God could careless what his followers accept. Or what unbelievers accept. Human destiny is the salvation of God, ALL of us are freely included.

And nothing can stop this.

Anyway there is plenty of choice, as I have tried to point out and document for you with both philosophy and with Matthew's Chapter 25.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat25.pdf

 

[yiostheoy]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

Sounds like Buddhism.

 

[yiostheoy]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

Not injustice, but trial and proof.

I am sure the animals are reborn and transmigrate because they belong to the Earth and are a part of the ecology here. Earth, seas, lakes, rivers, mountains, rain, plants and trees, fruits and grains, animals both herbivore and carnivore.

But mankind is a child of God or of Lucifer. And life is the trial to prove which. God already knows. We ourselves only do not know. It is to prove it to us. That's the purpose of human life.

No test is easy.

 

[yiostheoy]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

That's definitely Buddhist not Christian.

Christ took up his body again from the tomb and returned to his apostles and evangelists and after 40 days ascended back up to his Father God in the Heavens somewhere above the Earth.

 

[yiostheoy]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

Well there is another way that I myself subscribe to , and that is complete forgiveness ; yes , just wipe out everything that humans ever did wrong, and start a whole new existence. That is basically the biblical message ; God determined that Jesus sacrifice his life to give all humans that " Wiping out of sin", the erasing of all our bad habits. And I actually see more sense and value in that, than to have each human pay the penalties of their sin over and over again, even if it takes more than one life time of payment.

Well there we must differ, because I do not think sin can be wiped out. I think actions have consequences and we are accountable for everything we do. Its called cause and effect, and we must clean up our own mess by trying to make things right over many lifetimes. You can imagine that if we are accountable for every action and its reactions then someone like Hitler will have a huge burden of karma to settle, and that would take many lives of service to humanity.

Buddha said, " live harmlessly, and kill nothing" because that is a way of avoiding more karma, and setting ourselves free from rebirth.

Buddha was a smart prince from India. Today he is more popular in China and Indochina though. The Indians have never accepted him as anything but a juvenile delinquent prince.

Buddha realized that all living things die, but he had no idea of where their souls/essences/minds go at death.

So he ran back to momma which was Hinduism. That's where he got rebirth and Karma.

 

[yiostheoy]

I do not want to rub my shoulders with believers who are hell hounds. They handicap salvation in my view.

I walked out of a bible class in the 1960's when I was sixteen, because I discovered most of them believed in eternal hellfire. I felt in my heart that a merciful God would not do such things to humans, just for their failings. This took me to a long study of the occult and to the conclusions I have already spoken of. That we are accountable for every action, but we will all ultimately be redeemed.

Yes He does.

He must.

Hell is a refuge for them.

Living with God and being evil would be a worse Hell.

 

[yiostheoy]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

Jeremiah is practically gleeful when she rants about sinners being punished.

Jeremiah , pillars is thinking of you.

That makes you famous, or infamous.

 

[yiostheoy]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

I disagree with reincarnation , or having to die more than once. I see no injustice in the amount of years one human lives as compared to another , if the destiny of both is to live forever with God. There is no imbalance in eternity. How we live now is basically meaningless ; how long we live , how much we suffer , how rich or poor we are , our levels of knowledge , its all meaningless BECAUSE our destiny is eternal.

This is life , but its not how life is going to be. Our future will pale to insignificance our past.

How many have actually died to their sinful nature? How long does Adam sleep before the Lord awakens Adam "human - red earth"? Just a few things to consider before you make that absolute commitment in your own mind.

Pretty sure Jesus resurrected all the sleeping saints at Jerusalem on the Sunday morning of his own resurrection. So it tells us in the Greek New Testament. See:

: “Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” Matt 27:52.

 

[yiostheoy]

I have noticed that the biggest problem of people understanding Christianity is that they simply don't read enough.

The Internet since 1995 has provided a plethora of resources to read up on everything known to man, including Christianity.

But you need to read, read on, and read carefully.

Here is the Old Testament (Hebrew Tenakh):

Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible

Here is the New Testament:

Online Greek Interlinear Bible

 

[RodISHI]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

I disagree with reincarnation , or having to die more than once. I see no injustice in the amount of years one human lives as compared to another , if the destiny of both is to live forever with God. There is no imbalance in eternity. How we live now is basically meaningless ; how long we live , how much we suffer , how rich or poor we are , our levels of knowledge , its all meaningless BECAUSE our destiny is eternal.

This is life , but its not how life is going to be. Our future will pale to insignificance our past.

How many have actually died to their sinful nature? How long does Adam sleep before the Lord awakens Adam "human - red earth"? Just a few things to consider before you make that absolute commitment in your own mind.

Pretty sure Jesus resurrected all the sleeping saints at Jerusalem on the Sunday morning of his own resurrection. So it tells us in the Greek New Testament. See:

: “Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” Matt 27:52.

That would not be confirmed or coincide with the word and would actually put strict limitations on the promise:


The spirit of Jesus standing before John 'a beloved' as a fellow servant- Revelation 1:18 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 30:10-11
There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother. There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

One could ask themselves who are the ones that have cursed the woman who is 'life- that internal host taken from humans own riyb which shows where breath is' given to Adam 'human-red earth'? Are not all that are human an Adam?

The Lord did not say it would be done in a day as the land would be barren. For each is given a measure of faith but not all are awaken at the same time nor have all committed themselves to finding truth as many still try to live in Eden 'pleasure' and have not died or given effort to die to their own flesh desires. This is what Paul was talking about when he said I die daily. Each morning with a spirit of Paul one who is dedicated (has Enoch as a leading host) awakes and tells them self today I will try to live as the Lord intended and follow his lead. The Word and the Lord's kingdom does not end. There are seasons that end and there will also be those in the world struggling in their own subjection and poverty of spirit. The quest is to solve the mystery planted within and this is why each has to examine themselves to find themselves approved and All will seek for that truth in the time appointed for them.

 

[RodISHI]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

Well there is another way that I myself subscribe to , and that is complete forgiveness ; yes , just wipe out everything that humans ever did wrong, and start a whole new existence. That is basically the biblical message ; God determined that Jesus sacrifice his life to give all humans that " Wiping out of sin", the erasing of all our bad habits. And I actually see more sense and value in that, than to have each human pay the penalties of their sin over and over again, even if it takes more than one life time of payment.

Well there we must differ, because I do not think sin can be wiped out. I think actions have consequences and we are accountable for everything we do. Its called cause and effect, and we must clean up our own mess by trying to make things right over many lifetimes. You can imagine that if we are accountable for every action and its reactions then someone like Hitler will have a huge burden of karma to settle, and that would take many lives of service to humanity.

Buddha said, " live harmlessly, and kill nothing" because that is a way of avoiding more karma, and setting ourselves free from rebirth.

Buddha was a smart prince from India. Today he is more popular in China and Indochina though. The Indians have never accepted him as anything but a juvenile delinquent prince.

Buddha realized that all living things die, but he had no idea of where their souls/essences/minds go at death.

So he ran back to momma which was Hinduism. That's where he got rebirth and Karma.

Buddha did that extreme self examination before it was popular. The Lord's people were scatter throughout the earth and history clearly shows if one looks that pieces and portions were kept in varying religions throughout. The native Indians simply called the spirit they witnessed as the Great White Spirit. What kind of human thinks that they have rights to rule over that spirit that was put into the rest of humankind when it was established in the womb by Jehovah? What is that spiritual host called?

 

[Mickiel]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

 

[RodISHI]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

 

[Mickiel]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

There is now no more condemnation Christian, you can stop licking your chops , no humans will roast in your hell. But let me give you 9 reasons why God will not allow the Christian will to be done , 9 real reasons why your hell is retarded ; they are listed in Galatians 5:22-23 , they are the personal ways and means of God;

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
9 reasons why God has saved the whole world. You Christians are just really unbelievers of this astounding grace from this incredible being!

 

[RodISHI]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

There is now no more condemnation Christian, you can stop licking your chops , no humans will roast in your hell. But let me give you 9 reasons why God will not allow the Christian will to be done , 9 real reasons why your hell is retarded ; they are listed in Galatians 5:22-23 , they are the personal ways and means of God;

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
9 reasons why God has saved the whole world. You Christians are just really unbelievers of this astounding grace from this incredible being!

Hell is that place in the spirit where humans turn away from God. You seem to have your own personal version of that. The enemy of God brings forth destruction and that is Hell in the flesh because of carnally minded psychopaths that have no clue that may be where they live in the next step of their walk as a carnal human.

 

[Mickiel]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

There is now no more condemnation Christian, you can stop licking your chops , no humans will roast in your hell. But let me give you 9 reasons why God will not allow the Christian will to be done , 9 real reasons why your hell is retarded ; they are listed in Galatians 5:22-23 , they are the personal ways and means of God;

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
9 reasons why God has saved the whole world. You Christians are just really unbelievers of this astounding grace from this incredible being!

Hell is that place in the spirit where humans turn away from God. You seem to have your own personal version of that. The enemy of God brings forth destruction and that is Hell in the flesh because of carnally minded psychopaths that have no clue that may be where they live in the next step of their walk as a carnal human.

God sent his Son here for those lost minded psychopaths , to get them away from condemning minded people like you who will not see them totally forgiven.

 

[RodISHI]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

There is now no more condemnation Christian, you can stop licking your chops , no humans will roast in your hell. But let me give you 9 reasons why God will not allow the Christian will to be done , 9 real reasons why your hell is retarded ; they are listed in Galatians 5:22-23 , they are the personal ways and means of God;

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
9 reasons why God has saved the whole world. You Christians are just really unbelievers of this astounding grace from this incredible being!

Hell is that place in the spirit where humans turn away from God. You seem to have your own personal version of that. The enemy of God brings forth destruction and that is Hell in the flesh because of carnally minded psychopaths that have no clue that may be where they live in the next step of their walk as a carnal human.

God sent his Son here for those lost minded psychopaths , to get them away from condemning minded people like you who will not see them totally forgiven.

Those who do not believe on that Word still live in condemnation and those who are still living to the carnal flesh live in the misery of it. They can easily subject themselves into the hell of this world even if their souls are saved when they have a leader of error leading them into a ditch.

 

[Mickiel]

Nothing puts dirt on the truth like a Christian. Their view of things is all screwed up. If the kingdom of God is anything like Christians , then its corrupt already. They are hell headhunters , and I know God is not like that. Galatians 5:22-23 perfectly describes how God is , and Christians are not.

Those who choose to deny the truth brought by the first born of God are already condemned.

There is now no more condemnation Christian, you can stop licking your chops , no humans will roast in your hell. But let me give you 9 reasons why God will not allow the Christian will to be done , 9 real reasons why your hell is retarded ; they are listed in Galatians 5:22-23 , they are the personal ways and means of God;

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
9 reasons why God has saved the whole world. You Christians are just really unbelievers of this astounding grace from this incredible being!

Hell is that place in the spirit where humans turn away from God. You seem to have your own personal version of that. The enemy of God brings forth destruction and that is Hell in the flesh because of carnally minded psychopaths that have no clue that may be where they live in the next step of their walk as a carnal human.

God sent his Son here for those lost minded psychopaths , to get them away from condemning minded people like you who will not see them totally forgiven.

Those who do not believe on that Word still live in condemnation and those who are still living to the carnal flesh live in the misery of it. They can easily subject themselves into the hell of this world even if their souls are saved when they have a leader of error leading them into a ditch.

You say unbelievers are condemned , because that is your will and heart , that is what YOU would do to all of them; I thank God you and believers like you really have absolutely nothing to do with the salvation of unbelievers; YOU condemn them, Jesus in John 12:47 said he came here to save those unbelievers that believers are writing off. Jesus is a WORLD Savior , he came here to save a world, you Christians just don't believe in that, so you stand in the way of the salvation of unbelievers. Stumbling blocks , wells without the water of the salvation of all. Hell minded modern day Pharisees who are killing the true message of the gospel.