Salvation is free and will be enforced.

[Mickiel]

There is no choice in the salvation of God , religion has that wrong; salvation is a done deal, its just all of our destiny ,no matter what we believe or not. Its our God determined future , and we have absolutely no choice in the matter. That is really how God is , he gets his way , and he is NOT asking what we want. There are no choices , its God's way period; that is reality as it is , not as it religiously seems to be. Religions just don't know how God really is.

Notice Job 23:13, its talking about how God really is, " But he is in one mind and who can turn him? What his soul desires , that he does!" God does what he wants , not what the human wants. Free will choice is a serious religious delusion. The future IS simply the desires of God, human history is the unfolding of God's will. Well , what does God desire? 1 Tim. 2:3-4," For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires, ( or will have ), ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." Universal salvation is not good and acceptable to Christianity and religion , but God could careless what his followers accept. Or what unbelievers accept. Human destiny is the salvation of God, ALL of us are freely included.

And nothing can stop this.

 

[Mickiel]

In John 12: 32 Jesus gives an interesting profound prophecy," If I be lifted up from the earth, I will " Draw" ALL men to me!" A powerful prophecy, what it means is that if they killed him, he would force all of humanity to come to him. Now they did kill him, but NEVER in history since has all of humanity ever been forced to come to him ; so that is yet to come ; but it will happen. The term " Draw" here is taken from the Greek " Helkou" , which means " To Drag!" He is going to drag ALL of humanity to him, or force them. The very opposite of what religion is teaching; they think God does not force anyone; they are seriously wrong!

God does not ask humans to do things that they choose to do; he tells them what to do. That is how it is in heaven; heaven is not a democracy.

 

[Mickiel]

Salvation is free but it will be enforced by God! In other words , we all will be with God, what we believe or do in life cannot change this destiny. Eternal life with God is freely given to both Theist and Atheist, and will be forced on both groups. And God does not care what we have to say about this. In Isaiah 40:17 " All nations before him are as nothing; they are counted by him as less than nothing and meaningless." This is what God really thinks about how we think of our future with him; God already knows we all will be with him, he could care less what religions think, or what Atheist thinks.

In Isaiah 45:23 God makes a Holy Vow; " I have sworn by myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shall not return to me empty; that to me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess to me!" This cannot be stopped, its a vow made by God himself, how religion understands this is meaningless. This IS human destiny in a nutshell; its preconceived destiny!

 

[Dajjal]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

 

[Mickiel]

The true pathology of God is simply not taught ; God is absolute and absolutely rules reality! Our future with him is NOT based on our choices , God is not stupid ; the future is far too important to leave in the hands of man , we are too ignorant. Isaiah 46:10,"My counsel shall stand , I will DO ALL my pleasure!" God is doing everything he wants to do. All of our lives are his pleasure.

 

[Mickiel]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

 

[Dajjal]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

 

[Mickiel]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

I disagree with reincarnation , or having to die more than once. I see no injustice in the amount of years one human lives as compared to another , if the destiny of both is to live forever with God. There is no imbalance in eternity. How we live now is basically meaningless ; how long we live , how much we suffer , how rich or poor we are , our levels of knowledge , its all meaningless BECAUSE our destiny is eternal.

This is life , but its not how life is going to be. Our future will pale to insignificance our past.

 

[Dajjal]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

I disagree with reincarnation , or having to die more than once. I see no injustice in the amount of years one human lives as compared to another , if the destiny of both is to live forever with God. There is no imbalance in eternity. How we live now is basically meaningless ; how long we live , how much we suffer , how rich or poor we are , our levels of knowledge , its all meaningless BECAUSE our destiny is eternal.

This is life , but its not how life is going to be. Our future will pale to insignificance our past.

What of people who have done terrible things, like serial killers. Will you want to rub shoulders with them for eternity? Would it not make more sense that they suffer bad karma in future incarnations, not only as punishment, but to teach them empathy for others.

 

[Mickiel]

In occult theology we are all a part of God that has been sent out from the Godhead on a long journey of countless incarnations during which we spiritually evolve back toward unity with God. No one is lost or damned, all souls are ultimately redeemed.

I believe some of that , I think our future is to live in unity with God. All of us, not just some of us. I do not believe in " Countless incarnations", I think we live only once in this life; I agree that no one is lost and that ALL souls are ultimately redeemed - I certainly believe that!

To only live once as a human, then live on as an eternal spirit would be a system with injustice built into it. Some people would have long lives filled with experiences and some would die as baby's. They would never be equal and the baby that died would be an untried and untested innocent. They would envy the people who had full lives and never be able to equal them. Reincarnation over many lives until reaching enlightenment makes more sense.

Besides reincarnation is what the spirit world teaches. I have heard the same doctrine from many different spiritualist mediums

I disagree with reincarnation , or having to die more than once. I see no injustice in the amount of years one human lives as compared to another , if the destiny of both is to live forever with God. There is no imbalance in eternity. How we live now is basically meaningless ; how long we live , how much we suffer , how rich or poor we are , our levels of knowledge , its all meaningless BECAUSE our destiny is eternal.

This is life , but its not how life is going to be. Our future will pale to insignificance our past.

What of people who have done terrible things, like serial killers. Will you want to rub shoulders with them for eternity? Would it not make more sense that they suffer bad karma in future incarnations, not only as punishment, but to teach them empathy for others.

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

 

[Dajjal]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

 

[Mickiel]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

Well there is another way that I myself subscribe to , and that is complete forgiveness ; yes , just wipe out everything that humans ever did wrong, and start a whole new existence. That is basically the biblical message ; God determined that Jesus sacrifice his life to give all humans that " Wiping out of sin", the erasing of all our bad habits. And I actually see more sense and value in that, than to have each human pay the penalties of their sin over and over again, even if it takes more than one life time of payment.

 

[Dajjal]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

Well there is another way that I myself subscribe to , and that is complete forgiveness ; yes , just wipe out everything that humans ever did wrong, and start a whole new existence. That is basically the biblical message ; God determined that Jesus sacrifice his life to give all humans that " Wiping out of sin", the erasing of all our bad habits. And I actually see more sense and value in that, than to have each human pay the penalties of their sin over and over again, even if it takes more than one life time of payment.

Well there we must differ, because I do not think sin can be wiped out. I think actions have consequences and we are accountable for everything we do. Its called cause and effect, and we must clean up our own mess by trying to make things right over many lifetimes. You can imagine that if we are accountable for every action and its reactions then someone like Hitler will have a huge burden of karma to settle, and that would take many lives of service to humanity.

Buddha said, " live harmlessly, and kill nothing" because that is a way of avoiding more karma, and setting ourselves free from rebirth.

 

[Mickiel]

Well the biblical picture of that future is what I accept, in that future all humans will be changed before we begin that eternity; the human nature will be changed and our bodies removed and we will exist in entirely new forms; so you will not be rubbing shoulders with serial killers , but with completely changed individuals .I think one life of suffering is enough.

I too believe that when we die we leave the physical body behind, and inhabit a spiritual body of energy. The occult teaches we have several higher bodies, the astral, the mental, and the causal body. But I do not think we can just wipe out bad actions we may have committed during our last earthy life. Everything has to be accounted for to the last detail, and that could be achieved only over many lifetimes.

Well there is another way that I myself subscribe to , and that is complete forgiveness ; yes , just wipe out everything that humans ever did wrong, and start a whole new existence. That is basically the biblical message ; God determined that Jesus sacrifice his life to give all humans that " Wiping out of sin", the erasing of all our bad habits. And I actually see more sense and value in that, than to have each human pay the penalties of their sin over and over again, even if it takes more than one life time of payment.

Well there we must differ, because I do not think sin can be wiped out. I think actions have consequences and we are accountable for everything we do. Its called cause and effect, and we must clean up our own mess by trying to make things right over many lifetimes. You can imagine that if we are accountable for every action and its reactions then someone like Hitler will have a huge burden of karma to settle, and that would take many lives of service to humanity.

Buddha said, " live harmlessly, and kill nothing" because that is a way of avoiding more karma, and setting ourselves free from rebirth.

Well I understand , I don't think a human could wipe out sin , but I believe a God can. I hold God responsible for his creations ; I consider God to be responsible for humans. And I am glad he is.

 

[Compost]

Matthew 25:
31When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.

34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and cloth You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Mickiel]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

 

[Compost]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

I disagree. The average Christian is not a sadist or into schadenfreude. The average Christian understands that free will comes with a cost. We will be judged on the choices we make in this life.

 

[Mickiel]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

I disagree. The average Christian is not a sadist or into schadenfreude. The average Christian understands that free will comes with a cost. We will be judged on the choices we make in this life.

I disagree , 90 % of the Christian conversation is how to condemn others who are not as " Righteous" as they are. Your always thinking of ways to limit the Kingdom of God and how to shut sinners off from that Kingdom. Like a lust. Jesus in Matt. 23:13," Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, for you shut up the Kingdom from men."

Always judging; always condemning ; always placing a cost on freedom.

 

[Compost]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

I disagree. The average Christian is not a sadist or into schadenfreude. The average Christian understands that free will comes with a cost. We will be judged on the choices we make in this life.

I disagree , 90 % of the Christian conversation is how to condemn others who are not as " Righteous" as they are. Your always thinking of ways to limit the Kingdom of God and how to shut sinners off from that Kingdom. Like a lust. Jesus in Matt. 23:13," Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, for you shut up the Kingdom from men."

Always judging; always condemning ; always placing a cost on freedom.

Wow. 90%. Are these the folks you chat with over coffee and donuts after church service?

 

[Mickiel]

I tell you , the average Christian just can't get punishment out of their heads and belief; they NEED to see other human sinners punished. They need it , want it , can't believe without it; and I think that is a pitiful condition for one's belief to be in.

I disagree. The average Christian is not a sadist or into schadenfreude. The average Christian understands that free will comes with a cost. We will be judged on the choices we make in this life.

I disagree , 90 % of the Christian conversation is how to condemn others who are not as " Righteous" as they are. Your always thinking of ways to limit the Kingdom of God and how to shut sinners off from that Kingdom. Like a lust. Jesus in Matt. 23:13," Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, for you shut up the Kingdom from men."

Always judging; always condemning ; always placing a cost on freedom.

Wow. 90%. Are these the folks you chat with over coffee and donuts after church service?

I don't go to Christian churches , because I highly dislike their view of God and Christ. I disagree with their limited Atonement mentality , and I do not want to rub my shoulders with believers who are hell hounds. They handicap salvation in my view.