Rittenhouse ordered to stand trial

[freyasman]

No it isn’t.

It is why prisoners who kill other prisoners are charged with murder. Self defense goes out the window.

They're not always.

It depends entirely on the circumstances.

 

[SavannahMann]

Who was running like hell away from the conflict?

Answer that right now, or fuck off.

Ok. And why don’t we view the people in pursuit as trying to effect a citizens arrest of a murder they just saw committed?

 

[SavannahMann]

They're not always.

It depends entirely on the circumstances.

Not according to the Federal Courts.

No Right To Self-Defense in Prison

John Rowe is an Indiana state prisoner. A prisoner named Michael Evans was moved into a cell next to Rowe and Rowe complained to staff, who did nothing. Evans sent Rowe a note demanding sexual favors. The next morning E...

preprison.com

The Federal Courts upheld the policy as constitutional that Inmates have no right to self defense.

 

[freyasman]

Ok. And why don’t we view the people in pursuit as trying to effect a citizens arrest of a murder they just saw committed?

What murder?

 

[freyasman]

Not according to the Federal Courts.

No Right To Self-Defense in Prison

John Rowe is an Indiana state prisoner. A prisoner named Michael Evans was moved into a cell next to Rowe and Rowe complained to staff, who did nothing. Evans sent Rowe a note demanding sexual favors. The next morning E...

preprison.com

The Federal Courts upheld the policy as constitutional that Inmates have no right to self defense.

From the link;
"Judge Ripple filed a dissent noting that this is the first court ruling to ever hold that the state may, "consistent with the due process clause, impose, as a matter of absolute liability, a sanction for protecting oneself from death or bodily harm." "But to forbid all resistance to all threats to life and bodily integrity is not to ensure a lack of violence, as the majority suggests, but to leave the weak and vulnerable the easy prey of the strong and the vicious. It is indeed a novel proposition of constitutional law to hold that a state, having deprived a person of liberty according to law, can further punish that individual for attempting to stay alive, even when the state itself is not ready, willing, or capable of assuming that responsibility by substituting its own strong arm for that of the prisoner-victim."

 

[freyasman]

Not according to the Federal Courts.

No Right To Self-Defense in Prison

John Rowe is an Indiana state prisoner. A prisoner named Michael Evans was moved into a cell next to Rowe and Rowe complained to staff, who did nothing. Evans sent Rowe a note demanding sexual favors. The next morning E...

preprison.com

The Federal Courts upheld the policy as constitutional that Inmates have no right to self defense.

One court, not "the courts"....... one, who clearly got it wrong.

 

[SavannahMann]

Be careful what you wish for, because if the system gets that corrupted, then we'll simply stop using it or deferring to it. We'll just ignore it entirely and do things the way we see fit.

And then what are you going to do?

That is the system we have.

Doctors are prohibited from practicing medicine in states they are not licensed in. So are Nurses and Paramedics.

Police authority ends at the State Line. Unless special authority is granted the cops power to arrest is nonexistent.

The same is true of Lawyers. A lawyer in Texas is not permitted to practice law in Arkansas unless he is granted permission from the court or admitted to the BAR in Arkansas.

This is the world we live in. It has been this way for a very long time.

Let’s say that the shooting never happened. Let’s say that someone heard Kyle say he was a paramedic. They come to him with a life threatening wound. He fumbles around and the patient does because Kyle isn’t a Paramedic and has no clue what he is doing. At the least he can expect to be charged. Practicing medicine without a license. Misrepresenting his skills and qualifications would certainly put him on that path.

Because doing the wrong thing will guarantee the patient dies.

Let’s say that someone is brought to Kyle with a gunshot wound to the chest. Kyle whips out a pressure dressing. He just killed that patient. The patient suffocates because he can’t breathe. He would have been better off without Kyles help.

And Kyle would not be protected by Good Samaritan laws. Because he represented himself as a Paramedic.

 

[SavannahMann]

One court, not "the courts"....... one, who clearly got it wrong.

Ok. Find the decision that overturned it. Because as of now that is the law of the land.

 

[Faun]

Sure. He was just running along, behind the violent ex con who WAS chasing Rittenhouse.


How many people were along side him, or right behind him? Where exactly at this time where the other two guys that Rittenhouse had to shot as they attacked him? Peacefully taking a nap further down the road until they heard shots?


I don't think so.


You use these words, like you are just plopping them into slots in a sentence diagram, with no real understanding of their actual meanings.

Only one person was chasing Rittenhouse at that point. Your desperation to add others is noted.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Do you believe that Rittenhouse was justified in protecting himself?

I believe he was committing crimes and was not supposed to be there and was looking for trouble. So he wasnt legally justified in shooting those people.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

He did not have permission to be on the property he was “defending”. That is trespassing

Correct, because the police had told everyone to leave.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Who was running like hell away from the conflict?

Who ran headfirst into conflict by crossing state lines and trespassing with an illegal weapon to seek out the protestors?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What murder?

Stop being cutesy and discuss this like a big kid.

 

[freyasman]

That is the system we have.

Doctors are prohibited from practicing medicine in states they are not licensed in. So are Nurses and Paramedics.

Police authority ends at the State Line. Unless special authority is granted the cops power to arrest is nonexistent.

The same is true of Lawyers. A lawyer in Texas is not permitted to practice law in Arkansas unless he is granted permission from the court or admitted to the BAR in Arkansas.

This is the world we live in. It has been this way for a very long time.

Let’s say that the shooting never happened. Let’s say that someone heard Kyle say he was a paramedic. They come to him with a life threatening wound. He fumbles around and the patient does because Kyle isn’t a Paramedic and has no clue what he is doing. At the least he can expect to be charged. Practicing medicine without a license. Misrepresenting his skills and qualifications would certainly put him on that path.

Because doing the wrong thing will guarantee the patient dies.

Let’s say that someone is brought to Kyle with a gunshot wound to the chest. Kyle whips out a pressure dressing. He just killed that patient. The patient suffocates because he can’t breathe. He would have been better off without Kyles help.

And Kyle would not be protected by Good Samaritan laws. Because he represented himself as a Paramedic.

The system only exists as long as we see it as legitimate.

When that ends, so does the system.

 

[freyasman]

Ok. Find the decision that overturned it. Because as of now that is the law of the land.

No need.

It's bad law.

 

[freyasman]

Who ran headfirst into conflict by crossing state lines and trespassing with an illegal weapon to seek out the protestors?

Too much of a stretch there.

 

[freyasman]

Stop being cutesy and discuss this like a big kid.

I saw a couple killings, I didn't see any murders.

Learn the difference.

 

[SavannahMann]

Too much of a stretch there.

But that is what happened. Kyle crossed state lines. He got his hands on a weapon he knew he was not permitted by law to have. He went into an area he knew he wasn’t supposed to be in. Is any of that not true?

 

[SavannahMann]

The system only exists as long as we see it as legitimate.

When that ends, so does the system.

Ok. I’m willing to consider it. However you are going to need a better poster child for the law needing changed than you have in Kyle Rittenhouse.

In Georgia Republicans were debating a change to the Aggravated Assault law. They wanted a change to allow a citizen holding a suspect to hold them at gunpoint. A situation prohibited by law at the time.

Then the McMichaels. The laws were changed. Aggravated Assault remained the same. Now no citizen can exercise any arrest or detainment power. We lost it.

Now you have to be a private investigator or security guard to enact a citizens arrest in Georgia.

Kyle was and is no hero. He wasn’t acting like a good citizen. Like the McMichaels he was acting like a vigilante. And laws do change because of them. But never for the better. Ask Bernie Goetz.

 

[M14 Shooter]

But that is what happened. Kyle crossed state lines.

Irrelevant to his claim of self-defense.

He got his hands on a weapon he knew he was not permitted by law to have.

Even if true, it is irrelevant to his claim of self-defense.

He went into an area he knew he wasn’t supposed to be in. Is any of that not true?

Even if true, it is irrelevant to his claim of self-defense.