Republicans to target unions, expand school choice in states

[JoeB131]

Public schools are under no obligation to keep trouble students. They can be suspended and expelled for getting too out of hand.

So what's with this hang-up of having a choice of what students they can take? I don't understand what that has to do with the discussion.

well, it kind of has everything to do with this discussion. You guys point out that charter schools get better results (they don't) because they don't have those dastardly unions keeping the bad teachers.

But ignore the fact that they can get rid of any kid who is just too much trouble to be bothered with and fob him off on the public schools.

so they cherry pick their students and get better results 25% of the time, worse results 25% of the time, and about the same, 25% of the time.

Not exactly a solution, really.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Or we can just fix the schools we have... that works, too.


The only way to do that is outlaw public unions.

Put down the bottle, buddy. It's too early to be drinking.

What else is new meth head Joe ignore the obvious.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When unions strike in a private company, the company owners sit down with the unions and each side is represented. How many taxpayers can sit at the table and debate with the public unions whether they are deserving of more money or benefits? They sit down with politicians who get their paycheck from the same place union workers do--the taxpayers.

And the politicians know they are constrained by tax revenues and budgets... so that argument doesn't fly.

the reality is, when the teachers strike, they rarely get more than half of what they went in asking for.

The real problem is, the politicians don't live up to their agreements when they make them.

Right, politicians care so much about our money that they watch every dime, don't they?

Those negotiations should be on the comedy channel. When the government passes a budget, they just pass it with X amount needed for government work, and that's it. That's why you can retire at the age of 55 if you're with the government long enough while the rest of us will have to work until near death.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have no issues with unions. If you want to get a union job, thats fine. Collective bargaining in private sector unions is also fine.

I find it amusing that those that claim they care about unions, don't belong to a union and wouldn't belong to one.

I would love to belong to a union and get union health care and union wages...

But that's not the point, Dummy. The fact is, Unions benefit those who don't belong to them by keeping the standards higher. Union membership never exceeded 33% of workers, but when it was at that high point, we enjoyed the greatest prosperity for the working class in our history.

Charter schools give people choice, you want a union and no choice. Even if the charters produce the same results are good. People need to have choose.

The problem is that the Charter Schools choose their kids. They aren't taking the special needs or disciplinary problem kids, they are taking the kids that beef up their stats. And even with that, they do only as well as the Public schools.

Now, I'd have no problem with Charter Schools if Trump and the Koch Brothers and all the other rich assholes riding their dressage ponies put together a fund to finance them. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that these SCAMS are tapping into funds meant for public education and depleting it. so the Special Needs kids and the disciplinary problem kids still end up in the school with the leaky roof and the outdated textbooks.

That said, I'd have no problem changing some Union Rules that would make it easier to fire inept teachers. The real problem is, of course, that 50% of new teachers quit within 5 years. We don't have enough teachers to go around now.

That would be a problem if those kids wanted to stay in school... But we all know the drop out rate is sky high.


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[Ray From Cleveland]

Public schools are under no obligation to keep trouble students. They can be suspended and expelled for getting too out of hand.

So what's with this hang-up of having a choice of what students they can take? I don't understand what that has to do with the discussion.

well, it kind of has everything to do with this discussion. You guys point out that charter schools get better results (they don't) because they don't have those dastardly unions keeping the bad teachers.

But ignore the fact that they can get rid of any kid who is just too much trouble to be bothered with and fob him off on the public schools.

so they cherry pick their students and get better results 25% of the time, worse results 25% of the time, and about the same, 25% of the time.

Not exactly a solution, really.

So it's all about what looks better for you instead of what's better for the kids? You really are a liberal.

 

[Papageorgio]

I have no issues with unions. If you want to get a union job, thats fine. Collective bargaining in private sector unions is also fine.

I find it amusing that those that claim they care about unions, don't belong to a union and wouldn't belong to one.

I would love to belong to a union and get union health care and union wages...

But that's not the point, Dummy. The fact is, Unions benefit those who don't belong to them by keeping the standards higher. Union membership never exceeded 33% of workers, but when it was at that high point, we enjoyed the greatest prosperity for the working class in our history.

Charter schools give people choice, you want a union and no choice. Even if the charters produce the same results are good. People need to have choose.

The problem is that the Charter Schools choose their kids. They aren't taking the special needs or disciplinary problem kids, they are taking the kids that beef up their stats. And even with that, they do only as well as the Public schools.

Now, I'd have no problem with Charter Schools if Trump and the Koch Brothers and all the other rich assholes riding their dressage ponies put together a fund to finance them. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that these SCAMS are tapping into funds meant for public education and depleting it. so the Special Needs kids and the disciplinary problem kids still end up in the school with the leaky roof and the outdated textbooks.

That said, I'd have no problem changing some Union Rules that would make it easier to fire inept teachers. The real problem is, of course, that 50% of new teachers quit within 5 years. We don't have enough teachers to go around now.

Sure you would love to join a union, then go find one and join. Better yet as popular as you claim to be with your fellow employees, you can form a union. Hell, people seem to flock to you. No reason you can't form one.

I all ready address the pick and choose portion of the charter schools earlier in this thread.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have no issues with unions. If you want to get a union job, thats fine. Collective bargaining in private sector unions is also fine.

I find it amusing that those that claim they care about unions, don't belong to a union and wouldn't belong to one.

I would love to belong to a union and get union health care and union wages...

But that's not the point, Dummy. The fact is, Unions benefit those who don't belong to them by keeping the standards higher. Union membership never exceeded 33% of workers, but when it was at that high point, we enjoyed the greatest prosperity for the working class in our history.

Charter schools give people choice, you want a union and no choice. Even if the charters produce the same results are good. People need to have choose.

The problem is that the Charter Schools choose their kids. They aren't taking the special needs or disciplinary problem kids, they are taking the kids that beef up their stats. And even with that, they do only as well as the Public schools.

Now, I'd have no problem with Charter Schools if Trump and the Koch Brothers and all the other rich assholes riding their dressage ponies put together a fund to finance them. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that these SCAMS are tapping into funds meant for public education and depleting it. so the Special Needs kids and the disciplinary problem kids still end up in the school with the leaky roof and the outdated textbooks.

That said, I'd have no problem changing some Union Rules that would make it easier to fire inept teachers. The real problem is, of course, that 50% of new teachers quit within 5 years. We don't have enough teachers to go around now.

Unions even have standards Joe, as lazy as they are, no union in their right mind would hire a super slug,, whiny little ***** like you.


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[Ray From Cleveland]

It sure didn't for the left. They lost the White House, Congress, the Senate and most of the Governorships across the country. Partisan politics didn't do so well for them the last eight years.

Don't worry, in two years, most of those things will be back in the hands of the Democrats.
You see, we've seen this before. In 2006, in 1994, in 1982, in 1974... when one party gets control, people realize what a mistake that was and shifts over to the other party.

So you have two years to do a lot of damage. Make the most of it.

You liberals don't have a very good batting average when it comes to predictions. I wouldn't run off to Vegas to make that bet if I were you.

 

[JoeB131]

Right, politicians care so much about our money that they watch every dime, don't they?

Those negotiations should be on the comedy channel. When the government passes a budget, they just pass it with X amount needed for government work, and that's it. That's why you can retire at the age of 55 if you're with the government long enough while the rest of us will have to work until near death.

so you are upset they got a better deal than you did? It seems to me that's on you, isn't it?

You are the one who hates unions sooooo much, but if you belonged to one, you'd probably have decent health care and would be able to retire at a reasonable age.

 

[JoeB131]

You liberals don't have a very good batting average when it comes to predictions. I wouldn't run off to Vegas to make that bet if I were you.

I guess, it's hard to predict when the Russians hack your election, so you might have something there.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You liberals don't have a very good batting average when it comes to predictions. I wouldn't run off to Vegas to make that bet if I were you.

I guess, it's hard to predict when the Russians hack your election, so you might have something there.

They didn't hack anything and even if they did, no proof whatsoever that emails had any impact on the elections. The woman ran with more baggage than any other contender in US history. Her emails were just a pice of the puzzle, not the puzzle itself.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right, politicians care so much about our money that they watch every dime, don't they?

Those negotiations should be on the comedy channel. When the government passes a budget, they just pass it with X amount needed for government work, and that's it. That's why you can retire at the age of 55 if you're with the government long enough while the rest of us will have to work until near death.

so you are upset they got a better deal than you did? It seems to me that's on you, isn't it?

You are the one who hates unions sooooo much, but if you belonged to one, you'd probably have decent health care and would be able to retire at a reasonable age.

Or like many businesses, had to close or move out of the country.

Yeah, when it's my tax money, I do *****. I go out and work for it so I have the right to *****. That's why I will always be against public unions and vote for candidates that are as well.

 

[JoeB131]

They didn't hack anything and even if they did, no proof whatsoever that emails had any impact on the elections. The woman ran with more baggage than any other contender in US history. Her emails were just a pice of the puzzle, not the puzzle itself.

Again, we don't know how far the Russian hacking went... but we know it happened.

My question is, why are you so keen on wanting Russia's candidate in the White House.

Benedict Donald, the Siberian Candidate.

 

[JoeB131]

Or like many businesses, had to close or move out of the country.

Yeah, when it's my tax money, I do *****. I go out and work for it so I have the right to *****. That's why I will always be against public unions and vote for candidates that are as well.

right. So big corporations cheat you out of a fair wage, and you want to screw the guys who kept a fair wage.

So if an arsonist burned down your house would you want them to burn down your neighbor's house as well?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or like many businesses, had to close or move out of the country.

Yeah, when it's my tax money, I do *****. I go out and work for it so I have the right to *****. That's why I will always be against public unions and vote for candidates that are as well.

right. So big corporations cheat you out of a fair wage, and you want to screw the guys who kept a fair wage.

So if an arsonist burned down your house would you want them to burn down your neighbor's house as well?

That fair wage thing again......yet liberals can never tell us what that fair wage is exactly.

How about if public sector workers work for the same kind of money and benefits that the private market pays? I think that would be what a fair wage is.

 

[JoeB131]

That fair wage thing again......yet liberals can never tell us what that fair wage is exactly.

How about if public sector workers work for the same kind of money and benefits that the private market pays? I think that would be what a fair wage is.

we've already said that. $15.00 an hour. done.

So I keep having a hard time understanding this. By your own admission, you are going to have to be driving trucks until you are old (hint, you'll probably be replaced by a driverless truck before then) and you can't get decent insurance benefits out of your work. And you blame Unions for this because their workers can retire at a reasonable age and get really good health benefits?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They didn't hack anything and even if they did, no proof whatsoever that emails had any impact on the elections. The woman ran with more baggage than any other contender in US history. Her emails were just a pice of the puzzle, not the puzzle itself.

Again, we don't know how far the Russian hacking went... but we know it happened.

My question is, why are you so keen on wanting Russia's candidate in the White House.

Benedict Donald, the Siberian Candidate.

Oh please, don't give me that. The last three Democrat contenders were backed by the US Communist Party and you people didn't even blink an eye when you went to vote for them.

I'm glad that most Americans see right through this BS story you on the left make up about Trump and Putin being buddies. Yeah, we don't know how far Russian hacking went which is why you on the left had a recount in three states that showed there was no hacking at all. That's why they ran after the email thing.

 

[Papageorgio]

They didn't hack anything and even if they did, no proof whatsoever that emails had any impact on the elections. The woman ran with more baggage than any other contender in US history. Her emails were just a pice of the puzzle, not the puzzle itself.

Again, we don't know how far the Russian hacking went... but we know it happened.

My question is, why are you so keen on wanting Russia's candidate in the White House.

Benedict Donald, the Siberian Candidate.

I doubt very seriously if any of the actual votes cast on election were hacked, but the hacking into the emails is quite disconcerting to say the least. Clinton and the DNC were wrong in conspiring to make Clinton the nominee and CNN feeding her questions was wrong, however, Russians hacking the emails is far worse.

What goes around comes around and I wish both sides would realize that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That fair wage thing again......yet liberals can never tell us what that fair wage is exactly.

How about if public sector workers work for the same kind of money and benefits that the private market pays? I think that would be what a fair wage is.

we've already said that. $15.00 an hour. done.

So I keep having a hard time understanding this. By your own admission, you are going to have to be driving trucks until you are old (hint, you'll probably be replaced by a driverless truck before then) and you can't get decent insurance benefits out of your work. And you blame Unions for this because their workers can retire at a reasonable age and get really good health benefits?

Yes, because I'm the one that will be paying for that early retirement and health benefits. When I'm working and paying other people who are not, you bet I have something to say about it. It's a better reason than any to get rid of the public unions.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh please, don't give me that. The last three Democrat contenders were backed by the US Communist Party and you people didn't even blink an eye when you went to vote for them.

Probably because the US Communist Party is kind of like the Prohibition Party. We still have one of those?

I'm glad that most Americans see right through this BS story you on the left make up about Trump and Putin being buddies. Yeah, we don't know how far Russian hacking went which is why you on the left had a recount in three states that showed there was no hacking at all. That's why they ran after the email thing.

We don't know if there was hacking or not in the vote totals in the three Rust Belt states. Some of those districts had no paper ballots to audit. For instance, PA, where Trump "won" by 80K votes, they have a paperless system. So all they can really do is reaudit the machines...