Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. Their failed arguments are examined here:

[healthmyths]

Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. It is why Republicans are suffering politically since they won a states rights argument with the Dobbs decision.

But state’s rights do not supersede individual right’s including the unenumerated individual right to privacy for impregnated women.

One of Saint Ding’s failed arguments goes something like this:

ding said: It's extremely clear that the reason you are playing word games in your dehumanization of human life is to make it easier to kill them and dismiss their right to life. dvng. #4,716​

An argument based upon what Saint Ding thinks I am thinking being evil, is not an argument at all.

Protected unborn life from the instant of conception has not been a norm for Americans for centuries. The norm the past fifty years has been that protected life begins at reasonable expectation of life outside the womb.

Saint Heynorm does the same thing by accusing me of thinking ZEFs are worthless clump of cells,

HeyNorm said: “ ….. all they are carrying is a worthless clump of cells, right? Like a parasite, right?” hynrm.23.11.19 #772​

I don’t think that at all. My response is here:
nf.23.11.21 #11,948 to hynrm.23.11.19 #772

nf.23.11.21 #1

First of all let me state my position on abortion.
1) It should be decided by at the most the state, possibly the county, etc.
2) If decided, abortion should be allowed for:
a) health of the mother...no question.
b) rape, incest any forced sexual intercourse resulting in pregnancy.
c) abortion for the first time or under age 30.
3) BUT.. abortions done by women that have already had 1 or more abortions...
a) If the 2nd or more abortion the woman is charged with manslaughter i.e. irresponsible sex, no protection, etc.
b) Convicted of illegal abortion would not be imprisoned by required attendance of responsible sex and
100 hours of community services.

Now for FACTS to support the above:
We found that 45% of patients reported having one or more prior abortions. Age was most strongly associated with this outcome, and patients aged 30 and older had more than two times the odds of having had a prior abortion compared with those aged 20–24.

Which Abortion Patients Have Had a Prior Abortion? Findings from the 2014 U.S. Abortion Patient Survey - PMC

Background: Updated information about abortion patients who have had a prior abortion could inform patient-centered practices that help women avoid unintended pregnancies in the future. Materials and Methods: Data come from a national sample of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FACT is any woman over aged 30 that have already had the killing of a human being, should be punished for
having another abortion! The request for the abortion by a woman over 30 who've had 1 or more previous abortion should BE PUNISHED for not having the responsible sexual behavior control!

This won't STOP abortions. But it will reduce the killings of innocent humans which should be EVERYONE's
acceptance. Reduce killing babies by penalizing ignorant, irresponsible women (and if possible the men!!!) who continue to kill babies due to their lack of caring.

 

[Frankenstein]

First of all let me state my position on abortion.
1) It should be decided by at the most the state, possibly the county, etc.
2) If decided, abortion should be allowed for:
a) health of the mother...no question.
b) rape, incest any forced sexual intercourse resulting in pregnancy.
c) abortion for the first time or under age 30.
3) BUT.. abortions done by women that have already had 1 or more abortions...
a) If the 2nd or more abortion the woman is charged with manslaughter i.e. irresponsible sex, no protection, etc.
b) Convicted of illegal abortion would not be imprisoned by required attendance of responsible sex and
100 hours of community services.

Now for FACTS to support the above:
We found that 45% of patients reported having one or more prior abortions. Age was most strongly associated with this outcome, and patients aged 30 and older had more than two times the odds of having had a prior abortion compared with those aged 20–24.

Which Abortion Patients Have Had a Prior Abortion? Findings from the 2014 U.S. Abortion Patient Survey - PMC

Background: Updated information about abortion patients who have had a prior abortion could inform patient-centered practices that help women avoid unintended pregnancies in the future. Materials and Methods: Data come from a national sample of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FACT is any woman over aged 30 that have already had the killing of a human being, should be punished for
having another abortion! The request for the abortion by a woman over 30 who've had 1 or more previous abortion should BE PUNISHED for not having the responsible sexual behavior control!

This won't STOP abortions. But it will reduce the killings of innocent humans which should be EVERYONE's
acceptance. Reduce killing babies by penalizing ignorant, irresponsible women (and if possible the men!!!) who continue to kill babies due to their lack of caring.

The problem is then every pregnancy according to liberals will become rape, incest, or a medical emergency.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yet when I ask how you won't be able to provide an answer

I already did, you're ignoring the answer. Read the posts. You people scapegoat your sins on an innocent man and focus on an afterlife that you have zero evidence even exists. That's how you neglect this life, the one you actually have. How more pathetic and silly could you be? Focusing on an afterlife, you may not have, for this life, the one you do have. Duh. That's Christianity. Dumping your bad behavior, and mental poop, on an innocent person and having them suffer for you, then if that wasn't enough, you throw away this life, for an afterlife that you may not even have. Amazing the poopiness of your beliefs. Pure poopy. It's doo-doo on a stick.

​

 

[healthmyths]

Not true. Republican women have just as many abortions as Democrats. 13% of abortions, that's just over 100,000 abortions per year, are obtained by Evangelical Christian women.

Abortion is health care, and Republican women have complications in their pregancies just as frequently as Democrats. But the difference is that more women die of these complications in red states which have banned abortion after 6 weeks, than in any other states in the USA.

About 2.2% of abortions are due to other physical health concerns of the woman. Other reasons for abortion include:
What the data says about abortion in the U.S.
But one of the largest % of abortions is women over age 30 that have had 1 or more abortions already.
We found that 45% of patients reported having one or more prior abortions. Age was most strongly associated with this outcome, and patients aged 30 and older had more than two times the odds of having had a prior abortion compared with those aged 20–24.

Which Abortion Patients Have Had a Prior Abortion? Findings from the 2014 U.S. Abortion Patient Survey - PMC

Background: Updated information about abortion patients who have had a prior abortion could inform patient-centered practices that help women avoid unintended pregnancies in the future. Materials and Methods: Data come from a national sample of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Frankenstein]

I already did, you're ignoring the answer. Read the posts. You people scapegoat your sins on an innocent man and focus on an afterlife that you have zero evidence even exists. That's how you neglect this life, the one you actually have. How more pathetic and silly could you be? Focusing on an afterlife, you may not have, for this life, the one you do have. Duh. That's Christianity. Dumping your bad behavior, and mental poop, on an innocent person and having them suffer for you, then if that wasn't enough, you throw away this life, for an afterlife that you may not even have. Amazing the poopiness of your beliefs. Pure poopy. It's doo-doo on a stick.

​

I trivialize this life because of the next one?
I live this life to the fullest, Jesus died for my sins, that was a gift. God doesn't need you to believe for it to remain true.

 

[healthmyths]

The exceptions for the life of the mother are vague and poorly written leaving hospitals erring on the side of caution and refusing all care. Some hospitals in red states have closed their maternity wards completely rather than risk law suits, and this is affecting ALL pregnant women, forcing them to drive great distances for care.

When things go horribly wrong in a pregnancy, women don't have time to travel to another state and find a hospital or clinic to help them. One of the women in the Texas law suit had an ectopic pregnancy. You have 10 minutes from the time your time your tube bursts, to get treatment, or you bleed out.

The woman with the ectopic pregnancy was admitted to hospital to wait for her tube to burst. But when the tube burst, the tiny heart kept beating and so long as the heart was beating, they couldn't start the surgery. I saw a Texas lawmaker interviewed saying that's not what the law intended at all. Doesn't matter if that isn't what they intended, that's the result.

A Texas Court overturn the "heartbeat" portion of the bill and added an exception where it's determined that the fetus isn't viable and the life of the mother is on the line, Doctors can perform the abortion and the Texas AG appealled that decision.

Yes, an abortion is legal in Texas if a licensed physician determines that it is necessary to save the life of the pregnant person or prevent a serious risk to their health:

• The patient has a life-threatening condition
• The physician tries to save the life of the fetus unless this would increase the risk of the pregnant patient's death or impairment
  
  Chapter 170A of the Texas Health & Safety Code prohibits abortions outright, except in certain circumstances. Section 170A.002 prohibits a person from performing, inducing, or attempting an abortion. There is an exception for situations in which the life or health of the pregnant patient is at risk.
• Is abortion illegal in Texas?.

 

[healthmyths]

Sounds like states need to work on their procedures then, but that’s no reason to upend the entire system and disregard the cotus.

States have laws allowing abortions for the scenario listed above. If doctors are not doing it, then that’s on them not the state. The state says they can.

Also, you on the left always like to talk about the extreme examples, but ignore the more common reason for abortion, which is “I just don’t want it”.

That is generally the number one reason people have abortions.

FACTS to support your opinion!!
Chapter 170A of the Texas Health & Safety Code prohibits abortions outright, except in certain circumstances.

Section 170A.002 prohibits a person from performing, inducing, or attempting an abortion.
There is an exception for situations in which the life or health of the pregnant patient is at risk.
In order for the exception to apply, three factors must be met:

• A licensed physician must perform the abortion.
• The patient must have a life-threatening condition and be at risk of death or "substantial impairment of a major bodily function" if the abortion is not performed. "Substantial impairment of a major bodily function" is not defined in this chapter.
• The physician must try to save the life of the fetus unless this would increase the risk of the pregnant patient's death or impairment.

There are additional situations where the exception for the life or health of the patient does not apply. Please read the entirety of Section 170A.002 for more details.

Is abortion illegal in Texas?

Is abortion illegal in Texas?

www.sll.texas.gov

But the biased MSM doesn't EVER share the FACTS!

 

[TruthNotBS]

I trivialize this life because of the next one?
I live this life to the fullest, Jesus died for my sins, that was a gift. God doesn't need you to believe for it to remain true.

Too many Christians have no concern for this world, due to their pipe dream that there's an afterlife where "the true life" is going to be lived. That's part of the problem with you Christians. You also scapegoat an innocent man, dumping your bad behavior on him, rather than taking responsibility for it and reforming yourself.

 

[DukeU]

Dumping your bad behavior, and mental poop, on an innocent person and having them suffer for you, then if that wasn't enough, you throw away this life, for an afterlife that you may not even have. Amazing the poopiness of your beliefs. Pure poopy. It's doo-doo on a stick.

How are Christians throwing away this life?

SMH.

 

[healthmyths]

I trivialize this life because of the next one?
I live this life to the fullest, Jesus died for my sins, that was a gift. God doesn't need you to believe for it to remain true.

Read the Pascal Wager...Pascal's wager is a philosophical argument that posits that people are essentially gambling about whether or not to believe in God. The argument was developed by Blaise Pascal, a 17th century French mathematician, philosopher, physicist, and theologian.

Pascal's wager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So I'd rather believe there is life after death and be wrong, in which case if there is nothing I WON"T KNOW IT!
But if as some ignorant people believe there is no life after death... AND THEY ARE WRONG... I don't know the
consequences but I'd rather believe there is and there isn't than believe there isn't life after death and I'm wrong!

 

[TruthNotBS]

How are Christians throwing away this life?

SMH.

They are deluding themselves, believing a bunch of gobbledygook that amounts to nothing. It stunts their growth.

 

[DukeU]

Too many Christians have no concern for this world, due to their pipe dream that there's an afterlife where "the true life" is going to be lived. That's part of the problem with you Christians. You also scapegoat an innocent man, dumping your bad behavior on him, rather than taking responsibility for it and reforming yourself.

Serious question.

What have you done for this world?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

co

Your argument is exactly the same as those who didn’t believe that blacks were human enough to be afforded their rights.

????? “exactly the same” How in the hell can you imagine that?

Black people who were not afforded their equal rights by the white male gentleman class of the founding generation were “born“ or not inside the body of a woman who was herself “born”

The unborn whether black, white or native American were not a protected class in the legal educated minds of the white male gentleman class who wrote our constitution.

Most of that white male gentleman class considered the imported Africans to be human.

Jefferson was somewhat wrong and someways right on the issue of slavery and race.

The Practice of Slavery at Monticello

www.monticello.org

This abomination must have an end,” Jefferson wrote of the American slave system in 1787.3 Not only was the institution unjust, holding millions of people as captive chattel, but it also threatened to destroy the fledgling union of American states created in 1776. “A commerce of the most boisterous passions,” slavery was—as John Locke termed it— a “state of war” between the “unremitting despotism” of the master and the “degrading submissions” of the captive. Jefferson predicted that the continuance of slavery in America would inevitably result in a race war “which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race”—with whites, he thought, being most likely to be destroyed. Still, Jefferson conceded the difficulties of ending the “perpetual” system of slavery in America, especially when white men were “nursed, educated, and daily exercised in tyranny.” Indeed, he noted, “the man must be a prodigy who can retain his manners and morals undepraved” by the violence of the slave system.4​

 

[Dragonlady]

About 2.2% of abortions are due to other physical health concerns of tandhe woman. Other reasons for abortion include:
What the data says about abortion in the U.S.
But one of the largest % of abortions is women over age 30 that have had 1 or more abortions already.
We found that 45% of patients reported having one or more prior abortions. Age was most strongly associated with this outcome, and patients aged 30 and oldesaar had more than two times the odds of having had a prior abortion compared with those aged 20–24.

Which Abortion Patients Have Had a Prior Abortion? Findings from the 2014 U.S. Abortion Patient Survey - PMC

Background: Updated information about abortion patients who have had a prior abortion could inform patient-centered practices that help women avoid unintended pregnancies in the future. Materials and Methods: Data come from a national sample of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You have no clue what you're talking about.

If 2.2% of abortions are due to health concerns of the women, and there are 1 million abortions per year, that's OVER 2000 women who need an abortion for their health - EVERY YEAR.

Please note that none of these laws allow for an abortion for the "health" of the woman. Only to save her life. Laws allowing abortion to preserve her health have been used by doctors to give abortions for her "mental health", and Republicans can't have that. Only if the woman will die without the abortion, can she get one, and even then.

A Texas woman went to court and got a court order to allow her an abortion because her carrying her non-viable fetus to term would kill her, and Ken Paxton threaten charges against both her doctor and her hospital, if anyone gave that woman an abortion. She had to go out of state to get it.

Yes, older women are more likely to have had a prior abortion because they're more likely to have had a miscarriage. There is no difference between a D&C for an abortion, and a D&C for a miscarriage. I had to have a D&C after each of my miscarriages, and in the case of the second miscarriage, the dead fetus was still in my womb, when I had the "abortion". It had been dead for more than 2 weeks, and I was in extreme danger of sepsis at that point.

 

[Dragonlady]

I trivialize this life because of the next one?
I live this life to the fullest, Jesus died for my sins, that was a gift. God doesn't need you to believe for it to remain true.

You think that Jesus dying for your sins allows you to live life as you please and ignore His commandments. If you choose to lie, cheat and steal, even though you know it's wrong, you have no salvation, because faith without deeds is dead.

You vote for Trump who breaks all of the commandments, and you cheer him on for doing it, and somehow think your faith will save you? You truly are very gullible.

 

[DukeU]

Yes, older women are more likely to have had a prior abortion because they're more likely to have had a miscarriage. There is no difference between a D&C for an abortion, and a D&C for a miscarriage. I had to have a D&C after each of my miscarriages, and in the case of the second miscarriage, the dead fetus was still in my womb, when I had the "abortion". It had been dead for more than 2 weeks, and I was in extreme danger of sepsis at that point.

Miscarriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion.

Why do you have to try and muddy the waters with this irrelevant talking point?

No one has suggested you carry around a dead baby in your womb.

 

[DukeU]

You think that Jesus dying for your sins allows you to live life as you please and ignore His commandments.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Name one person who said this.

I'll wait.

 

[HeyNorm]

co

????? “exactly the same” How in the hell can you imagine that?

Black people who were not afforded their equal rights by the white male gentleman class of the founding generation were “born“ or not inside the body of a woman who was herself “born”

The unborn whether black, white or native American were not a protected class in the legal educated minds of the white male gentleman class who wrote our constitution.

Most of that white male gentleman class considered the imported Africans to be human.

Jefferson was somewhat wrong and someways right on the issue of slavery and race.

The Practice of Slavery at Monticello

www.monticello.org

This abomination must have an end,” Jefferson wrote of the American slave system in 1787.3 Not only was the institution unjust, holding millions of people as captive chattel, but it also threatened to destroy the fledgling union of American states created in 1776. “A commerce of the most boisterous passions,” slavery was—as John Locke termed it— a “state of war” between the “unremitting despotism” of the master and the “degrading submissions” of the captive. Jefferson predicted that the continuance of slavery in America would inevitably result in a race war “which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race”—with whites, he thought, being most likely to be destroyed. Still, Jefferson conceded the difficulties of ending the “perpetual” system of slavery in America, especially when white men were “nursed, educated, and daily exercised in tyranny.” Indeed, he noted, “the man must be a prodigy who can retain his manners and morals undepraved” by the violence of the slave system.4​

And yet, they were NOT treated equally even though BORN.

You can avoid reality with word salads all you want, but it is the same party, democrats, that fought equality for blacks, that today fight against equality for both Men and the unborn. And by the same reasoning.

Bigots.

 

[Frankenstein]

Too many Christians have no concern for this world, due to their pipe dream that there's an afterlife where "the true life" is going to be lived. That's part of the problem with you Christians. You also scapegoat an innocent man, dumping your bad behavior on him, rather than taking responsibility for it and reforming yourself.

Nonsense, it's why we are the most charitable in, and outside our churches, and country!

 

[Frankenstein]

You think that Jesus dying for your sins allows you to live life as you please and ignore His commandments. If you choose to lie, cheat and steal, even though you know it's wrong, you have no salvation, because faith without deeds is dead.

You vote for Trump who breaks all of the commandments, and you cheer him on for doing it, and somehow think your faith will save you? You truly are very gullible.

No, I do not believe that I should sin more, so that grace may abound! You think voting for the whore who had an affair with at least one married man, and whose husband knocked up his nanny in his former marriage. You think I would vote for killing babies, and enabling mental illness among children through gender confusing them, encouraging them to mutilate themselves?