religion is just brainwashing

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We have all been brainwashed.

Maybe to one degree or another, but the difference between brainwashing and not brainwashing still exists, regardless of what you or I had for breakfast.

 

[MaryL]

No doubt, but scientists create dogmas that others eventually broke with to eventualy lead to the breakthroughs.

Yes, but that is because scientists are human beings. And the tool for showing the dogma is incorrect? Science, of course. That's one thing that separates science from religion: It has a method for weeding out things that are false.

Yes, that's true. North Korean scientists feared for their lives and they were forced to make bombs and missiles. But what excuse did Einstein have creating the A bomb he and Oppenheimer would later come to regret if they were so damn smart, why did they go through with development to begin with? We are going off topic here, yes. Dogmas are human constructs, sometimes there a reason for them that transcends.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But what excuse did Einstein have creating the A bomb

We could just ask him:

"I made one great mistake in my life... when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification - the danger that the Germans would make them." - Albert Einstein

 

[Aletheia4u]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Hebrews 5:12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Perfect example of the OPs point.

 

[MaryL]

But what excuse did Einstein have creating the A bomb

We could just ask him:

"I made one great mistake in my life... when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification - the danger that the Germans would make them." - Albert Einstein

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be. If Einstein wouldn't have thought of this, somebody else would have.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be.

Well sure, because one human mind can only learn so much. The top mind in quantum mechanics today may know jack shit about vaccines or contrails or evolution. So it goes. Also, the pure pursuit of knowledge includes, inherently, an indifference to ethics. Saying this is not a value or virtue judgment of this pursuit, anymore than is saying that lions eat people.. What we know CAN hurt us, but it is better to know and learn to keep it from hurting us than to never know. And I consider that to be a strong ethic.

 

[Aletheia4u]

Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Perfect example of the OPs point.

But if they were raised in the word of God, that they will know by now that God said that those that are born of the Spirit, that they are not stuck to traditions. That they are being led by the Spirit. Not by traditions. There's no set patterns to follow, but only to do what is right in the sight of God. Jesus was feeding many people on the Sabbath. But In the laws that it said not to leave your homes to gather food for yourself. But Jesus had fed the people and he allowed his disciples to gather grains to eat also on the Sabbath. But the heads of the church judged them for doing that. But they were stuck in traditions that they will not feed someone on the Sabbath, but they will help to save a lamb that had fallen into a pit. A Righteous person is someone that whom chooses to do what is right. One of the main commands of God is to show love to one another. How can showing love for someone if you let them starve. All of the commands rest on those two. But the reason why no one doesn't know that? It is because no one has not been teaching the truth about the word. But now we has devils that are trying to keep people from knowing the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Matthew 15:2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

Exodus 33:3 Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.”

 

[MaryL]

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be.

Well sure, because one human mind can only learn so much. The top mind in quantum mechanics today may know jack shit about vaccines or contrails or evolution. So it goes. Also, the pure pursuit of knowledge includes, inherently, an indifference to ethics. Saying this is not a value or virtue judgment of this pursuit, anymore than is saying that lions eat people.. What we know CAN hurt us, but it is better to know and learn to keep it from hurting us than to never know. And I consider that to be a strong ethic.[/QUOTE

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be.

Well sure, because one human mind can only learn so much. The top mind in quantum mechanics today may know jack shit about vaccines or contrails or evolution. So it goes. Also, the pure pursuit of knowledge includes, inherently, an indifference to ethics. Saying this is not a value or virtue judgment of this pursuit, anymore than is saying that lions eat people.. What we know CAN hurt us, but it is better to know and learn to keep it from hurting us than to never know. And I consider that to be a strong ethic.

Well spoken.People make mistakes, and we learn from that, hopefully. Beware of the dogma.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Proverbs 22:6 Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Perfect example of the OPs point.

But if they were raised in the word of God, that they will know by now that God said that those that are born of the Spirit, that they are not stuck to traditions. That they are being led by the Spirit. Not by traditions. There's no set patterns to follow, but only to do what is right in the sight of God. Jesus was feeding many people on the Sabbath. But In the laws that it said not to leave your homes to gather food for yourself. But Jesus had fed the people and he allowed his disciples to gather grains to eat also on the Sabbath. But the heads of the church judged them for doing that. But they were stuck in traditions that they will not feed someone on the Sabbath, but they will help to save a lamb that had fallen into a pit. A Righteous person is someone that whom chooses to do what is right. One of the main commands of God is to show love to one another. How can showing love for someone if you let them starve. All of the commands rest on those two. But the reason why no one doesn't know that? It is because no one has not been teaching the truth about the word. But now we has devils that are trying to keep people from knowing the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Matthew 15:2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?

Exodus 33:3 Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I might destroy you on the way.”

Yep, exactly.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be.

Well sure, because one human mind can only learn so much. The top mind in quantum mechanics today may know jack shit about vaccines or contrails or evolution. So it goes. Also, the pure pursuit of knowledge includes, inherently, an indifference to ethics. Saying this is not a value or virtue judgment of this pursuit, anymore than is saying that lions eat people.. What we know CAN hurt us, but it is better to know and learn to keep it from hurting us than to never know. And I consider that to be a strong ethic.[/QUOTE

It amazes me just how freeking DUMB smart people can be.

Well sure, because one human mind can only learn so much. The top mind in quantum mechanics today may know jack shit about vaccines or contrails or evolution. So it goes. Also, the pure pursuit of knowledge includes, inherently, an indifference to ethics. Saying this is not a value or virtue judgment of this pursuit, anymore than is saying that lions eat people.. What we know CAN hurt us, but it is better to know and learn to keep it from hurting us than to never know. And I consider that to be a strong ethic.

Well spoken.People make mistakes, and we learn from that, hopefully. Beware of the dogma.

Absolutely, beware the dogma.

 

[MaryL]

I have to ask WHAT dogma north Korean scientist follow about now.

You could ask and get an answer, and still the dogma does not arise from science itself. It arises from religion, namely, the cult of Kim.

Doctors supported smoking, and now they say homosexuality isn't a mental illness.

And science proved both false. You're helping me out, here.

You are half right. Smoking bad. Homosexuality good. Take your pick of dogma you want. One is fact, the other is speculative political gamesmanship.

 

[there4eyeM]

Truth liberates. Recognition of truth is the key. This is not accomplished by teaching what to think, but how.

 

[zaangalewa]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

So because your parents are Catholics this minimized your risk to become an Islamist. That's why your parents are wrong.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes. Catholicism is one of the best examples ever of how brainwashing works. It is a truly sick cult.

And what do you suggest now to do with me, because I am a convinced Catholic without any need to have to be one? A forum here in Germany banned me for example because I wrote a Latin prayer for US-American soldiers who were killed in the Iraq. How did I brainwash which people with a language nearly no one understands any longer, although it is the basic language of the whole western world? Why am I not allowed to pray whenever I like to pray for whomever on any reason in every place in the world where I am? What makes me so dangerous to do so and what makes the modern world so "tolerant" and "multi-cultural"? Who gives you the right to call all Catholics sick and brainwashed - but gives Catholics not the right to pray in public?

 

[zaangalewa]

... So you think kind arguments appealing to human freedoms are evil?

I do not know his answer but my answer would be: "Yes". An example for such a freedom: "No one has any right to forbid children to have free sex: Every child has the right to chose the own sexual partner." That's not a joke! I remember such a text in German from the year 1985. The whole text was made from lawyers of the left political spectrum, who tried to eliminate all sexual crimes. Everything should be allowed. They fought with this text for the rights of homosexual and pedophile men. The most homosexual men were shocked too, women anyway. It never became a law.

In general: We have a lot of "freedoms" which are no freedom at all. The freedom to use drugs for example is as long a freedom as you do not use drugs. Afterwards, when you use drugs (better to say when drugs use you), nothing is freedom any longer - except you are able to win back your freedom in a long heavy fight against yourself with the help of some (professional) friends. A "brainwashing" sentence in such a context is for example "Alone you are not able to win - but only alone you will win".

 

[zaangalewa]

Catholic bashing is so last century.

I'm not Catholic bashing as much as bashing ''humans''--humans invented religion

Never in history existed human beings without religion. Also atheism is only a belief. So you speak about that human beings have to be bashed because they are human beings. A full time job for a slave driver, who tries to enslave everyone and oneself.

 

[zaangalewa]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

Sure. Open season for snarky smart asses. What ISN'T "brain washing"?

Catholic (=universal) education. That's why he is able to attack the lifestyle and religiosity of his parents. He knows they will always love him - independent from his decisions and deeds. There will always be hope until the last moment of life - and maybe longer.

 

[Mac1958]

It provides answers and strength and guidance and comfort to many.

Why do grown adults need a fairy tale to "provide answers and strength?"

Humans have always had that need. If mocking and insulting them makes you feel a little better about yourself (it looks like you have a need, too, huh?), have at it.
.

 

[Mac1958]

It provides answers and strength and guidance and comfort to many.

sure, but secular men, people, writings can also do that

Sure, but this works for them. Life can be tough. If this helps, great.
.