Zone1 Can you find the Flaw in Atheist Speaker Christopher Hitchens' Logic Here.

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You dont understand what it really means. Thats the story of your life. Jews were not pacifists.

I do understand what it means. Jesus taught non-violence. And as for your beliefs that Jews were not pacifists... Hitler would disagree. He herded them like sheep.

 

[Hafar1014]

If that were true you'd be able to show how that was true rather than making an unsubstantiated accusation.

If that were true you'd be able to show how that was true rather than making an unsubstantiated accusation.

You attack Christianity on a daily basis here. And you continue to do it even after your errors have been explained to you.

That's you rationalizing a wrong as a right. Adam did the same thing.

God: Adam did you eat the fruit?
Adam: The woman YOU made gave it to me.

Jesus is Jewish.

I

If that were true you'd be able to show how that was true rather than making an unsubstantiated accusation.

If that were true you'd be able to show how that was true rather than making an unsubstantiated accusation.

You attack Christianity on a daily basis here. And you continue to do it even after your errors have been explained to you.

That's you rationalizing a wrong as a right. Adam did the same thing.

God: Adam did you eat the fruit?
Adam: The woman YOU made gave it to me.

Jesus is Jewish.

You are a moral absolutist by your own words. Thats categorical and concrete thinking. Its also impossible since there are no absolutes. You also have some guilt stuff going on. Not healthy.
Every moral judgement must have context.

 

[ding]

I

You are a moral absolutist by your own words. Thats categorical and concrete thinking. Its also impossible since there are no absolutes.

Morals may be absolute but I am not. I have free will. I can choose to be moral or immoral and have chosen both at different times. What I don't do is rationalize I'm being moral when I'm not. That's what pieces of shit do.

You also have some guilt stuff going on.

If that were true I would rationalize I was being moral when I'm not. Which is what you do all the time. It's your guilt that won't allow you to be honest about what you do.

Not healthy.

Not owning your immorality is what is unhealthy. Someone who supposedly worked in the mental health field should know that.

Every moral judgement must have context.

That's what every moral relativist says to himself when he is rationalizing he's a good person as he is doing wrong.

 

[alang1216]

Google is your friend.

Judaism is monotheistic because it is based on the foundational belief in one, indivisible God who created and governs all existence, a revolutionary concept initiated by Abraham and solidified by Moses. This shift from surrounding polytheistic traditions emphasized ethical behavior and rejected idolatry, framing God as universal and just.

Key reasons for this monotheistic foundation include:

• The Abrahamic Covenant: Abraham rejected the paganism of his time to worship a single God, making this faith the cornerstone of Jewish tradition.
• Ethical Monotheism:Unlike other ancient religions where gods acted capriciously, Judaism posits that the one God is just, moral, and demands ethical behavior from humanity
  .
• • Anti-Tyranical Stance: Monotheism in the ancient Near East was a political and religious statement against the worship of multiple, often dictatorial, deities.
  • Evolutionary/Developmental History: While some perspectives argue it developed over time from earlier, henotheistic beliefs, it became a strict, defining characteristic of the faith.
  • God as "One" and Unique: The core confession of faith (the Shema) proclaims that God is unique and unlike any other entity.

Yes, Google is my friend. Regardless of the history you wish was real, Judaism didn't become monotheistic until the Babylonian exile.

AI Overview

Ancient Israelite religion evolved from early polytheism (worshipping multiple gods like El, Baal, and Asherah) to
monolatry (worshipping only Yahweh while acknowledging others) before finally becoming strictly monotheistic. This transition occurred gradually, with strict monotheism becoming dominant only during the Babylonian captivity or later.

Key Historical Stages:

• Polytheism/Cultural Context: Early Israelites (before and during the early monarchy) operated within a Canaanite polytheistic framework, where Yahweh was often worshipped alongside other deities like Asherah, his consort.
• Monolatry (Henotheism): A significant stage where Yahweh was the exclusive, preferred deity, but the existence of other gods was not denied (e.g., "Thou shalt have no other gods before me").
• Monotheism: Emerging around the 7th–6th centuries BCE (e.g., in Isaiah), this belief system asserted that Yahweh is the only God, and all others are non-existent idols.

While traditional biblical narratives suggest early monotheism, archaeological evidence and textual analysis indicate a long, complex evolution from polytheistic roots.

 

[ding]

Yes, Google is my friend. Regardless of the history you wish was real, Judaism didn't become monotheistic until the Babylonian exile.

While traditional biblical narratives suggest early monotheism, archaeological evidence and textual analysis indicate a long, complex evolution from polytheistic roots.

Their oral traditions say otherwise. Maybe you are confusing origin, transition and adoption. It happened over a thousand year period or whatever the time period was from the time of Abraham to Exodus.

 

[alang1216]

Their oral traditions say otherwise. Maybe you are confusing origin, transition and adoption. It happened over a thousand year period or whatever the time period was from the time of Abraham to Exodus.

Oral traditions are self-serving, archeology is not.

 

[ding]

Oral traditions are self-serving, archeology is not.

We aren't saying different things. I've always said the OT describes a transition. I've posted it many times. You are literally arguing something that is irrelevant.

 

[ding]

Oral traditions are self-serving

Given your ridiculous embelishment argument for why Jesus was worshiped as God, I really don't think you should be taking the high ground on self serving.

 

[schmidlap]

I say "the flaw," but no doubt there are more than one flaw to be found. Not a slam on him, but any talk about a controversial topic is bound to be full of flaws from the point of view of folks on the other side of the opinion given (or implied in this case).I've heard the name Christopher Hitchens, but I'm much more familiar with the name Richard Dawkins, whose work I have debunked many times. Anyway, Hitchens claims to be both British and American, which is ironic considering he no doubt finds aburd the idea that Jesus was both man and God. For those of you who don't like to watch videos of atheists smugly pontificating, I'll give you the briefest of versions: How likely is it, asks Hitchens, that obscure and illiterate people in the middle east suddenly were provided through devine intervention, the one true religion?
I assume he means the Jews, and later, the Christians. These type folks never have a negative word to say about Islam or Muslims.

Your biased perspective reeks of falsehoods.

Hitchens and Dawkins have had much to say that is highly critical of Islam, and documentation for both abound.

E.g.,

Christopher Hitchens Islam

christopherhitchens.net

Some fears about Islam are entirely rational

Richard Dawkins on the perils of outlawing ‘Islamophobia’.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Some think 'religion' is hardwired into the brain. Empathy certainly is, given how long it takes humans to be able to fend for themselves, and even then they still need a clan or a tribe. People who lack empathy rarely survive long, except in urban societies and being born in a aristocratic caste protected from the consequences of their lack.

The Sheep's Good Shepherd Will Fleece and Butcher Them

Believing in obedience to hereditary rule over a group that someone identifies with is not empathetic; it is simply pathetic.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Could it be, seldom believe? I truly wish I could help. While I've never had a "crisis" of faith, I did experience great confusion after an experience of God that was perfect/complete love--not of just me, but of all. My experience did not relate to--was not at all like--the Old Testament portrayal/perspective of God. Either the Old Testament was wrong, or I was wrong, and I could not believe either was. My study of the Old Testament went nowhere until I met up with an atheist Jew whose first language was Hebrew, where everything came together. That was when I began urging people to first seek and find God--and then study the Bible.

Belief, faith, trust, love may well be beyond you. Perhaps try acceptance. Accept that, down through the ages, people have met up with God and/or have experienced the love of God. Accept it is possible. No belief, no faith--nothing but acceptance, and see if that might present a different perspective.

"To Be, You Must Obey"

True acceptance is not possible, because fate controlled by power-freaks, including the imaginary God Himself, is something that someone with self-respect should never accept. It is nothing but slavish submission, which is the meaning of Islam.

This thread is silliness passing as serious, so a pun fits in here. I slam my head on the floor bowing before some Born to Rule sheik. A real man sheiks in the presence of only those worthy of leadership.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Your biased perspective reeks of falsehoods.

Hitchens and Dawkins have had much to say that is highly critical of Islam, and documentation for both abound.

E.g.,

Christopher Hitchens Islam

christopherhitchens.net

Some fears about Islam are entirely rational

Richard Dawkins on the perils of outlawing ‘Islamophobia’.

www.spiked-online.com

Corrected in Post #2 same thread.

You don't get a cookie, but I'll find the other genius who caught that days later. You two can share an oreo, deciding between yourselves who licks the sugared up lard filling.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Given your ridiculous embelishment argument for why Jesus was worshiped as God, I really don't think you should be taking the high ground on self serving.

Life Isn't Fair. Expect to Sacrifice Those Who Make It Unfair for Us.

 

[alang1216]

We aren't saying different things. I've always said the OT describes a transition. I've posted it many times. You are literally arguing something that is irrelevant.

I was just pointing out the your timeline is not supported by archeology. It shows us that Judaism was still polytheistic at the time of the exodus.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Thats an idol

Too Inconsistent to Ever Get Published Today

The Hebrews' worship of that ridiculous idol disproves the story that they had witnessed any miracles in Egypt and in crossing the Red Sea. Same with those claimed to witness Jesus's miracles; they would have laid down their lives to prevent his crucifixion.

 

[schmidlap]

Corrected in Post #2 same thread.

You don't get a cookie, but I'll find the other genius who caught that days later. You two can share an oreo, deciding between yourselves who licks the sugared up lard filling.

I find it revelatory that you did not bother to acquaint yourself with either Hitchins' nor Dawkins' copious condemnations of Islam before misrepresenting them.

I hope that you will bother to respect the truth in the future.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I find it revelatory that you did not bother to acquaint yourself with either Hitchins' nor Dawkins' copious condemnations of Islam before misrepresenting them.

I hope that you will bother to respect the truth in the future.

The truth is that the overwhelming majority of leftwing Christianity haters never have the courage to condemn Islam.

If you are this butthurt that I made a mistake about Hitchens, I recommend a cold sitzbath until the swelling goes down.

 

[ding]

Life Isn't Fair. Expect to Sacrifice...

100%

Expect to Sacrifice Those Who Make It Unfair for Us.

Good luck with that. Fraud abounds.

I use to pray to God to be the angel of death, but now I just acept what I can control which is pretty much just me. It's probably a good thing he denied my request. I would have been brutal. How's that for honesty?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Incorrect.

"Turn the other cheek," from Jesus's Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:39), is a call to break the cycle of violence and retaliation through nonviolent resistance, not passive submission. It encourages responding to insults or injustice with dignity and grace, rather than meeting anger with more anger.

Key interpretations of this teaching include:

• Nonviolent Defiance: In that culture, a backhanded slap to the right cheek was an insult used by superiors to demean inferiors. Turning the left cheek forced the aggressor to treat the victim as an equal, effectively challenging the humiliation without returning violence.
• Refusal to Retaliate:
  It is a command to abandon personal revenge and "get back" at those who wrong you. It focuses on maintaining personal integrity.
  .
• Radical Love and Trust: It requires relying on God's justice rather than worldly, violent solutions, and even loving one's enemies.
  Contextual Meaning: It does not necessarily mean staying in abusive situations, but rather facing evil with a "third way" that is neither passive nor violent.

Essentially, it is a creative, courageous, and proactive stance that transforms conflict.

Warm and Fuzzy Gets Squished

That cowardly and traitorous advice was meant to protect the Romans, who had hired Jesus to pacify the Jews.

 

[ding]

I was just pointing out the your timeline is not supported by archeology. It shows us that Judaism was still polytheistic at the time of the exodus.

Yes, but Exodus was when it began to take root in earnest. Exodus makes it pretty clear it wasn't an event. Lot's of backsliding. But how is that not like anything else.