Religion and Ethics 2.0

[ding]

You mean you can’t disprove it?

Nothing to disprove except your say so. Better luck next time.

So you never made the claim that All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia?

I named 22 predominantly Muslim nations that don’t. Prove any of them do.

The mooselimbs in those countries support jihad and sharia.

You know this how?

Otherwise they aren’t real mooselimbs.

Is that your word of the day?

 

[Taz]

Anyways, just because a country doesn’t adopt sharia doesn’t mean that all the Muslim in it still don’t want to live under it.

So you believe the leaders just went against the wishes of every single Muslim in the nation?

Why should they care, like in Turkey, they don’t care about mooselimbs.

Because they want to remain in power. Because they don’t want to drug through the streets by mobs.

Face it. There are 22 Muslim nations where Sharia is not allowed in their laws which are totally secular in origin.

I’m talking about people. Your strawman just went up in flames.

Nations are comprised of people.

You bore me.

 

[Taz]

Nothing to disprove except your say so. Better luck next time.

So you never made the claim that All Muslims support Jihad and Sharia?

I named 22 predominantly Muslim nations that don’t. Prove any of them do.

The mooselimbs in those countries support jihad and sharia.

You know this how?

Otherwise they aren’t real mooselimbs.

Is that your word of the day?

That’s how they call themselves.

 

[ding]

So you believe the leaders just went against the wishes of every single Muslim in the nation?

Why should they care, like in Turkey, they don’t care about mooselimbs.

Because they want to remain in power. Because they don’t want to drug through the streets by mobs.

Face it. There are 22 Muslim nations where Sharia is not allowed in their laws which are totally secular in origin.

I’m talking about people. Your strawman just went up in flames.

Nations are comprised of people.

You bore me.

I find you entertaining.

 

[RWS]

I find you both very much entertaining. The fact that we continue to argue and fight over God for 4000 years, should show some truth.

Nobody's right based on the ot. Only the ancient texts have a possibility to be right.

 

[RWS]

And they're probably wrong too.

But they're more likely to be true.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know about that, but i do know that religions are made to create armies and donators. To help the rulers.

Again RWS whatever you are using "religion" to mean sounds like a "political religion or regime"
clearly doesn't mean "Buddhism" which I guess you'd use "philosophy to mean."

China's govt regime would qualify as what you are using "religion" to mean
but Buddhism wouldn't.

 

[emilynghiem]

I find you both very much entertaining. The fact that we continue to argue and fight over God for 4000 years, should show some truth.

Nobody's right based on the ot. Only the ancient texts have a possibility to be right.

^ This isn't true RWS

Many people including Buddhists, Bahai, and Unitarian Universalists
believe in peace and justice through "independent investigation"
and not coercion or indoctrination.

Not everyone goes to war over beliefs.

And how many wars are over political control of govt,
and wars between tribes and gangs and drug turf.

Be more articulate RWS
if you are talking about
* political religions
* religious abuse
* ideological wars
* tribal wars

Just blaming all the war in world history on "religion" isn't sufficient.

Do we need to talk about each CASE of "religion" you are talking about?
* Crusades and Inquisition
* Asian genocides in Chinese and Cambodian history
* African tribal wars
* Native American tribal wars
* European colonialism for land conquest and imperial development
* Muslim conquests for political control
* modern Islamist regimes and Jihadist attacks
* current battles for control of govt and media narrative
between POLITICAL PARTIES and corporate financial interests

Which ones RWS?
Each context has different history and different solutions
that will be lead by DIFFERENT GROUPS AND LEADERS.

The Black Muslims and Christians in America will likely lead reforms to stop
the genocidal waste of resources on failed prisons and criminal justice run amok

Christians in China and Korea will likely be the key to reforming
the systems in their countries that are oppressing and killing people.

Where do you want to focus RWS
and the solutions will vary from one nation or group to another.

The common principles are still based on
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE to address injustice and cycles of oppressive abuses
and to restore peace and justice in relations and institutions
so those groups can work together to solve Economic and Political problems.

 

[RWS]

I don't know about that, but i do know that religions are made to create armies and donators. To help the rulers.

Again RWS whatever you are using "religion" to mean sounds like a "political religion or regime"
clearly doesn't mean "Buddhism" which I guess you'd use "philosophy to mean."

China's govt regime would qualify as what you are using "religion" to mean
but Buddhism wouldn't.

Why are you Christian.

I find you both very much entertaining. The fact that we continue to argue and fight over God for 4000 years, should show some truth.

Nobody's right based on the ot. Only the ancient texts have a possibility to be right.

^ This isn't true RWS

Many people including Buddhists, Bahai, and Unitarian Universalists
believe in peace and justice through "independent investigation"
and not coercion or indoctrination.

Not everyone goes to war over beliefs.

And how many wars are over political control of govt,
and wars between tribes and gangs and drug turf.

Be more articulate RWS
if you are talking about
* political religions
* religious abuse
* ideological wars
* tribal wars

Just blaming all the war in world history on "religion" isn't sufficient.

Do we need to talk about each CASE of "religion" you are talking about?
* Crusades and Inquisition
* Asian genocides in Chinese and Cambodian history
* African tribal wars
* Native American tribal wars
* European colonialism for land conquest and imperial development
* Muslim conquests for political control
* modern Islamist regimes and Jihadist attacks
* current battles for control of govt and media narrative
between POLITICAL PARTIES and corporate financial interests

Which ones RWS?
Each context has different history and different solutions
that will be lead by DIFFERENT GROUPS AND LEADERS.

The Black Muslims and Christians in America will likely lead reforms to stop
the genocidal waste of resources on failed prisons and criminal justice run amok

Christians in China and Korea will likely be the key to reforming
the systems in their countries that are oppressing and killing people.

Where do you want to focus RWS
and the solutions will vary from one nation or group to another.

The common principles are still based on
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE to address injustice and cycles of oppressive abuses
and to restore peace and justice in relations and institutions
so those groups can work together to solve Economic and Political problems.

Emily, I am talking about the ot religions. They killed each other over bullshit.

 

[RWS]

We'll have further conversations on the others.

 

[emilynghiem]

???? Okay let's back track RWS
by your definition of Religion it has to
* be a for profit set up where it is a business and not really about the principles just making profits
* be for the benefit of people running it and not for the followers
* false and not real

Is this correct?
Is this an accurate description of what you
mean by "religion" RWS

There is no true Christian on this forum. Or any other religion. You got converted at some point by force.

??? who are you addressing with the statements:

A. Because your birth religion is based on the fact that they killed your ancestors that had different beliefs.
B. [there is no true Christian or follower of any other religion] because "You got converted at some point by force."

RWS who and what are you addressing with these two statements A and B in BOLDFACE

As for me
A. I arrived at my current beliefs based on NATURAL LAWS AND PROCESS
ie FREE WILL and choosing to look at things in the most inclusive way I can

This is consistent with the beliefs in
* Buddhism about freeing one's mind perception and awareness to UNDERSTAND
in order to perceive cause and effect
* Constitutionalism and freedom of choice and religious freedom, and laws/policies based on
"consent of the governed"

Thus "coercion" is not required; it is AGAINST the principles in either
* Buddhism (where there is NO indoctrination or taking things blindly by faith because of "authority of others")
* Constitutionalist principles in "consent of the governed" and "free exercise of religion" ie free choice and individual liberty

B. Converted "at some point by force"
Are you talking about your own situation where you were previously
indoctrinated with Catholic authority and theology but broke free from that?

As for me,
because people in the past had NOT FORGIVEN and resolved past issues,
these repeated and I was subjected to relationship abuse and fraud not knowing
these patterns even existed and were repeating from the past.

Once I FORGAVE the past, these problems no longer oppressed me
and biased my judgment against people from the past.

Instead I could see farther into the future with ideas envisioning
how problems in relations and in society can be RESOLVED successfully.

So RWS this "change" I went through
FOLLOWS THE MODEL IN BUDDHISM
where letting go of attachments to the past
opens the mind to see the larger truth including both past and future.

It is NOT FORCED by "coercion killing or pressure"
but the OPPOSITE.

Enlightenment and awareness come from
LETTING GO and NOT responding to pressure or coercion anymore.

Didn't you feel or find a sense of RELIEF PEACE and higher AWARENESS
of greater truth when you let go of your past Catholic indoctrination?

So where you are now is MORE FREE than where you were before.

You weren't FORCED into your current beliefs,
you got AWAY from the beliefs forced on you.

When I got to that place of liberation from past conditioning and coercion,
then I could work with any of these systems (Buddhism, Christianity,
Constitutionalism) and it's ALL BY FREE WILL, none of it is forced.

RWS whatever "religion" and "killing, profits and donations going
to the people running it where it does nothing to help the followers"
refers to the HISTORY of abuses by certain religious or political powers.

When you and I both went through a process of "breaking away" from
the past abusive institutions and patterns/conditioning,
then we no longer follow these same paths.

 

[RWS]

Do any of you deny that major wars took place among the Christians, Jews, and Muslims?

That killed millions of people?

Because they were compelled?

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know about that, but i do know that religions are made to create armies and donators. To help the rulers.

Again RWS whatever you are using "religion" to mean sounds like a "political religion or regime"
clearly doesn't mean "Buddhism" which I guess you'd use "philosophy to mean."

China's govt regime would qualify as what you are using "religion" to mean
but Buddhism wouldn't.

Why are you Christian.

I find you both very much entertaining. The fact that we continue to argue and fight over God for 4000 years, should show some truth.

Nobody's right based on the ot. Only the ancient texts have a possibility to be right.

^ This isn't true RWS

Many people including Buddhists, Bahai, and Unitarian Universalists
believe in peace and justice through "independent investigation"
and not coercion or indoctrination.

Not everyone goes to war over beliefs.

And how many wars are over political control of govt,
and wars between tribes and gangs and drug turf.

Be more articulate RWS
if you are talking about
* political religions
* religious abuse
* ideological wars
* tribal wars

Just blaming all the war in world history on "religion" isn't sufficient.

Do we need to talk about each CASE of "religion" you are talking about?
* Crusades and Inquisition
* Asian genocides in Chinese and Cambodian history
* African tribal wars
* Native American tribal wars
* European colonialism for land conquest and imperial development
* Muslim conquests for political control
* modern Islamist regimes and Jihadist attacks
* current battles for control of govt and media narrative
between POLITICAL PARTIES and corporate financial interests

Which ones RWS?
Each context has different history and different solutions
that will be lead by DIFFERENT GROUPS AND LEADERS.

The Black Muslims and Christians in America will likely lead reforms to stop
the genocidal waste of resources on failed prisons and criminal justice run amok

Christians in China and Korea will likely be the key to reforming
the systems in their countries that are oppressing and killing people.

Where do you want to focus RWS
and the solutions will vary from one nation or group to another.

The common principles are still based on
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE to address injustice and cycles of oppressive abuses
and to restore peace and justice in relations and institutions
so those groups can work together to solve Economic and Political problems.

Emily, I am talking about the ot religions.

Dear RWS
Can we please distinguish between
(1) faith in what "Christianity/Christ Jesus" means universally to all people of all faiths
(2) Christian cultural religious traditions, including language/scripture and structural hierarchy/institutional process

The part that makes
(1) ME personally "Christian" is I believe
in Christianity as meaning CHARITY FOR ALL PEOPLE equally
Christ Jesus as meaning RESTORATIVE JUSTICE bringing peace and justice to ALL HUMANITY inclusively
(2) use Christian language/hierarchy to work with other people
is if THEY IDENTIFY and AFFILIATE as Christians,
then I respect their culture and speak their language
so we can reach agreement by invoking common authority and laws

RWS I don't believe it is necessary to use Christian
systems for all people (as in #2) but that's just to work with
people using their own system so we can communicate
and reconcile plans for solving social ills and improving
relationships by agreeing how to solve problems together

As for my faith in #1
it's because I FORGAVE and it helped me to understand
and resolve problems that I have faith that FORGIVENESS
changes things and helps both PERCEPTIONS and RELATIONS

That change came to me by NATURAL LAWS of cause and effect,
trial and error, where I was trying to RESOLVE PROBLEMS and the
solutions came from FORGIVING them first. That's where my faith
in FORGIVENESS and CHARITY for others came from, logically
in trying to solve problems, like the scientific method of trying
different approaches until you find the right one that works!

 

[RWS]

That's what I'm asking you. See my last post

 

[RWS]

And a couple of paragraghs is good enough.

 

[emilynghiem]

Do any of you deny that major wars took place among the Christians, Jews, and Muslims?

That killed millions of people?

Because they were compelled?

Dear RWS
No I do not deny these religious wars have taken place.

I'm saying with the people who either instigated or committed these killings,
either by leading or by following,
it was because of UNFORGIVENESS and ILL WILL behind their motives
whether you call it religion, politics or political religion.

You call it religion.
I call it Retributive Justice and Political Religion.

Now that we identify you want to address these specific
Religiously-driven killings, wars and genocide,

Can we discuss what YOU call the positive
charity outreach and practice that "other people
call Christian/Christianity or other religious beliefs in charity"

If you do not call this "religion" what do you call
the practice of Charity that Muslims believe is duty to God
and Christians who believe in sharing God's love by helping others?

 

[RWS]

Bc the Christians instigated it.

 

[emilynghiem]

And a couple of paragraghs is good enough.

In short RWS
you only use "religion" to mean "killing/wars compelled by belief in God"

So what term do you use for individual beliefs
when someone feels called to save a life because
"God told them to"

I have friends who have been called to do selfless things out of pure charity and love for others
because of "obedience to God".

What do you call that devotion and practice
since you only use "religion" to mean the negative political wars and killing?

 

[RWS]

Seriously Emily, I love you. But you have to cut down your texts.

 

[RWS]

You believe in what you believe, because you were forced to.