Refugee Status

[blackhawk]

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

 

[Howey]

So...who merits refugee status?

According to the political Right, this family's "travails" galvanized vociferous actions to grant them refugee status. And for what reason? They weren't politically or economically oppressed. They weren't persecuted for religious reasons. Their lives weren't in danger. Their home country had a law against home schooling. That was it.

German home-school family can stay in U.S. indefinitely - Washington Times


Then, you have the plight of thousands of children fleeing atrocities in Central America: murder, gangs, human trafficking and child rape.

The awful reason tens of thousands of children are seeking refuge in the United States - Vox


These are the people that the Republicans want to alter our laws so that we can more quickly deport them back to the violence from which they fled.

It's crazy.

Immigration poll reveals partisan rift over Central American refugees | World news | theguardian.com
70% of Republicans believe these children should NOT be treated as refugees and granted assylum. But this home-schooling family should. WHY?

I've been following this story for a while...It's not that Germany bans home schooling (their public schools are among the best in the world btw), it's that this family wasn't allowed to teach their children an evangelical lying extremist curriculum in Germany.

Lying extremist curriculum.... See?? That's the closed minded crap they were dealing with. These are people of faith. What you call "lies" are their truth. They are not interested in converting you or the German people. They simply want to educate THEIR children the way they believe.

Does one more Christian family in the world threaten you that much?

You can't be very secure in your atheism if it does.

Wait. So because I don't agree with you means I'm an atheist?

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I'm sorry, but what laws did these five, six, seven year old children break? Should we lock them up in prison? Or shall we put them on a boat and ship them back to where they came without due process as specified under our laws - laws passed unanimously by our Congress in 2008?

Do you remember the Mariel boat refugees? Well over a hundred thousand adults...only 2% were found to be in violation of our laws.

 

[blackhawk]

I've been following this story for a while...It's not that Germany bans home schooling (their public schools are among the best in the world btw), it's that this family wasn't allowed to teach their children an evangelical lying extremist curriculum in Germany.

Lying extremist curriculum.... See?? That's the closed minded crap they were dealing with. These are people of faith. What you call "lies" are their truth. They are not interested in converting you or the German people. They simply want to educate THEIR children the way they believe.

Does one more Christian family in the world threaten you that much?

You can't be very secure in your atheism if it does.

Wait. So because I don't agree with you means I'm an atheist?

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I'm sorry, but what laws did these five, six, seven year old children break? Should we lock them up in prison? Or shall we put them on a boat and ship them back to where they came without due process as specified under our laws - laws passed unanimously by our Congress in 2008?

Do you remember the Mariel boat refugees?

The law your referring to has a very specific set of circumstances that have to be meet to apply and it is safe to say it does not apply to everyone crossing the border not to mention it's more than five and six year olds crossing border. Yes those the 2008 law does not apply to should be sent back to their home country.

 

[Howey]

Lying extremist curriculum.... See?? That's the closed minded crap they were dealing with. These are people of faith. What you call "lies" are their truth. They are not interested in converting you or the German people. They simply want to educate THEIR children the way they believe.

Does one more Christian family in the world threaten you that much?

You can't be very secure in your atheism if it does.

Wait. So because I don't agree with you means I'm an atheist?

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I'm sorry, but what laws did these five, six, seven year old children break? Should we lock them up in prison? Or shall we put them on a boat and ship them back to where they came without due process as specified under our laws - laws passed unanimously by our Congress in 2008?

Do you remember the Mariel boat refugees?

The law your referring to has a very specific set of circumstances that have to be meet to apply and it is safe to say it does not apply to everyone crossing the border not to mention it's more than five and six year olds crossing border. Yes those the 2008 law does not apply to should be sent back to their home country.

So how do we determine who the law applies to without a hearing? What do we do with these refugees until then?

 

[Ernie S.]

I've been following this story for a while...It's not that Germany bans home schooling (their public schools are among the best in the world btw), it's that this family wasn't allowed to teach their children an evangelical lying extremist curriculum in Germany.

Lying extremist curriculum.... See?? That's the closed minded crap they were dealing with. These are people of faith. What you call "lies" are their truth. They are not interested in converting you or the German people. They simply want to educate THEIR children the way they believe.

Does one more Christian family in the world threaten you that much?

You can't be very secure in your atheism if it does.

Wait. So because I don't agree with you means I'm an atheist?

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I'm sorry, but what laws did these five, six, seven year old children break? Should we lock them up in prison? Or shall we put them on a boat and ship them back to where they came without due process as specified under our laws - laws passed unanimously by our Congress in 2008?

Do you remember the Mariel boat refugees? Well over a hundred thousand adults...only 2% were found to be in violation of our laws.

Your "an evangelical lying extremist curriculum" comment sure as hell sounded that way. No man of Christ; no one who believes in freedom of religion would use those words, so what is it? Are you a Muslim asshole, just an asshole or an atheist?

Most of the kids are not youngsters, they are largely teen agers. We should give them a check-up and put them on a bus and truck them to Tegucigalpa, Guatemala City or Managua and force their country to foot the bill. American citizens are not responsible for the shit holes these kids come from. If you feel so bad about their plight, by all means, sell your home and your car and give everything to the chilrun. Just don't force me to contribute to your causes and I won't ask you to support mine, OK?

 

[auditor0007]

Uh, nothing has changed in Central America since the 1970s....they are now invading our country since Obama is promising them amnesty and all kinds of free shit paid for by people like me.

blah, blah, blah...... Same old stupid bullshit story from another right wing nut job.

 

[Unkotare]

S
Then, you have the plight of thousands of children fleeing atrocities in Central America: murder, gangs, human trafficking and child rape.

You seem to be saying that everyone who lives in a country with those ills qualifies as a "refugee." You realize that includes almost everyone on earth (including, of course, citizens of the US), right?

 

[blackhawk]

Wait. So because I don't agree with you means I'm an atheist?



I'm sorry, but what laws did these five, six, seven year old children break? Should we lock them up in prison? Or shall we put them on a boat and ship them back to where they came without due process as specified under our laws - laws passed unanimously by our Congress in 2008?

Do you remember the Mariel boat refugees?

The law your referring to has a very specific set of circumstances that have to be meet to apply and it is safe to say it does not apply to everyone crossing the border not to mention it's more than five and six year olds crossing border. Yes those the 2008 law does not apply to should be sent back to their home country.

So how do we determine who the law applies to without a hearing? What do we do with these refugees until then?

Have the border patrol interview them those who have proof they came here for the reasons stated in the 2008 stay those who came because they believed they would be allowed to stay the reason many have given for coming you send back what you don't do is give the entire group blanket amnesty.

 

[Coyote]

Uh, nothing has changed in Central America since the 1970s....they are now invading our country since Obama is promising them amnesty and all kinds of free shit paid for by people like me.

umh...well...so is this German family. What gives? Why the hypocrisy?

I was unaware uneducated German gang members were showing up by the boatloads at our shores overwhelming our services and demanding to be allowed to jump in front of others who respect our laws and want to become contributing Americans.
Let me know when the waves of Germans start showing up.

We aren't talking about undeducated gang members. Try to keep up.

 

[Katzndogz]

In the case of the Germans, it is the State who is the oppressor. In the case of the Latin Americans, the State is not causing the hardship, there are locales within the state which bypass the hardships you list.

The state is not oppressing. It's not different than the state setting minimum criteria for education. In the case of those countries in central America the state IS causing the hardship by it's inability to maintain law and order or protect it's citizens.

Incidentally, the hardships you list are also facing children in Detroit and Chicago and Los Angeles. Taking a kid from Honduras and plunking him down into an LA barrio doesn't change anything.

Children in Detroit and Los Angeles are protected under the law and by law enforcement - it may not get reported always - but the laws are there and usually enforced. That's a key difference.

There are laws in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala too. The people (not children, few are children) are not coming here to escape gang violence. In many cases they are gang members themselves. They are here to get whatever they can.

 

[Coyote]

I've had my fill with soft-hearted people. Especially the Christians and what they've done in Africa. Look, for all the soft-hearted folks, don't inflict the consequences of your soft-heatedness on your neighbors. Sell your car, take the proceeds and send them to a charity in Latin America and provide for these children in a refugee camp in Mexico.

If you want to be humanitarian, be humanitarian. Please don't use your vote to express your humanitarianism because by doing so you shift the costs onto people who disagree with you. That's a misuse of your vote.

I have the right to use my vote any way I see fit - as do you and I suspect I would not agree with all your choices or the costs they might incur.

No, you don't and neither do I. You and I are in a compact, we're co-citizens to each other. When we vote we should be voting on our own vision of what is best for America, instead of using the vote to bolster our own self-images or to help foreigners at the expense of our co-citizens.

Exactly. And the fact that you and I disagree with what is best for America does not give you the right to tell me what I should or should not be doing with my vote.

The fact that you feel you have some right to bind me to provide care for foreigners, especially when I object to doing so and most especially when I suggest a way that you can help the foreigners (sell your car) without involving me, is very troubling.

What's very troubling is that you seem to think you have a right to force *your* vision of what is best for America onto me and take away my right to vote on *my* vision.

It's my vote, not yours.

I may not and likely DO NOT agree with your vision but I won't deny your right to vote it.

 

[Coyote]

EU countries bound by treaty to extradite them back to Germany??? Yeah that's smart. Or maybe they could have moved to Palestine or Iran? Russia?

They can choose to move to any EU country. Why would they be extradited if they chose to move?

There are also closer non-EU countries: Russia, Belarus, Serbia etc - it was already pointed out that they aren't allowed to be picky.

Asylum vs refugee status The EU won't grant asylum for citizens of other EU countries.
Eastern European countries are not all that compatible with German Lutherans or Roman Catholics. Serbia for instance is about 4% Roman Catholic and about 1% all Protestant denominations. These people speak English, likely not Serbian or Russian.
Again, you seek asylum where you'll likely be granted it and refugee status in the first safe place.

Why do they need asylum - they simply need a country that allows them to homeschool the way they want. What evidence is there they tried to find someplace closer? They applied for a visa here then stayed illegally when it expired yet there was no outcry.

All of those countries can offer what they need and are much closer. They don't need to come to the US. They can learn whatever language is needed. That is what we require of foreign speakers after all.

It just seems to me that the difference is really one of different standards. These central American kids are labeled criminals without a thought. The German family is not.

 

[Coyote]

I have the right to use my vote any way I see fit - as do you and I suspect I would not agree with all your choices or the costs they might incur.

No, you don't and neither do I. You and I are in a compact, we're co-citizens to each other. When we vote we should be voting on our own vision of what is best for America, instead of using the vote to bolster our own self-images or to help foreigners at the expense of our co-citizens.

The fact that you feel you have some right to bind me to provide care for foreigners, especially when I object to doing so and most especially when I suggest a way that you can help the foreigners (sell your car) without involving me, is very troubling.

Liberal lemming-think cannot be overcome with reasoned arguments, but thank you for playing!

Well now there is a brilliant well reasoned argument. You can't defend your double standards so you resort to name calling and pretend it's "reasoned arguments" .

 

[Coyote]

So...who merits refugee status?

According to the political Right, this family's "travails" galvanized vociferous actions to grant them refugee status. And for what reason? They weren't politically or economically oppressed. They weren't persecuted for religious reasons. Their lives weren't in danger. Their home country had a law against home schooling. That was it.

German home-school family can stay in U.S. indefinitely - Washington Times


Then, you have the plight of thousands of children fleeing atrocities in Central America: murder, gangs, human trafficking and child rape.

The awful reason tens of thousands of children are seeking refuge in the United States - Vox

Children are uniquely vulnerable to gang violence. The street gangs known as "maras" — M-18 and Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13 — target kids for forced recruitment, usually in their early teenage years, but sometimes as young as kindergarten. They also forcibly recruit girls as "girlfriends," a euphemistic term for a non-consensual relationship that involves rape by one or more gang members.

These are the people that the Republicans want to alter our laws so that we can more quickly deport them back to the violence from which they fled.

It's crazy.

Immigration poll reveals partisan rift over Central American refugees | World news | theguardian.com
70% of Republicans believe these children should NOT be treated as refugees and granted assylum. But this home-schooling family should. WHY?

False equivalences and outright lies, good propaganda there comrade. Border Patrol interviews are saying 95% of these so called kids came because they were promised a free pass and nothing else. Children who come in with an adult are eligible for immediate deportation, why isn't your dear leader following the law?

Do you have a source showing those statistics?

 

[Coyote]

You should also consider the benefits reaped by the corrupt, the profits to be realized here, should these children be sanctioned to stay. Money will change hands, but you can count on very little falling into the hands of these children. They will be provided a subsistence existence here, if that.

At least they would have a better chance for the future here.

They would, for sure, but it is not my responsibility to foot the bill not your right to demand I do. I'm a pretty generous guy. You can ask any of the 4 homeless people I've taken in over the last 5 years here in Alabama.
The money? Hell I have money. That's not the point. The point is I CHOSE to provide these folks with a temporary home so they could get back on their feet.
No one is telling you not to do whatever you can to help these kids. Take up a collection if you like. I'd be happy to kick in a bit.
We're just saying it is not the governments job to take my money and give it to the victim du jour.

You and I have the right as citizens to demand any number of things that we might not agree with.

I most certainly did not agree with invading Iraq yet I'm being forced to foot the bill. Who demanded that I foot that bill?

 

[Coyote]

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I don't know where you get that idea, but as a member of the "left" no - I do not think "anyone" blah blah blah deserves it. I think it needs to be made on a case by case basis with each individual, which can't happen if you decide to speed up deportations of those children.

That German family broke the law and got rewarded for it. No complaining about that.

 

[Katzndogz]

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I don't know where you get that idea, but as a member of the "left" no - I do not think "anyone" blah blah blah deserves it. I think it needs to be made on a case by case basis with each individual, which can't happen if you decide to speed up deportations of those children.

That German family broke the law and got rewarded for it. No complaining about that.

The German family did not break the law. They came here legally and while here applied for an adjustment of status as refugees. If they had sneaked across the border, like the current crop of criminals, they would be here illegally.

The German family made a mistake, they thought it was a free country. They should have gone to Russia which allows both religious freedom and homeschooling.

 

[blackhawk]

Exactly who doesn't deserve refugee status? The left seems to think anyone form a third world or economically depressed country is a refugee who deserves to come to U.S. no questions ask and get citizenship. By the way how do those who want to give the people from Central America who entered the country illegally justify giving them amnesty ahead of those who have come from these same countries through the legal process? Are we actually considering putting those who break our laws ahead of those who follow them?

I don't know where you get that idea, but as a member of the "left" no - I do not think "anyone" blah blah blah deserves it. I think it needs to be made on a case by case basis with each individual, which can't happen if you decide to speed up deportations of those children.

That German family broke the law and got rewarded for it. No complaining about that.

I get that from listening to Democratic politicians speak on the subject.

 

[Coyote]

In the case of the Germans, it is the State who is the oppressor. In the case of the Latin Americans, the State is not causing the hardship, there are locales within the state which bypass the hardships you list.

The state is not oppressing. It's not different than the state setting minimum criteria for education. In the case of those countries in central America the state IS causing the hardship by it's inability to maintain law and order or protect it's citizens.

Incidentally, the hardships you list are also facing children in Detroit and Chicago and Los Angeles. Taking a kid from Honduras and plunking him down into an LA barrio doesn't change anything.

Children in Detroit and Los Angeles are protected under the law and by law enforcement - it may not get reported always - but the laws are there and usually enforced. That's a key difference.

There are laws in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala too. The people (not children, few are children) are not coming here to escape gang violence. In many cases they are gang members themselves. They are here to get whatever they can.

Statistical Analysis Shows that Violence, Not Deferred Action, Is Behind the Surge of Unaccompanied Children Crossing the Border

An analysis of the available data suggests that:

• Violence is among of the main drivers causing the increase. Whereas Central American countries that are experiencing high levels of violence have seen thousands of children flee, others with lower levels of violence are not facing the same outflow.
• By contrast, the evidence does not support the argument that DACA or lax border enforcement has caused the increase in children fleeing to the United States.

They are children according to our laws.
Children 12 and under are fastest growing group of unaccompanied minors at U.S. border

 

[mudwhistle]

So...who merits refugee status?

According to the political Right, this family's "travails" galvanized vociferous actions to grant them refugee status. And for what reason? They weren't politically or economically oppressed. They weren't persecuted for religious reasons. Their lives weren't in danger. Their home country had a law against home schooling. That was it.

German home-school family can stay in U.S. indefinitely - Washington Times


Then, you have the plight of thousands of children fleeing atrocities in Central America: murder, gangs, human trafficking and child rape.

The awful reason tens of thousands of children are seeking refuge in the United States - Vox

Children are uniquely vulnerable to gang violence. The street gangs known as "maras" — M-18 and Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13 — target kids for forced recruitment, usually in their early teenage years, but sometimes as young as kindergarten. They also forcibly recruit girls as "girlfriends," a euphemistic term for a non-consensual relationship that involves rape by one or more gang members.

These are the people that the Republicans want to alter our laws so that we can more quickly deport them back to the violence from which they fled.

It's crazy.

Immigration poll reveals partisan rift over Central American refugees | World news | theguardian.com
70% of Republicans believe these children should NOT be treated as refugees and granted assylum. But this home-schooling family should. WHY?

Those Germans wanted to flee their country because their Socialist government doesn't recognize their religious beliefs.

That's the reason our ancestors came to America in the first place.

If we were to take in every member of every country that didn't have a decent standard of living we wouldn't have any room left for our citizens. You can't compare economic hardship with religious persecution. The problems in Central America are due to actions of a lousy negligent government, not a strict unbending set of laws.

They can come here through legal channels. They don't have to break in.

I see once again the utter hypocrisy of the Obama Administration.