Refugee Status

[Howey]

The law your referring to has a very specific set of circumstances that have to be meet to apply and it is safe to say it does not apply to everyone crossing the border not to mention it's more than five and six year olds crossing border. Yes those the 2008 law does not apply to should be sent back to their home country.

So how do we determine who the law applies to without a hearing? What do we do with these refugees until then?

Have the border patrol interview them those who have proof they came here for the reasons stated in the 2008 stay those who came because they believed they would be allowed to stay the reason many have given for coming you send back what you don't do is give the entire group blanket amnesty.

The Border Patrol carries out the law, it doesn't administer it. Every single one of these children is entitled to a hearing under the law.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

After reading this thread last night and this morning I am compelled to speak up and tell you men and women how moved I am for your willingness to speak up for the German Evangelical Christian family who were granted aslylum here in the United States recently. I am also very grateful for your explaining why the asylum was a good decision on the part of the United States and why allowing aliens from South American nations to flood our nation is also NOT a good decision for our nation. I am truly impressed by the sound response given in this debate over the matter of one evangelical family granted asylum vs. thousands entering our nation via refugee status - from these S. American countries and the reasons given for this not to be permitted.

I am very thankful to Rikurzhen for pointing out why I should not use my vote as a Christian to impose harm on my fellow Americans by a sense of displaced compassion because I have never before heard someone address this point he did make. I have taken your advice to heart, Rikurzhen as I am an evangelical Christian woman.

I wish to thank the following people for speaking up for my fellow brethen and for the good of our country - the evangelical German family granted asylum and tell you that you have restored my confidence in the hearts of my fellow Americans who truly do "get it".

You are a very wise group of people and I cannot thank you enough for speaking up on the behalf of this German family and also our nation in regards to what is safe and what is not safe.

Thank you so very much [MENTION=50157]Rikurzhen[/MENTION], [MENTION=45621]1776[/MENTION], [MENTION=31362]gallantwarrior[/MENTION], [MENTION=45739]Jughead[/MENTION], [MENTION=44252]MACAULAY[/MENTION], [MENTION=26011]Ernie S.[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION], [MENTION=42777]DigitalDrifter[/MENTION], [MENTION=39653]OKTexas[/MENTION], [MENTION=36422]blackhawk[/MENTION], [MENTION=31918]Unkotare[/MENTION] [MENTION=11635]Kat[/MENTION]zndogs, [MENTION=20102]mudwhistle[/MENTION] for courage and willingness to speak up and defend the rights of Christians such as the German family who was granted asylum here. God bless you.

As the German family were granted asylum and not refugee status, I thought this breaking news appropriate for this thread. Yet another Christian family - this time a family who was granted refugee status here in the United States due to religious persecution. I will post a clip from the link to make sure I am abiding by USMB rules. Thank you again, for your informative posts, both ladies and gentlemen, for what you did write - much of which I was totally unaware of. I am very grateful to the posters at USMB for all they offer to this board and the people who read here. Like me! It is a pleasure reading your writings.

From my heart, Jeri

AOL.com Article - Sudan woman who faced death over faith arrives in US

A Sudanese woman who refused to recant her Christian faith in the face of a death sentence, which was later overturned, has arrived in the United States after a flight from Rome.

Meriam Ibrahim arrived with her husband and two children Thursday, officials at Philadelphia International Airport said, and she was to be greeted by Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter.

She was to remain at the airport only briefly before flying on to Manchester, New Hampshire, where she will make her new home. Meriam's husband, Daniel Wani, had previously lived in New Hampshire, where he has family and where hundreds of southern Sudanese refugees have settled over the years.

He had been granted U.S. citizenship when he fled to the United States as a child to escape civil war, but he later returned and was a citizen of South Sudan.

Sudan initially blocked Ibrahim from leaving the country even after its highest court overturned her death sentence in June. At one point, the family took refuge at the U.S. embassy in Khartoum.

 

[Ernie S.]

umh...well...so is this German family. What gives? Why the hypocrisy?

I was unaware uneducated German gang members were showing up by the boatloads at our shores overwhelming our services and demanding to be allowed to jump in front of others who respect our laws and want to become contributing Americans.
Let me know when the waves of Germans start showing up.

We aren't talking about undeducated gang members. Try to keep up.

Yes. In large part, we are.

Here are your "children"

The poor things are destitute. They don't even have smart phones.

 

[Katzndogz]

According to the "refugees" they are not fleeing violence. They are told to say so. They are here for the benefits in the belief that obama will take care of them.

An executive action can be undone by another executive action. It does not come up for debate and is not subject to a vote. When another president voids obama's executive order all these refugees will lose their refugee status and be subject to deportation.

 

[Coyote]

According to the "refugees" they are not fleeing violence. They are told to say so. They are here for the benefits in the belief that obama will take care of them.

An executive action can be undone by another executive action. It does not come up for debate and is not subject to a vote. When another president voids obama's executive order all these refugees will lose their refugee status and be subject to deportation.

Do you havde a credible link supporting that?

 

[Coyote]

I was unaware uneducated German gang members were showing up by the boatloads at our shores overwhelming our services and demanding to be allowed to jump in front of others who respect our laws and want to become contributing Americans.
Let me know when the waves of Germans start showing up.

We aren't talking about undeducated gang members. Try to keep up.

Yes. In large part, we are.

Here are your "children"

The poor things are destitute. They don't even have smart phones.

Gang members? One kid with a cell phone?

 

[Coyote]

So how do we determine who the law applies to without a hearing? What do we do with these refugees until then?

Have the border patrol interview them those who have proof they came here for the reasons stated in the 2008 stay those who came because they believed they would be allowed to stay the reason many have given for coming you send back what you don't do is give the entire group blanket amnesty.

The Border Patrol carries out the law, it doesn't administer it. Every single one of these children is entitled to a hearing under the law.

Exactly. And that is what the Republicans want to circumvent.

 

[bendog]

The state is not oppressing. It's not different than the state setting minimum criteria for education.

The cause of claim focused on the state's actions. The compulsory inculcation of state sanctioned propaganda overriding the parent's wishes to teach their children otherwise.

Let's pick a topic you may find objectionable - say state sanctioned racial superiority and now your kids are forced to be taught this in public schools. Granted, that's an extreme example but it illustrates the principle in play.

The German issue was focused on philosophic issues, not skills (language mastery, math mastery, etc)

In the case of those countries in central America the state IS causing the hardship by it's inability to maintain law and order or protect it's citizens.

Does this mean that every resident in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California can apply for refugee status in Canada because Obama is unwilling to enforce border security?

The unavoidable issue here is that there are SAFE locales within each country, and more importantly from an International Refugee Law perspective, there are SAFE locales BETWEEN the origin country and the US. A refugee is supposed to seek refuge in the FIRST country they enter, not shop around for the best and most generous environment. The point, after all, is to find immediate refuge of a temporary nature and then return back to the nation once the crisis has passed. This is why adjacent countries which can provide safe harbor are ideal and mandated by law.

You're seriously trying to compare state sanctioned racial superiority with state mandated secular educaton, with indviduals free to practice whatever they choose at home or in church?

 

[Ernie S.]

I have the right to use my vote any way I see fit - as do you and I suspect I would not agree with all your choices or the costs they might incur.

No, you don't and neither do I. You and I are in a compact, we're co-citizens to each other. When we vote we should be voting on our own vision of what is best for America, instead of using the vote to bolster our own self-images or to help foreigners at the expense of our co-citizens.

Exactly. And the fact that you and I disagree with what is best for America does not give you the right to tell me what I should or should not be doing with my vote.

The fact that you feel you have some right to bind me to provide care for foreigners, especially when I object to doing so and most especially when I suggest a way that you can help the foreigners (sell your car) without involving me, is very troubling.

What's very troubling is that you seem to think you have a right to force *your* vision of what is best for America onto me and take away my right to vote on *my* vision.

It's my vote, not yours.

I may not and likely DO NOT agree with your vision but I won't deny your right to vote it.

We don't want to affect your vote at all. The point is, this whole situation is bullshit. There should be no vote, no controversy at all. There should be no refugees allowed to cross the border, period. We have a Constitution that defines what OUR government does for US. Nowhere in there is a section about what our government should do for Guatemalan citizens.
If you want to support these kids, by all means, go right ahead. If you want me to, amend the Constitution.

 

[Ravi]

Germans are white?

 

[blackhawk]

So how do we determine who the law applies to without a hearing? What do we do with these refugees until then?

Have the border patrol interview them those who have proof they came here for the reasons stated in the 2008 stay those who came because they believed they would be allowed to stay the reason many have given for coming you send back what you don't do is give the entire group blanket amnesty.

The Border Patrol carries out the law, it doesn't administer it. Every single one of these children is entitled to a hearing under the law.

No their not and again these are not all young children.

 

[Coyote]

No, you don't and neither do I. You and I are in a compact, we're co-citizens to each other. When we vote we should be voting on our own vision of what is best for America, instead of using the vote to bolster our own self-images or to help foreigners at the expense of our co-citizens.

Exactly. And the fact that you and I disagree with what is best for America does not give you the right to tell me what I should or should not be doing with my vote.

The fact that you feel you have some right to bind me to provide care for foreigners, especially when I object to doing so and most especially when I suggest a way that you can help the foreigners (sell your car) without involving me, is very troubling.

What's very troubling is that you seem to think you have a right to force *your* vision of what is best for America onto me and take away my right to vote on *my* vision.

It's my vote, not yours.

I may not and likely DO NOT agree with your vision but I won't deny your right to vote it.

We don't want to affect your vote at all. The point is, this whole situation is bullshit. There should be no vote, no controversy at all. There should be no refugees allowed to cross the border, period. We have a Constitution that defines what OUR government does for US. Nowhere in there is a section about what our government should do for Guatemalan citizens.
If you want to support these kids, by all means, go right ahead. If you want me to, amend the Constitution.

Sure you do. You're trying to tell me what I can and can not vote to support despite the fact that I suspect I'm paying for a lot of stuff others have voted for that I don't support. Immigration is the affair of our government.

 

[bendog]

Have the border patrol interview them those who have proof they came here for the reasons stated in the 2008 stay those who came because they believed they would be allowed to stay the reason many have given for coming you send back what you don't do is give the entire group blanket amnesty.

The Border Patrol carries out the law, it doesn't administer it. Every single one of these children is entitled to a hearing under the law.

No their not and again these are not all young children.

Actually, they are entitled to a hearing, esp if they claim refugee status

Asylum Claims & Eligibility - FindLaw

 

[westwall]

They can choose to move to any EU country. Why would they be extradited if they chose to move?

There are also closer non-EU countries: Russia, Belarus, Serbia etc - it was already pointed out that they aren't allowed to be picky.

Asylum vs refugee status The EU won't grant asylum for citizens of other EU countries.
Eastern European countries are not all that compatible with German Lutherans or Roman Catholics. Serbia for instance is about 4% Roman Catholic and about 1% all Protestant denominations. These people speak English, likely not Serbian or Russian.
Again, you seek asylum where you'll likely be granted it and refugee status in the first safe place.

Why do they need asylum - they simply need a country that allows them to homeschool the way they want. What evidence is there they tried to find someplace closer? They applied for a visa here then stayed illegally when it expired yet there was no outcry.

All of those countries can offer what they need and are much closer. They don't need to come to the US. They can learn whatever language is needed. That is what we require of foreign speakers after all.

It just seems to me that the difference is really one of different standards. These central American kids are labeled criminals without a thought. The German family is not.

Actually....based on first hand knowledge, the German family would be loaded up and shipped back to Germany PDQ, for the most part. There are exceptions but they are very rare... The latinos on the other hand are allowed to walk out with a ticket for their hearing...the majority of which never go.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The Border Patrol carries out the law, it doesn't administer it. Every single one of these children is entitled to a hearing under the law.

No their not and again these are not all young children.

Actually, they are entitled to a hearing, esp if they claim refugee status

Asylum Claims & Eligibility - FindLaw

Here's a happy compromise. We ship everyone back to some camp that we establish in their country and that is where we send a judge to preside over the hearing.

You get your hearing and I get them out of my country.

 

[blackhawk]

No their not and again these are not all young children.

Actually, they are entitled to a hearing, esp if they claim refugee status

Asylum Claims & Eligibility - FindLaw

Here's a happy compromise. We ship everyone back to some camp that we establish in their country and that is where we send a judge to preside over the hearing.

You get your hearing and I get them out of my country.

Deal.

 

[Coyote]

Asylum vs refugee status The EU won't grant asylum for citizens of other EU countries.
Eastern European countries are not all that compatible with German Lutherans or Roman Catholics. Serbia for instance is about 4% Roman Catholic and about 1% all Protestant denominations. These people speak English, likely not Serbian or Russian.
Again, you seek asylum where you'll likely be granted it and refugee status in the first safe place.

Why do they need asylum - they simply need a country that allows them to homeschool the way they want. What evidence is there they tried to find someplace closer? They applied for a visa here then stayed illegally when it expired yet there was no outcry.

All of those countries can offer what they need and are much closer. They don't need to come to the US. They can learn whatever language is needed. That is what we require of foreign speakers after all.

It just seems to me that the difference is really one of different standards. These central American kids are labeled criminals without a thought. The German family is not.

Actually....based on first hand knowledge, the German family would be loaded up and shipped back to Germany PDQ, for the most part. There are exceptions but they are very rare... The latinos on the other hand are allowed to walk out with a ticket for their hearing...the majority of which never go.

But the WERE NOT.

And they were not demonized.

Why?

 

[OKTexas]

They can choose to move to any EU country. Why would they be extradited if they chose to move?

There are also closer non-EU countries: Russia, Belarus, Serbia etc - it was already pointed out that they aren't allowed to be picky.

Asylum vs refugee status The EU won't grant asylum for citizens of other EU countries.
Eastern European countries are not all that compatible with German Lutherans or Roman Catholics. Serbia for instance is about 4% Roman Catholic and about 1% all Protestant denominations. These people speak English, likely not Serbian or Russian.
Again, you seek asylum where you'll likely be granted it and refugee status in the first safe place.

Why do they need asylum - they simply need a country that allows them to homeschool the way they want. What evidence is there they tried to find someplace closer? They applied for a visa here then stayed illegally when it expired yet there was no outcry.

All of those countries can offer what they need and are much closer. They don't need to come to the US. They can learn whatever language is needed. That is what we require of foreign speakers after all.

It just seems to me that the difference is really one of different standards. These central American kids are labeled criminals without a thought. The German family is not.

You haven't spent much time in border States have you. I saw a man interviewed on local new in Houston, he had been in the US 23 years illegally, he had to speak through an interpreter. We don't require anybody to learn anything, they live in their own enclaves where there's no need to learn the language and if they need an interpreter they usually use their children.

 

[OKTexas]

So...who merits refugee status?

According to the political Right, this family's "travails" galvanized vociferous actions to grant them refugee status. And for what reason? They weren't politically or economically oppressed. They weren't persecuted for religious reasons. Their lives weren't in danger. Their home country had a law against home schooling. That was it.

German home-school family can stay in U.S. indefinitely - Washington Times


Then, you have the plight of thousands of children fleeing atrocities in Central America: murder, gangs, human trafficking and child rape.

The awful reason tens of thousands of children are seeking refuge in the United States - Vox


These are the people that the Republicans want to alter our laws so that we can more quickly deport them back to the violence from which they fled.

It's crazy.

Immigration poll reveals partisan rift over Central American refugees | World news | theguardian.com
70% of Republicans believe these children should NOT be treated as refugees and granted assylum. But this home-schooling family should. WHY?

False equivalences and outright lies, good propaganda there comrade. Border Patrol interviews are saying 95% of these so called kids came because they were promised a free pass and nothing else. Children who come in with an adult are eligible for immediate deportation, why isn't your dear leader following the law?

Do you have a source showing those statistics?

There's a Homeland Security and Border Patrol report, it has been linked several times on this board, look it up. You're supposed to know the subject before you start spouting off about it.

 

[Coyote]

Asylum vs refugee status The EU won't grant asylum for citizens of other EU countries.
Eastern European countries are not all that compatible with German Lutherans or Roman Catholics. Serbia for instance is about 4% Roman Catholic and about 1% all Protestant denominations. These people speak English, likely not Serbian or Russian.
Again, you seek asylum where you'll likely be granted it and refugee status in the first safe place.

Why do they need asylum - they simply need a country that allows them to homeschool the way they want. What evidence is there they tried to find someplace closer? They applied for a visa here then stayed illegally when it expired yet there was no outcry.

All of those countries can offer what they need and are much closer. They don't need to come to the US. They can learn whatever language is needed. That is what we require of foreign speakers after all.

It just seems to me that the difference is really one of different standards. These central American kids are labeled criminals without a thought. The German family is not.

You haven't spent much time in border States have you. I saw a man interviewed on local new in Houston, he had been in the US 23 years illegally, he had to speak through an interpreter. We don't require anybody to learn anything, they live in their own enclaves where there's no need to learn the language and if they need an interpreter they usually use their children.

Possibly quite true. But here is the thing: it is no different than preceding generations of immigrants. When there was a huge wave of East European Jewish Immigrants or Italian immigrants or Chinese Immigrants they were met with the same hostility and the same rhetoric. They had their enclaves and they had their local language press. But the thing is - their children became fluent in English and in American customs. There is no difference between then and now...and sadly, no difference in rhetoric.