Every argument you make is a moral argument. I love that.
Zone1 Reasons why atheists don't want to believe there is a God
- Thread starter Midnight FM
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Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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Jesus likened God's forgiveness to a story about a debtor who could not repay what he owed over his entire life, so his master forgave him the entire debt. Before his followers could start whooping it up over how completely their sins would be forgiven, Jesus continued. The original debtor then went out and demanded those who owed him pay him on the spot or be thrown in prison. Hearing of this, the master of that original debtor handed him over until he paid back the last bit. Jesus warned, "So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."
Do either you or 0311 recall how completely Christians are called upon to forgive?
How about you: 0311 elected not to answer if he could forgive President Trump for the angst the President's past morality has/is causing him. Can you forgive President Trump for the angst his past moral behavior has burdened you?
LuckyDuck01!
Diamond Member
1. There are approximately 4,000 to 5,000 recognized religions in the world.
2. Each one of the religions, insist that "theirs" is the one true religion and the others are false.
3. It is said that Hinduism, is the first "known" religion. It is a polytheistic religion with 1.2 billion (that's with a "B") worshippers. They too claim theirs is the true religion.
4. Religions that "may" actually be older than Hinduism, are the tribal Animist or world of spirits in things like trees, rocks, et cetera. Some still hold to them.
5. One thing they all hold in common, are the vast, vast majority of them were created in eras in which the world was filled with primitive peoples harboring copious amounts of superstitious ideas and had little to no science in their understanding of the world and universe.
6. As intelligence and science progressed, many things considered the works of invisible deities and that lights in the night sky were departed human souls, were revealed to have actual scientific explanations.
7. The primitive peoples feared death and didn't want life to end, concocting stories of afterlives to appease those fears, or in some cases, reincarnation to come back again as people or other living things.
8. Not knowing about weather pattern changes, some turned to sacrificing living things, including people to appease the imaginary deities
9. The Abrahamic religions are just a broad group of three religions that needed to create something for the people to fear, even after death, in an effort to control them. Actual events of their eras, combined with moralistic tales, written down and preached to the superstitious people ensured relatively cohesive rule abiding societies.
As to Atheists, so far, all we've seen are most often explained by science. That doesn't mean we don't have what you would call morals. I like most others, don't like our material things to be stolen, thus, it also means, we don't believe others should have their things stolen. We don't want to be beaten or murdered, so we believe that others shouldn't be beaten or murdered. We believe that laws are important to maintain cohesive societies and reduce endangering the populace.
We honor/respect our father and mother, IF they are not complete douchebags. Most of us believe that the truth is important, not because of some so-called holy book, but because we would like to hear honesty from those that we meet. We do excuse what they call little-white lies, so as to not hurt someone's feelings.
As to adultery, if you have sworn to be faithful to another person, you should keep your word. However, even the religious crowd breaks their own rule on that.
No day to us is holy. Period.
Fort Fun Indiana
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God can forgive you after the spanking.
But youre the one who has to live forever knowing you voted for a rapist felon pederast pimp. That's a loooong time. I wonder of others will bring it up to you frequently?
Can you forgive the conman Jesus dude for tricking you into thinking he rose from the dead and is now a zombie king? Trolling is fun, eh?
Do i forgive trump for the rape and trafficking of minors in his spa? Nope.
But that's awfully cute of you to talk about my angst. Maybe you should focus more on the angst of his victims.
Meriweather
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They didn't bring up the topic of their angst with me. You did.
Fort Fun Indiana
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You brought up my angst. Let's keep it honest.
Meriweather
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Post #120
BreezeWood
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nothing shocking for what is earned through self determination -
than those that read a book of forgeries lies and fallacies they use to persecute and victimize the innocent what happily is in store for them ...
Fort Fun Indiana
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Not a word about anyone's angst in that post.
I am puzzled how someone with such an apparently strong moral basis is so pleased with the inhumane cruelty being committed.
In the end, I think a lot of MAGAts are duplicitous. It's the only way one could function with such obvious dissonance.
BreezeWood
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same as today -
they have little restraint to control their evil as done so in the name of their religion.
Meriweather
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You believe you are speaking kindly of the President?
Fort Fun Indiana
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You believe what he is doing is not inhumane and cruel? Then your morality sucks, and you should stop to question yourself and your religion.
Fort Fun Indiana
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And just to clarify:
A lot of Christians DO think what he is doing is inhumane and cruel.
For a lot of them, that's exactly why they like it.
frigidweirdo
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You equate thinking there's a god with being moral?
Plenty of immoral religious people out there. How many wars were started by religious people? Dubya started the Iraq War in 2003 with false information... he claimed to be religious.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
^ Your opinion, and you are entitled to it, why then can't we have the same allowance to voice our opinion without your rancor?
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The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
And yet, both of FM's points have validity...
Fort Fun Indiana
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They aren't actually "points". They are just claims. And they are hilariously false, barring some huge, uncontacted tribe of atheists he is talking about.
The atheist has confronted what happens when they die much more thoroughly and honestly than has any theist who has faith in an afterlife. Heck, lots of theists believe people can literally come back from the dead. They literally believe in zombies.
No, the typical atheist has faced and is able to assimilate the facts right in front of their faces. That's not the easy way out. Rejecting clear facts and just believing you will live forever in a forgiving god's grace is the easy way out. Very lazy. And someone else bearing the negative consequence of your sin? Even lazier, and deeply immoral.
Thanks for the confirmation that no one is less qualified to list reasons why atheists don't believe there is a God than a theist.
Meriweather
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It seems a human condition. Theists telling atheists why they "really" don't believe; atheists telling people of faith they are imagining it all; non-Catholics telling Catholics what they are "really" doing; Catholics never keeping up with what non-Catholic denomination believes what. Worst of all...everything from every side coming across as vicious, whether that's the intention or not.
Humans are creatures of education. Today's humans are forced into a secular education since childhood (kindergarten+5 years of primary+6 years of secondary+4 years of college). Now what do you expect? (the devil works hard on this)
The correct line of reasoning;
Humans are creatures of preparing a future. You need a job for tomorrow's living. You join a pension simply because you need money after retired. Some governments even force you by laws to join a pension once you've got a job, just in case you don't know how to prepare for your own future.
It boils down to what "future" could mean. It divides into two parts. The part before death can be speculated by humans while the part beyond death is not for humans to speculate. Through education a misconception has been introduced (by the devil, what else can you say?) while smart humans are fooled (by our brainwashing education as directed by the devil on even the smartest humankind). "No evidence" is the best argument atheists can offer. Evidence however can only be available if humans are capable of acquiring it. Humans are capable of acquiring evidence on planet earth to rule out the possibility that red unicorn doesn't exist. We are capable of searching every single corner of planet earth to ensure that there's no room for unicorn's existence (plus that unicorn, exists of not, doesn't affect our death and life).
Afterlife is apparently something else, it's out of our reach. We don't have the ability to search every corner for its existence. Our science is futile either (not acceptable to some atheists), it's because science is experiment based while it's out of human capability to go outside of our own space (to the spiritual realm) to do experiments. That is to say, even when afterlife is a simple existence, it's still out of human capability to detect its existence. It's not a red unicorn situation the atheists might have assumed.
The magic man argument;
It's another human misunderstanding. When God tried to communicate with an eyewitness (the OT prophets), He used prophesies and miracles as a mean of communication. It is so because it's out of human ability to do two things, 1) to tell a future, and 2) to break the physics governing our living environment. God, in order to show a prophet that He's truly God, chooses to use prophesies (foretell a future), and miracles (breaking usual physics) such that the prophet who encountered God knows that it's fore real. God even grant such abilities to the prophets such that Israel, that is God's chosen people, can reckon the prophets as from God and to record down their deeds and words. Ancient Israelites identify the eyewitnesses first and foremost by their ability to tell a future. That's why the eyewitnesses are called prophets (men capable of telling a future). Together with their personality of righteousness, Israelites would reckon them as the prophets from God.
"Magic" is a necessity of communication! This way is chosen for a reason. It communicates with direct eyewitnesses effectively while serving the bigger scope of demands, that is human faith is invited under all circumstances. That's why even when Paul experienced through tons of miracles, including the supernatural event in Damascus, he can still claim that he fought a fight of faith as God demands faith even from a prophet.
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