Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

EDIT - If anyone is unfamiliar with Isaiah 9:6, here it is:

Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
(6)For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[irosie91]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

I do not see how Isaiah 9:6 ---indicates "trinity". If you read a bit more of Isaiah----he theorizes a messiah as a POLITICAL LEADER-----essentially replacing
a king who ushers in the "MESSIANIC ERA" which is---all that "beat swords into
plowshares" ---stuff. Isaiah wrote in Hebrew------got the Hebrew version? I think
that your translation has you a bit confused. What word in Hebrew is used for that
"god" thing? I read some of Isaiah in Hebrew (as well as I could) The messiah
is never described as "GOD" ------ words that translate into "father" and "lord"----
from Hebrew do not all mean "God" In semitc languages the word for "father" ---
can just mean-----THE BIG TIME LEADER---or even just an honorific for the local big shot. In Arabic it comes as "ABU" this or that

 

[hadit]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Post #1 has been edited just to let you know (haha.)

 

[irosie91]

Post #1 has been edited just to let you know (haha.)

I still need it in Hebrew. the name ELI-----means "my god"-----does that make
people named "eli" "god" ??? the name caleb means dog-------caleb was
not a dog. I think that the translation is a little misleading

 

[kjw47]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

EDIT - If anyone is unfamiliar with Isaiah 9:6, here it is:

Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
(6)For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

If you read it correctly---Jesus'--NAME-- will be called those things--it is not saying Jesus himself will be those things. There is a big difference.
Jesus taught--John 17:1-6,26--- the one who sent him( John 5:30-Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) , 26= YHWH( Jehovah)-- (making this reality of what a true follower does--John 4:22-24.

 

[kjw47]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

 

[hadit]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

All of those scriptures reference One who calls Himself the First and the Last. In Isaiah, it is clearly God referring to Himself. In Revelation, it is Jesus referring to Himself. JW's thus are faced with either admitting that Jesus is actually God or a liar. I don't think they want to say either one.

 

[GiveMeATicketToWork]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

EDIT - If anyone is unfamiliar with Isaiah 9:6, here it is:

Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
(6)For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

If you read it correctly---Jesus'--NAME-- will be called those things--it is not saying Jesus himself will be those things. There is a big difference.
Jesus taught--John 17:1-6,26--- the one who sent him( John 5:30-Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) , 26= YHWH( Jehovah)-- (making this reality of what a true follower does--John 4:22-24.

Thank you. That makes sense if John 14:28 says:

John 14:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
(28)You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, FOR THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

 

[kjw47]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

All of those scriptures reference One who calls Himself the First and the Last. In Isaiah, it is clearly God referring to Himself. In Revelation, it is Jesus referring to Himself. JW's thus are faced with either admitting that Jesus is actually God or a liar. I don't think they want to say either one.

3 speak in revelation--Jehovah, Jesus and John. See rev 1:1-- a Rev given to Jesus by God( did he give it to himself?) Did he sit at his own right hand? Did he pray to himself? = NO --this is the true God= John 4:22-24--and Jesus taught that--John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- as well as Paul-2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--Peter at 1Peter 1:3, and John at Rev 1:6--- anyone teaching something different are teaching dogmas of men. The true gospel of what was taught is right above--4 witnesses to truth.

 

[kjw47]

Hi.

I tried searching your site but I didn't find an answer, how do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile Isaiah 9:6 to their (or your) being nontrinitarians?

EDIT - If anyone is unfamiliar with Isaiah 9:6, here it is:

Isaiah 9:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
(6)For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

If you read it correctly---Jesus'--NAME-- will be called those things--it is not saying Jesus himself will be those things. There is a big difference.
Jesus taught--John 17:1-6,26--- the one who sent him( John 5:30-Father) is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) , 26= YHWH( Jehovah)-- (making this reality of what a true follower does--John 4:22-24.

Thank you. That makes sense if John 14:28 says:

John 14:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
(28)You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, FOR THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Yes, one should always believe Jesus' words first.

 

[HaShev]

I'm not a JW, but asking a Jew and a historian would help you more.
Isaiah 9 is about a sign for King Ahaz 600 years before the Jesus myth. The time is during their conflict with the Assyrians which is in THE FULL Context of Isaiah in which case King Hezekiah Ahaz's son is the son having his father's kingdom upon his shoulder, "prince of peace" for defeating Assyria having God with him (Emmanuel) and becoming a Father Figure.
In others words the father of lies has lied to you, and thus 1/3 were deceived & lead to worship
the image they created with these lies.
That's why you are told that you will take hold of the garment of a Jew-or Rabbi and ask us about our God.

 

[hadit]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

All of those scriptures reference One who calls Himself the First and the Last. In Isaiah, it is clearly God referring to Himself. In Revelation, it is Jesus referring to Himself. JW's thus are faced with either admitting that Jesus is actually God or a liar. I don't think they want to say either one.

3 speak in revelation--Jehovah, Jesus and John. See rev 1:1-- a Rev given to Jesus by God( did he give it to himself?) Did he sit at his own right hand? Did he pray to himself? = NO --this is the true God= John 4:22-24--and Jesus taught that--John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- as well as Paul-2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--Peter at 1Peter 1:3, and John at Rev 1:6--- anyone teaching something different are teaching dogmas of men. The true gospel of what was taught is right above--4 witnesses to truth.

Jesus called Himself the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. God also called Himself that. Jesus called Himself God.

 

[hadit]

I'm not a JW, but asking a Jew and a historian would help you more.
Isaiah 9 is about a sign for King Ahaz 600 years before the Jesus myth. The time is during their conflict with the Assyrians which is in THE FULL Context of Isaiah in which case King Hezekiah Ahaz's son is the son having his father's kingdom upon his shoulder, "prince of peace" for defeating Assyria having God with him (Emmanuel) and becoming a Father Figure.
In others words the father of lies has lied to you, and thus 1/3 were deceived & lead to worship
the image they created with these lies.
That's why you are told that you will take hold of the garment of a Jew-or Rabbi and ask us about our God.

Daniel prophesied Messiah's revealing to the day.

 

[HaShev]

Daniel prophesied Messiah's revealing to the day.

That is a mistake and lie, making you gullible through lack of historical knowledge and refusal in reading specific words as they are written, not as they want to lead you into reading it.

Dan 9
Let's review the Mistake:
The events Daniel is prophecizing already occured before Jesus and the events of the temple you propose occured after Jesus making the correlation impossible even if you avoided history and thought it didn’t occur yet.
Daniel is talking about "an anointed place" and an anointed (King) not THE ANOINTED ONE.
Now to review why these events already occured:

Dan 9: There is a 7-week (49-year) span between the actual destruction of Jerusalem in 586 (beginning the exile and realizing the decree in 538bc to rebuild), and the end of the exile brought about by the arrival of ‘AN’ anointed one not “THE” anointed one . Kings and High Priests were anointed as AN anointed one but not THE anointed one. Thus we must notice the wording is “an anointed one” not “THE” anointed one.

Dan 9:24 says anoint the holy place not an anointed man. Daniel 9:25 says, "from the time the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was issued, until AN annointed one, a ruler, it will be seven weeks". If the decree is indeed sometime around the beginning of the full Exile, 586 b.c.e., then who is the anointed one mentioned? And, GOD already has referred to ruler Cyrus as his Anointed in
Isaiah 45:1: 70 years after the destruction Cyrus rebuilt the Temple in other words it's completion in 516BC
Here's the reference of this ‘70 years’ by the Historian Josephus in Antiquities 11.1.1: Ant. 11.1.1 "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they has served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that SERVITUDE seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity; and these things God did afford them."


Daniel 9:26
And after the sixty-two weeks,an anointed one will be cut off,
and there will be nothing to him.
and the people of a ruler who shall come
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,
and the end of it/him shall be with a flood,,
and, until the end of the war, desolations are decreed.

62 weeks (434 years) leads us to around 152 b.c.e. the time of antiochus desolation and destruction of the temple. The anointed one was the king who was cut off. High Priest Onias III, who was assasinated (cut off) in 171 b.c.e. In 168 b.c.e., the middle of the next "week" of years (171-165 b.c.e.), ruler Antiochus IV (who had Onias killed) pillaged Jerusalem. Antiochus IV matches the "ruler to come",

Now who is the Moshiach?
Dan 12:1-4 says Michael rises to save Israel the same redeemer (HaSheva) who saves
Judah in Jeremiah 23:5-6

Dan CHAPTER TEN Verse 13: But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and remained there by the king of the Persians (Cyrus).

**Michael is dealing with Cyrus** thus who is Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 calling LORD(King/head of hosts) AND REDEEMER(HaSheva)?

Verse 20: And the angel said: "Do you know where I came from?" And now will
*Hashev* Lacham Sar Parac"(HaShev fight the prince of Persia).

Verse 21: But I will tell thee what is set down in the scripture of truth: and none is my helper in all these things, but Michael your prince.

1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus.
Isaiah 44:24-28 and 45,
the Redeemer (HaSheva)caused Cyrus' heart to change to do the Moshiach roles of delivering the people gathering them, rebuilding the temple etc.
Dan 10 shows this was Michael HaShev who worked on Cyrus' heart doing all the anointed roles, not Jesus.

Check Mate!

 

[hadit]

Daniel prophesied Messiah's revealing to the day.

That is a mistake and lie, making you gullible through lack of historical knowledge and refusal in reading specific words as they are written, not as they want to lead you into reading it.

Dan 9
Let's review the Mistake:
The events Daniel is prophecizing already occured before Jesus and the events of the temple you propose occured after Jesus making the correlation impossible even if you avoided history and thought it didn’t occur yet.
Daniel is talking about "an anointed place" and an anointed (King) not THE ANOINTED ONE.
Now to review why these events already occured:

Dan 9: There is a 7-week (49-year) span between the actual destruction of Jerusalem in 586 (beginning the exile and realizing the decree in 538bc to rebuild), and the end of the exile brought about by the arrival of ‘AN’ anointed one not “THE” anointed one . Kings and High Priests were anointed as AN anointed one but not THE anointed one. Thus we must notice the wording is “an anointed one” not “THE” anointed one.

Dan 9:24 says anoint the holy place not an anointed man. Daniel 9:25 says, "from the time the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was issued, until AN annointed one, a ruler, it will be seven weeks". If the decree is indeed sometime around the beginning of the full Exile, 586 b.c.e., then who is the anointed one mentioned? And, GOD already has referred to ruler Cyrus as his Anointed in
Isaiah 45:1: 70 years after the destruction Cyrus rebuilt the Temple in other words it's completion in 516BC
Here's the reference of this ‘70 years’ by the Historian Josephus in Antiquities 11.1.1: Ant. 11.1.1 "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they has served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that SERVITUDE seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity; and these things God did afford them."


Daniel 9:26
And after the sixty-two weeks,an anointed one will be cut off,
and there will be nothing to him.
and the people of a ruler who shall come
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,
and the end of it/him shall be with a flood,,
and, until the end of the war, desolations are decreed.

62 weeks (434 years) leads us to around 152 b.c.e. the time of antiochus desolation and destruction of the temple. The anointed one was the king who was cut off. High Priest Onias III, who was assasinated (cut off) in 171 b.c.e. In 168 b.c.e., the middle of the next "week" of years (171-165 b.c.e.), ruler Antiochus IV (who had Onias killed) pillaged Jerusalem. Antiochus IV matches the "ruler to come",

Now who is the Moshiach?
Dan 12:1-4 says Michael rises to save Israel the same redeemer (HaSheva) who saves
Judah in Jeremiah 23:5-6

Dan CHAPTER TEN Verse 13: But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and remained there by the king of the Persians (Cyrus).

**Michael is dealing with Cyrus** thus who is Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 calling LORD(King/head of hosts) AND REDEEMER(HaSheva)?

Verse 20: And the angel said: "Do you know where I came from?" And now will
*Hashev* Lacham Sar Parac"(HaShev fight the prince of Persia).

Verse 21: But I will tell thee what is set down in the scripture of truth: and none is my helper in all these things, but Michael your prince.

1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus.
Isaiah 44:24-28 and 45,
the Redeemer (HaSheva)caused Cyrus' heart to change to do the Moshiach roles of delivering the people gathering them, rebuilding the temple etc.
Dan 10 shows this was Michael HaShev who worked on Cyrus' heart doing all the anointed roles, not Jesus.

Check Mate!

The calendar that Daniel was using didn't have 365 1/4 days in it. Your numbers are wrong.

 

[hobelim]

Daniel prophesied Messiah's revealing to the day.

That is a mistake and lie, making you gullible through lack of historical knowledge and refusal in reading specific words as they are written, not as they want to lead you into reading it.

Dan 9
Let's review the Mistake:
The events Daniel is prophecizing already occured before Jesus and the events of the temple you propose occured after Jesus making the correlation impossible even if you avoided history and thought it didn’t occur yet.
Daniel is talking about "an anointed place" and an anointed (King) not THE ANOINTED ONE.
Now to review why these events already occured:

Dan 9: There is a 7-week (49-year) span between the actual destruction of Jerusalem in 586 (beginning the exile and realizing the decree in 538bc to rebuild), and the end of the exile brought about by the arrival of ‘AN’ anointed one not “THE” anointed one . Kings and High Priests were anointed as AN anointed one but not THE anointed one. Thus we must notice the wording is “an anointed one” not “THE” anointed one.

Dan 9:24 says anoint the holy place not an anointed man. Daniel 9:25 says, "from the time the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was issued, until AN annointed one, a ruler, it will be seven weeks". If the decree is indeed sometime around the beginning of the full Exile, 586 b.c.e., then who is the anointed one mentioned? And, GOD already has referred to ruler Cyrus as his Anointed in
Isaiah 45:1: 70 years after the destruction Cyrus rebuilt the Temple in other words it's completion in 516BC
Here's the reference of this ‘70 years’ by the Historian Josephus in Antiquities 11.1.1: Ant. 11.1.1 "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they has served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that SERVITUDE seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity; and these things God did afford them."


Daniel 9:26
And after the sixty-two weeks,an anointed one will be cut off,
and there will be nothing to him.
and the people of a ruler who shall come
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,
and the end of it/him shall be with a flood,,
and, until the end of the war, desolations are decreed.

62 weeks (434 years) leads us to around 152 b.c.e. the time of antiochus desolation and destruction of the temple. The anointed one was the king who was cut off. High Priest Onias III, who was assasinated (cut off) in 171 b.c.e. In 168 b.c.e., the middle of the next "week" of years (171-165 b.c.e.), ruler Antiochus IV (who had Onias killed) pillaged Jerusalem. Antiochus IV matches the "ruler to come",

Now who is the Moshiach?
Dan 12:1-4 says Michael rises to save Israel the same redeemer (HaSheva) who saves
Judah in Jeremiah 23:5-6

Dan CHAPTER TEN Verse 13: But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and remained there by the king of the Persians (Cyrus).

**Michael is dealing with Cyrus** thus who is Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 calling LORD(King/head of hosts) AND REDEEMER(HaSheva)?

Verse 20: And the angel said: "Do you know where I came from?" And now will
*Hashev* Lacham Sar Parac"(HaShev fight the prince of Persia).

Verse 21: But I will tell thee what is set down in the scripture of truth: and none is my helper in all these things, but Michael your prince.

1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus.
Isaiah 44:24-28 and 45,
the Redeemer (HaSheva)caused Cyrus' heart to change to do the Moshiach roles of delivering the people gathering them, rebuilding the temple etc.
Dan 10 shows this was Michael HaShev who worked on Cyrus' heart doing all the anointed roles, not Jesus.

Check Mate!

The calendar that Daniel was using didn't have 365 1/4 days in it. Your numbers are wrong.

He's all caught up in the name Michael because its his name and he thinks he is the messiah. He is delusional. He doesn't seem to care that the name Michael isn't any more relevant than the name emmanuel in Isaiah 9:6 which he admits was a prophecy about Hezekiah even though Hezekiah was never called emmanuel, mighty God, everlasting father, wonderful counselor, or the prince of peace.

 

[HaShev]

Daniel prophesied Messiah's revealing to the day.

That is a mistake and lie, making you gullible through lack of historical knowledge and refusal in reading specific words as they are written, not as they want to lead you into reading it.

Dan 9
Let's review the Mistake:
The events Daniel is prophecizing already occured before Jesus and the events of the temple you propose occured after Jesus making the correlation impossible even if you avoided history and thought it didn’t occur yet.
Daniel is talking about "an anointed place" and an anointed (King) not THE ANOINTED ONE.
Now to review why these events already occured:

Dan 9: There is a 7-week (49-year) span between the actual destruction of Jerusalem in 586 (beginning the exile and realizing the decree in 538bc to rebuild), and the end of the exile brought about by the arrival of ‘AN’ anointed one not “THE” anointed one . Kings and High Priests were anointed as AN anointed one but not THE anointed one. Thus we must notice the wording is “an anointed one” not “THE” anointed one.

Dan 9:24 says anoint the holy place not an anointed man. Daniel 9:25 says, "from the time the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was issued, until AN annointed one, a ruler, it will be seven weeks". If the decree is indeed sometime around the beginning of the full Exile, 586 b.c.e., then who is the anointed one mentioned? And, GOD already has referred to ruler Cyrus as his Anointed in
Isaiah 45:1: 70 years after the destruction Cyrus rebuilt the Temple in other words it's completion in 516BC
Here's the reference of this ‘70 years’ by the Historian Josephus in Antiquities 11.1.1: Ant. 11.1.1 "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they has served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that SERVITUDE seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity; and these things God did afford them."


Daniel 9:26
And after the sixty-two weeks,an anointed one will be cut off,
and there will be nothing to him.
and the people of a ruler who shall come
shall destroy the city and the sanctuary,
and the end of it/him shall be with a flood,,
and, until the end of the war, desolations are decreed.

62 weeks (434 years) leads us to around 152 b.c.e. the time of antiochus desolation and destruction of the temple. The anointed one was the king who was cut off. High Priest Onias III, who was assasinated (cut off) in 171 b.c.e. In 168 b.c.e., the middle of the next "week" of years (171-165 b.c.e.), ruler Antiochus IV (who had Onias killed) pillaged Jerusalem. Antiochus IV matches the "ruler to come",

Now who is the Moshiach?
Dan 12:1-4 says Michael rises to save Israel the same redeemer (HaSheva) who saves
Judah in Jeremiah 23:5-6

Dan CHAPTER TEN Verse 13: But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and remained there by the king of the Persians (Cyrus).

**Michael is dealing with Cyrus** thus who is Ezra 1 and Isaiah 44-45 calling LORD(King/head of hosts) AND REDEEMER(HaSheva)?

Verse 20: And the angel said: "Do you know where I came from?" And now will
*Hashev* Lacham Sar Parac"(HaShev fight the prince of Persia).

Verse 21: But I will tell thee what is set down in the scripture of truth: and none is my helper in all these things, but Michael your prince.

1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus.
Isaiah 44:24-28 and 45,
the Redeemer (HaSheva)caused Cyrus' heart to change to do the Moshiach roles of delivering the people gathering them, rebuilding the temple etc.
Dan 10 shows this was Michael HaShev who worked on Cyrus' heart doing all the anointed roles, not Jesus.

Check Mate!

The calendar that Daniel was using didn't have 365 1/4 days in it. Your numbers are wrong.

Ummmm is the message coming from the ancient world or from "the world to come" that has 365 1/4 days? What part of my parenthesis was so difficult to understand in Dan 10:20 ""Do you know where I came from?"
Then use your excuse to ask yourself, none of the context or events or names fit Jesus and his era=their assertions are wrong.
Which brings us to Hobelims comments about names.
Son in Isaiah: Isaiah 7:3 the son Isaiah is refering to is named Shear ‘Yshv’ (proper transliteration (pronounced hashev=return because Y=H sound) Shear ‘Yshv’ means a remnant shall ‘return’ (HaShev). If they claim This son holds the name of Moshiach to bad that name is HaShev and not Jesus. Once again this is mentioned in Isaiah 10:21-22
So if you swear Isaiah is about the Moshiach then you have me or Haifa's Chief Rabbi She'ar-Yashuv Cohen in those verses, but nowhere do you find Jesus.

HOBELIM'S christ's name Y'shu, is the wrong christ he is tagging history to (Theudas). Hobelim and Jesus follower's christs are not in the prerequisite name.
By saying I am not qualifoed is to say Jesus definitely can't be qualified (hence the term Check Mate!) Calling me insane means you are calling Jesus insane and followers insane since it's your own standard used and failed, thus the term; "Check Mate!"

Lastly the name alone isn't why I am that I am, it's just a means to identify and help
return(HaShev) to one's inheritence.
It's embedded for a reason, one which Hpbelim, pastors,priests, & churches fail to explain.
Something Christian's don't understand, but
Celtic lores divulge anyway in hopes one day it will come to light.

Celtic lore Source:
The anointed Stone of the Covenant, which became known as Lia Fail (Stone of Destiny),
and is said to be inscribed has an interesting story upon it that matches the Biblical ones.
The Columbian tradition tells us that, on secreting the Stone, the Abbot
prophesied that one day 'The Michael' would return to his inheritance."

 

[kjw47]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

All of those scriptures reference One who calls Himself the First and the Last. In Isaiah, it is clearly God referring to Himself. In Revelation, it is Jesus referring to Himself. JW's thus are faced with either admitting that Jesus is actually God or a liar. I don't think they want to say either one.

3 speak in revelation--Jehovah, Jesus and John. See rev 1:1-- a Rev given to Jesus by God( did he give it to himself?) Did he sit at his own right hand? Did he pray to himself? = NO --this is the true God= John 4:22-24--and Jesus taught that--John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- as well as Paul-2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--Peter at 1Peter 1:3, and John at Rev 1:6--- anyone teaching something different are teaching dogmas of men. The true gospel of what was taught is right above--4 witnesses to truth.

Jesus called Himself the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. God also called Himself that. Jesus called Himself God.

Jesus never called himself God--Your teachers twist what he said. Look at Rev 1:1--a revelation given to Jesus by God--- put God as your right hand--it gives something to your left hand( Jesus) are your hands one? No -- Jesus is not God. He is the son of the true Living God.

 

[hadit]

Also ask them to reconcile Isaiah 44:6 and 48:12 with Revelation 1:17, 2:8 and 22:13 and their insistence that Jesus is not God.

The gospel of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12---- How does God have a God and still be only one God in existence?

All of those scriptures reference One who calls Himself the First and the Last. In Isaiah, it is clearly God referring to Himself. In Revelation, it is Jesus referring to Himself. JW's thus are faced with either admitting that Jesus is actually God or a liar. I don't think they want to say either one.

3 speak in revelation--Jehovah, Jesus and John. See rev 1:1-- a Rev given to Jesus by God( did he give it to himself?) Did he sit at his own right hand? Did he pray to himself? = NO --this is the true God= John 4:22-24--and Jesus taught that--John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- as well as Paul-2Cor 1:3, 1Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28--Peter at 1Peter 1:3, and John at Rev 1:6--- anyone teaching something different are teaching dogmas of men. The true gospel of what was taught is right above--4 witnesses to truth.

Jesus called Himself the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. God also called Himself that. Jesus called Himself God.

Jesus never called himself God--Your teachers twist what he said. Look at Rev 1:1--a revelation given to Jesus by God--- put God as your right hand--it gives something to your left hand( Jesus) are your hands one? No -- Jesus is not God. He is the son of the true Living God.

In Isaiah, someone identifies Himself as "Israel's King" and "the First and the Last". In fact, I will quote:

“This is what the Lord says
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

Do we all agree that the person speaking identifies Himself as God?

In Revelation, someone also identifies Himself as "The First and the Last". Again, I will quote:

Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.18 I am the Living One; I was dead,and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

It is clearly Jesus speaking here, because He was dead and is now alive. Jesus would also not dare to take on Himself one of God's titles if it was not His to take. Thus, it is clear that Jesus is calling Himself God.

Another example? From Exodus:

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

And from John:

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Why would they want to stone Him? He took for Himself one of God's titles.

Yet another? From Mark:

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”

There are many places where Jesus claims to be God. You can disagree with Him, but that's what He says.