Putting the Catholic Church in my rear view window...

[Meriweather]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

 

[Meriweather]

there's the rich church and the poor church.

They don't sermonize that the meek shall inherit the earth in the rich church

There is compassion in the "rich" church as well. People rich in worldly goods, can also live in poverty when it comes to the spiritual. They can be poor in love, in mercy, in faith--especially poor in faith since they can buy all the material things they desire. However, one cannot buy what brings spiritual joy. One cannot buy goodness. The rich have problems, too.

 

[Blues Man]

there's the rich church and the poor church.

They don't sermonize that the meek shall inherit the earth in the rich church

There is compassion in the "rich" church as well. People rich in worldly goods, can also live in poverty when it comes to the spiritual. They can be poor in love, in mercy, in faith--especially poor in faith since they can buy all the material things they desire. However, one cannot buy what brings spiritual joy. One cannot buy goodness. The rich have problems, too.

Never said they didn't i merely said there are different messages for different people.

The poor are told the meek shall inherit the earth so as to mollify them. Any priest that said that in a rich church would be laughed off the pulpit

 

[Meriweather]

know they just moved pedophile priests from parish to parish so they wouldn't get caught

History says otherwise. Go back to the fifties and sixties when psychiatry started to become all the rage. Professions of all types saw their were pedophiles in their midst--especially those professions dealing with children...teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, doctors, etc. So the psychiatrists held their seminars, told the superiors of these people to move them (yes, teachers, doctors, priests, ministers, rabbis) to a different place so that they might have a new beginning after their "cure". Who were the first to tell the psychiatric community, "This does not work, does not work, does not work!" Yes, it was the Catholic Church. Amazing how the press gave the psychiatric community and all other professions a pass, isn't it? Especially when the Catholic Church percentage wise had the least number of offenders, and were the most vocal about the program not working. (Better a Church pay the price than the worldly psychiatric community, right?)

This is the story that was not told, the story that died on the press room floor. I know because I was there. While the light was shining on Catholic priests, school teachers were still being moved from school to school. Again, I was there.

 

[Meriweather]

Never said they didn't i merely said there are different messages for different people.

The poor are told the meek shall inherit the earth so as to mollify them. Any priest that said that in a rich church would be laughed off the pulpit

First, we are all unique, so unique messages should be the norm. Second, untrue that that saying the meek shall inherit the earth would be laughed off the pulpit. First, do you know the meaning of meek, when it was originally used?

 

[Blues Man]

Never said they didn't i merely said there are different messages for different people.

The poor are told the meek shall inherit the earth so as to mollify them. Any priest that said that in a rich church would be laughed off the pulpit

First, we are all unique, so unique messages should be the norm. Second, untrue that that saying the meek shall inherit the earth would be laughed off the pulpit. First, do you know the meaning of meek, when it was originally used?

the messages should be consistent.

either the meek shall inherit the earth or they won't.

Salvation for the rich guy should require the same thing it does of the poor guy. Priests give different messages.

And for the most part of all the different denominations of Christians I have know Catholics seem to be the worst of the bunch.

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

So what's the point of having a pope if people just ignore what he says but as long as the church gets its donations every week that type of disobedience is tolerated

 

[ding]

I believe the sanctity of marriage is predicated on the splitting of spirit into it's male and female halves. That there is only spirit. That spirit contains the essence of femininity and masculinity. And that male and female halves only exist apart in the material world. That marriage is the joining of the two halves that were split apart. Maybe if more people understood this there would be less bad marriages in the first place.

I agree - but nevertheless grey are all theories. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". To leave my first wife was necessary, the divorce unevitable - and to find my second wife was a wonder. She had been in a very similiar situation than I had been and so we did not need many words to understand each other, although we are both chatterboxes.

I make no judgments either way.

¿Judgement?

Yes.

I don't know what kind of answer this is - but the "discussion" within the Catholic Church about "remarriage" is anyway one of the most stupid irreal discussions the world ever had seen. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". And what anyone in the world thinks about me or anyone else, who is remarried, is for me personally without any relevance for anything. Everything what Catholics and others discuss in this direction is in my eyes only a stupid nonsense, which helps no one. Sure is it good to be married "forever" = until the partner dies. But philosophically is for example to die and to live the same. Within life we are surrounded from death. And in general exists by the way no one, who is really a "remarried Catholic", because the Catholic Church marries no one, who was once married. "Remarriage" exists only because people think it's the same to be politically married for a community of people (accepted to be married from other people) and to be spiritually married in the eyes of god (accepted to be married from our father in heaven). You can see this difference by the way very clear in the father of the Lord Joseph, who decided with the help of god to marry Mary and not to take care that Mary was pregnant from someone else - what was not compatible with the rules in his time and place of history.

In not judging you.

What for heavens sake do you try to say with this sentence?

Which part didn’t you understand?

 

[Taz]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

 

[Meriweather]

the messages should be consistent.

The etymology of meek is patience and long-suffering. Meekness is not weakness. In other words, those who work at their goal will attain it. The Prayer of Jabez (Old Testament) comes to mind. Therefore, the teaching is indeed consistent and works for both rich and poor alike.

 

[Meriweather]

Salvation for the rich guy should require the same thing it does of the poor guy. Priests give different messages.

Shrug. Some say the Bible gives different messages--and both do when addressing different circumstances. Not everything is the Bible is addressed to me. The same goes for homilies. Still, the foundation does hold true for all people.

 

[Meriweather]

And for the most part of all the different denominations of Christians I have know Catholics seem to be the worst of the bunch.

Perhaps, but to me it sounds like the least understood.

 

[Meriweather]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

 

[Meriweather]

So what's the point of having a pope if people just ignore what he says but as long as the church gets its donations every week that type of disobedience is tolerated

The Pope is there to remind us of the ideals to which we strive.

 

[Meriweather]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

 

[Taz]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

 

[Meriweather]

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

If you wish a response, don't limit word choice. I don't play that game.

 

[Taz]

I believe the sanctity of marriage is predicated on the splitting of spirit into it's male and female halves. That there is only spirit. That spirit contains the essence of femininity and masculinity. And that male and female halves only exist apart in the material world. That marriage is the joining of the two halves that were split apart. Maybe if more people understood this there would be less bad marriages in the first place.

I agree - but nevertheless grey are all theories. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". To leave my first wife was necessary, the divorce unevitable - and to find my second wife was a wonder. She had been in a very similiar situation than I had been and so we did not need many words to understand each other, although we are both chatterboxes.

I make no judgments either way.

¿Judgement?

Yes.

I don't know what kind of answer this is - but the "discussion" within the Catholic Church about "remarriage" is anyway one of the most stupid irreal discussions the world ever had seen. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". And what anyone in the world thinks about me or anyone else, who is remarried, is for me personally without any relevance for anything. Everything what Catholics and others discuss in this direction is in my eyes only a stupid nonsense, which helps no one. Sure is it good to be married "forever" = until the partner dies. But philosophically is for example to die and to live the same. Within life we are surrounded from death. And in general exists by the way no one, who is really a "remarried Catholic", because the Catholic Church marries no one, who was once married. "Remarriage" exists only because people think it's the same to be politically married for a community of people (accepted to be married from other people) and to be spiritually married in the eyes of god (accepted to be married from our father in heaven). You can see this difference by the way very clear in the father of the Lord Joseph, who decided with the help of god to marry Mary and not to take care that Mary was pregnant from someone else - what was not compatible with the rules in his time and place of history.

In not judging you.

What for heavens sake do you try to say with this sentence?

Which part didn’t you understand?

The part in English.

 

[Taz]

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

If you wish a response, don't limit word choice. I don't play that game.

Simple yes or no answer will do. Do you believe that statement or not?

 

[Mr Natural]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

 

[Meriweather]

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

Exactly. And in fact He didn't deal with them they way Taz wishes to paint it.