Putting the Catholic Church in my rear view window...

[LittleNipper]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

Yeah OK

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

However, atheists see themselves as "good" through their own eyes.

 

[Meriweather]

so those who don't believe in JC can actually sin less than those who do.

So why do they need JC at all?

Seems to me that churchgoers sin quite a bit even thought they believe in a god

I find it interesting that a man can choose to live a good life and not believe in god and expects no heavenly reward for his good acts can be called a sinner by religious people who believe and do their good deeds out of fear of punishment or for want of an eternal reward.

I decided long ago that the unbeliever who lived a good life was the better person

Now you are speaking as an outsider, insisting you know what those inside are "really" doing, what their "real" intent is. Speaking as an insider: Religious people do not do good deeds out of fear of punishment or losing any reward. They do what they do because it is who they are, and it is where their priorities lie. They do not try to be "better" than anyone else; rather they just work on bettering themselves. They recognize their own need to improve.

 

[LittleNipper]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.
that is just the awful christian bible -

the actual religion is choice to eventually triumph over sin for admission to the Everlasting - at a minimum there is no intermediary messiah to live in dream land.

again relating to the o p and in general that is their choice not their perceived affiliation as the answer they do not understand.

SO, you never sinned against anyone nor GOD? You never lied (ever), stole (took anything that wasn't yours), never cheated, never used the LORD's name in vain? And there are other sins; however, if you committed even one sin, you are going to hell. Without a redeemer you are not worthy of being in the presence of GOD. You can call the Bible awful all you want, but you are not a good person if you ever sinned, and that make you awful.

so go to church give god money and you can have a get out of hell card

GOD doesn't need your money. Everything belongs to HIM anyway. GOD is not impressed by what we do.
When a individual becomes saved, he or she becomes a new creature. Many things that once motivated that individual suddenly becomes unimportant and no longer "enjoyable". I've seen it happen time and again. It occurred in my own life.

 

[BreezeWood]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.
that is just the awful christian bible -

the actual religion is choice to eventually triumph over sin for admission to the Everlasting - at a minimum there is no intermediary messiah to live in dream land.

again relating to the o p and in general that is their choice not their perceived affiliation as the answer they do not understand.

SO, you never sinned against anyone nor GOD? You never lied (ever), stole (took anything that wasn't yours), never cheated, never used the LORD's name in vain? And there are other sins; however, if you committed even one sin, you are going to hell. Without a redeemer you are not worthy of being in the presence of GOD. You can call the Bible awful all you want, but you are not a good person if you ever sinned, and that make you awful.

.

if you committed even one sin, you are going to hell. Without a redeemer ...

.
choice is the path to the Everlasting through events during an individuals physiological existence.

the prescribed religion of antiquity is to triumph over sin and has been the mission of the religious throughout history including the 1st century religious itinerant that was crucified and will be till the conclusion of one or the other, good vs evil and the final judgement for humanity is rendered.

it's not just the individual nipper, to believe that is in itself to be a sinner.

 

[Taz]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

Actually he died because of our sins.

We hadn't been born yet to sin.

What difference does that make?

Everyone who has ever sinned or will ever sin orchestrated the death of Christ. While it may be convenient to believe Christ died for your sins, the correct way of looking at it is that Christ died because of your sins.

It’s illogical to say that I’m responsible for something that happened 2000 years ago.

 

[Taz]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.
that is just the awful christian bible -

the actual religion is choice to eventually triumph over sin for admission to the Everlasting - at a minimum there is no intermediary messiah to live in dream land.

again relating to the o p and in general that is their choice not their perceived affiliation as the answer they do not understand.

SO, you never sinned against anyone nor GOD? You never lied (ever), stole (took anything that wasn't yours), never cheated, never used the LORD's name in vain? And there are other sins; however, if you committed even one sin, you are going to hell. Without a redeemer you are not worthy of being in the presence of GOD. You can call the Bible awful all you want, but you are not a good person if you ever sinned, and that make you awful.

so go to church give god money and you can have a get out of hell card

GOD doesn't need your money. Everything belongs to HIM anyway. GOD is not impressed by what we do.
When a individual becomes saved, he or she becomes a new creature. Many things that once motivated that individual suddenly becomes unimportant and no longer "enjoyable". I've seen it happen time and again. It occurred in my own life.

I’m not impressed by god making deformed and/or retarded children.

 

[ding]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

Actually he died because of our sins.

We hadn't been born yet to sin.

What difference does that make?

Everyone who has ever sinned or will ever sin orchestrated the death of Christ. While it may be convenient to believe Christ died for your sins, the correct way of looking at it is that Christ died because of your sins.

It’s illogical to say that I’m responsible for something that happened 2000 years ago.

Not from the Catholic viewpoint it isn't. From the Catholic viewpoint everything was created through and for Christ. That you refuse to share in His suffering and refuse to accept your blame for His suffering is one of the things keeping you from progressing into the best version of yourself. So the only one you are hurting is you. Have at it.

 

[BreezeWood]

So Jesus died for our sins, so now we can sin all we want because that bill is paid.

No. With Jesus we have the second model. Paul spoke of Adam being the first model of how mankind might live, choosing disobedience over obedience. Jesus is the second, choosing obedience over disobedience. "Sinning all we want" takes us back to Adam, not forward with Jesus.

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

Actually he died because of our sins.

We hadn't been born yet to sin.

What difference does that make?

Everyone who has ever sinned or will ever sin orchestrated the death of Christ. While it may be convenient to believe Christ died for your sins, the correct way of looking at it is that Christ died because of your sins.

It’s illogical to say that I’m responsible for something that happened 2000 years ago.

Not from the Catholic viewpoint it isn't. From the Catholic viewpoint everything was created through and for Christ. That you refuse to share in His suffering and refuse to accept your blame for His suffering is one of the things keeping you from progressing into the best version of yourself. So the only one you are hurting is you. Have at it.

.

From the Catholic viewpoint everything was created through and for Christ.

.

.
that doesn't even make any sense - are you clueless, the u s constitution put an end to monarchy and a death nail to aristocracy.
.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
.
bing, the reactionary. all hail caesar.

 

[Harry Dresden]

how do you know i didnt?....

It's noticeable when someone barely scratches the surface of any faith.

i saw what it was at an early age....

 

[zaangalewa]

I believe the sanctity of marriage is predicated on the splitting of spirit into it's male and female halves. That there is only spirit. That spirit contains the essence of femininity and masculinity. And that male and female halves only exist apart in the material world. That marriage is the joining of the two halves that were split apart. Maybe if more people understood this there would be less bad marriages in the first place.

I agree - but nevertheless grey are all theories. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". To leave my first wife was necessary, the divorce unevitable - and to find my second wife was a wonder. She had been in a very similiar situation than I had been and so we did not need many words to understand each other, although we are both chatterboxes.

I make no judgments either way.

¿Judgement?

Yes.

I don't know what kind of answer this is - but the "discussion" within the Catholic Church about "remarriage" is anyway one of the most stupid irreal discussions the world ever had seen. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". And what anyone in the world thinks about me or anyone else, who is remarried, is for me personally without any relevance for anything. Everything what Catholics and others discuss in this direction is in my eyes only a stupid nonsense, which helps no one. Sure is it good to be married "forever" = until the partner dies. But philosophically is for example to die and to live the same. Within life we are surrounded from death. And in general exists by the way no one, who is really a "remarried Catholic", because the Catholic Church marries no one, who was once married. "Remarriage" exists only because people think it's the same to be politically married for a community of people (accepted to be married from other people) and to be spiritually married in the eyes of god (accepted to be married from our father in heaven). You can see this difference by the way very clear in the father of the Lord Joseph, who decided with the help of god to marry Mary and not to take care that Mary was pregnant from someone else - what was not compatible with the rules in his time and place of history.

Did you remarry with a guy this time?

No problems, Nazi? What about to live the next two weeks without alcohol and drugs?

I don't drink or do drugs, that shit is for kikes.

And whatelse is the background for your totally stupid, absurde and agressive, senseless behavior?

 

[zaangalewa]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

Yeah OK

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

And why do they follow the 10 commandements?

 

[zaangalewa]

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

As it should be. Jesus said he came for sinners, that those who are well have no need of a physician.

so those who don't believe in JC can actually sin less than those who do.

So why do they need JC at all?

Seems to me that churchgoers sin quite a bit even thought they believe in a god

I find it interesting that a man can choose to live a good life and not believe in god and expects no heavenly reward for his good acts can be called a sinner by religious people who believe and do their good deeds out of fear of punishment or for want of an eternal reward.

I decided long ago that the unbeliever who lived a good life was the better person

This decided god perverting Nazis and god denying Commies too and lived a "good life" in their view to the world. The only problem was they were not ready to let live all others a "good life" too!

 

[zaangalewa]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

No. He died because of our sins.

Jesus died, because god loves all mankind (=every single human being) more than anything else.

 

[zaangalewa]

I believe the sanctity of marriage is predicated on the splitting of spirit into it's male and female halves. That there is only spirit. That spirit contains the essence of femininity and masculinity. And that male and female halves only exist apart in the material world. That marriage is the joining of the two halves that were split apart. Maybe if more people understood this there would be less bad marriages in the first place.

I agree - but nevertheless grey are all theories. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". To leave my first wife was necessary, the divorce unevitable - and to find my second wife was a wonder. She had been in a very similiar situation than I had been and so we did not need many words to understand each other, although we are both chatterboxes.

I make no judgments either way.

¿Judgement?

Yes.

I don't know what kind of answer this is - but the "discussion" within the Catholic Church about "remarriage" is anyway one of the most stupid irreal discussions the world ever had seen. I am a so called "remarried Catholic". And what anyone in the world thinks about me or anyone else, who is remarried, is for me personally without any relevance for anything. Everything what Catholics and others discuss in this direction is in my eyes only a stupid nonsense, which helps no one. Sure is it good to be married "forever" = until the partner dies. But philosophically is for example to die and to live the same. Within life we are surrounded from death. And in general exists by the way no one, who is really a "remarried Catholic", because the Catholic Church marries no one, who was once married. "Remarriage" exists only because people think it's the same to be politically married for a community of people (accepted to be married from other people) and to be spiritually married in the eyes of god (accepted to be married from our father in heaven). You can see this difference by the way very clear in the father of the Lord Joseph, who decided with the help of god to marry Mary and not to take care that Mary was pregnant from someone else - what was not compatible with the rules in his time and place of history.

In not judging you.

What for heavens sake do you try to say with this sentence?

Which part didn’t you understand?

Good grief. US-Americans are really strange. What motivated you to say "I make no judgments ..." or "In [=I'm] not judging you." What for heavens sake do you speak about?

I’m sure if you try really hard you can figure it out.

Let it be.

 

[zaangalewa]

... so go to church give god money and you can have a get out of hell card

Or not. Hell is free of charge. But "we" = "I" make an exception in your case. Give some money for example to your homeless sisters and brothers and I give you a "get out of hell"- card. I promise you: God will not forget any cup of water you gave to someone, who needs it.

 

[Blues Man]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

Yeah OK

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

However, atheists see themselves as "good" through their own eyes.

no more than religious people

 

[Blues Man]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

Yeah OK

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

And why do they follow the 10 commandements?

you do realize that most of the 10 Commandments are laws that already existed before the New Testament was written don't you?

 

[Blues Man]

so those who don't believe in JC can actually sin less than those who do.

So why do they need JC at all?

Seems to me that churchgoers sin quite a bit even thought they believe in a god

I find it interesting that a man can choose to live a good life and not believe in god and expects no heavenly reward for his good acts can be called a sinner by religious people who believe and do their good deeds out of fear of punishment or for want of an eternal reward.

I decided long ago that the unbeliever who lived a good life was the better person

Now you are speaking as an outsider, insisting you know what those inside are "really" doing, what their "real" intent is. Speaking as an insider: Religious people do not do good deeds out of fear of punishment or losing any reward. They do what they do because it is who they are, and it is where their priorities lie. They do not try to be "better" than anyone else; rather they just work on bettering themselves. They recognize their own need to improve.

No I am speaking a a person who was a searcher. I looked into Christianity and some other religions and found them all wanting. And in all honesty it was the people in those churches I had a hard time abiding. I saw so much hypocrisy that I could not abide.

So tell me why does the bible speak of eternal rewards and endless punishment if not to sway people by fear and greed?

and i never said they tried to be better. It is my conclusion that the person who chooses to live a good life with no expectation of salvation, an eternal life in heaven or whatever is a better person than one who does.

 

[Blues Man]

But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So that bill should be paid already.

What bill? Adam's way pointed to one direction for living life. Jesus' way pointed to another direction of living life. Neither Adam nor Jesus is living our life, we are. Just like Adam and Jesus we need to choose a direction.

Did Jesus die on the cross for our sins, yes or no.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.

Seems to me that a being that could create the entire universe and everything in it would come up with a better solution to dealing with humanity’s sins.

.
that is just the awful christian bible -

the actual religion is choice to eventually triumph over sin for admission to the Everlasting - at a minimum there is no intermediary messiah to live in dream land.

again relating to the o p and in general that is their choice not their perceived affiliation as the answer they do not understand.

SO, you never sinned against anyone nor GOD? You never lied (ever), stole (took anything that wasn't yours), never cheated, never used the LORD's name in vain? And there are other sins; however, if you committed even one sin, you are going to hell. Without a redeemer you are not worthy of being in the presence of GOD. You can call the Bible awful all you want, but you are not a good person if you ever sinned, and that make you awful.

so go to church give god money and you can have a get out of hell card

GOD doesn't need your money. Everything belongs to HIM anyway. GOD is not impressed by what we do.
When a individual becomes saved, he or she becomes a new creature. Many things that once motivated that individual suddenly becomes unimportant and no longer "enjoyable". I've seen it happen time and again. It occurred in my own life.

Then tell me why the Catholic Church is one of the richest institutions on earth if they don't need money? When I was looking into Christianity I saw a lot of asking for money, one church I visited passed the collection basket 4 times in one service

Ive seen people do the same thing without religion. There is no mysticism involved, no capricious god that insists he be worshiped or else

 

[zaangalewa]

The pope says birth control is a sin yet how many catholic women use birth control?

Take a look at God's Commandments. Yet how many people break them? What both Commandments and Church point to is the ideal. What we see (or do not see) are those who reach that ideal.

Yeah OK

I know atheists who do a better job of following the 10 commandments than most of the religious people I have ever met

And why do they follow the 10 commandements?

you do realize that most of the 10 Commandments are laws that already existed before the New Testament was written don't you?

Your question answers not my question.