Zone1 Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war - should the west show restraint and force the Ukranians in negotations?

If Russia's conventional warfare capability wasn't a joke, they wouldn't still be at war with Ukraine.
An alternative view could be that America has thrown nearly all of it's modern weapons ( and it's stocks of ammunition) at the Ukraine and has failed,

So once again, we need to stop speculating and look at facts on the ground.

I will however risk saying that the chatter in the air is indicating that America/nato countries are searching for solutions for an enormous problem.
 
Sorry, but no. The support given so far is the only reason they have held on for as long as they have.

It's the standard Dem approach to a problem. "Throw money at it, and the issue will fix itself"

They are simply on the wrong side of the manpower equation to do anything but hold or try to hold what they have. Giving them more division sets of equipment wouldn't work because they are starting to thin out of the bodies to use said equipment effectively.
The Japanese were on the wrong side of the manpower equation in China during WWII, but it didn’t stop them from winning almost all the battles despite massive western aid to the Chinese.
 
The Japanese were on the wrong side of the manpower equation in China during WWII, but it didn’t stop them from winning almost all the battles despite massive western aid to the Chinese.

That's because the Chinese were too busy fighting each other as well.
 
And when we look into Biden's eyes all we see is black... he is not there... and we should be very concerned... I have never seen black eyes like that demon has....
 
Keep sucking on your “Red” psychedelic juice
Look more closely. I'm spitting it ... not sucking it.
(a Trump or a Putin brew?).
Coca-Cola, Pepsi Cola, Cuba Cola, Campa-Cola, Nova-Cola, Kofola, Trumpa Cola, or Putin-Cola. They all taste differently so make up your mind. For which one do you want my appraisal?
The point, as I made clear, is not that Ukraine can defeat Russia without Western assistance,
I'm glad we cleared that up.
but that Ukrainian nationalism has emerged as a strong independent force
Bull shit. Your mind has been duped by the CIA-endorsed MSM.
that threw back the new Czar’s invasion,
There is no Czar. Read a history book.
..... with full Western aid it can almost certainly survive and deal Putin a powerful defeat.
Regarding what? Donbas? Forget it. The Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk will either become independent states or join the Russian Federation. Try to remember I told you that. Don't forget now, ya' hear? :45:
 
So did Germans, and they are fine now.

It was 5-6 pickem between the two of them for most of Eastern Europe, and their reward for being freed from German oppression was decades of Soviet Oppression.
There’s a few points here. And I am in total agreement that Soviet communism is a difficult thing to live with at least from my American capitalist perspective. But there’s tons of Russians I talk with that say they were proud of the Soviet empire. I mean what kind of person would like to see their kingdom or Empire crumble like the Soviet one did??. The early 1990s was a disaster for the Russian economy.

I Never lived in the Soviet Union and knowing that there are tons of ex Soviet people who missed the so-called glory days of the Soviet union and then there are also people who are happy to have left it. That thing goes both ways…. now that is being fair to history.

It is fair to say that yes Ukrainian and French, and other collaborators of ww2 deeply admired Hitler and in their view they say it was a beautiful time. To live in the third reich they liked it. We cannot take it away from them.

But I think it is completely fair to say that you’re average Soviet person was a nice and kind person. We simply cannot say the same thing about a Nazi. I mean, at least from my American perspective. Putting people in ovens because of their Jewish religion is solely a Nazi thing. There is nothing that the average Soviet person did that ever compare to that. The Nazis were unique in destroying peoples lives because of their religion or perceived ethnicity. I mean, they didn’t even give them a chance to convert to a different religion or ideology. Communism is entirely different from that.

The other point to consider it was our grandparents who supported America and World War II, who also deeply supported their Soviet and British allies. I feel like it is an insult to them to compare the Soviet person to the German or Ukrainian or French Nazi. I’m not talking about Joe Stalin or Adolf Hitler. I’m talking about the people.

Finally, for the modern time. For whatever reason, the Ukrainian government is propping up Nazi symbols. It really is stupid. One can say. It takes away from any Ukrainian who is fighting for their homeland and fighting against the Russian aggression. So that’s a serious thing. Ukraine is just as if not more authoritarian compared to Russia. All of these arguments against Putin can be made against Zelinski who has shut down elections And has a state ran media. He has also banned religions in his country.


Finally a point about Vladimir Putin. Yes he is authoritarian but there are tons of authoritarian leaders in the world that are heads of states in countries allied to the USA. So the morality point of view just doesn’t cut it meaning to say that people try and argue that “Russia is evil, or Putin is evil” that is hypocritical coming from an American perspective. Knowing that the United States has invaded other countries, these are the kind of things that Donald Trump talks about and He is right.

There’s a lot of different points I made here so it’s a huge discussion… there’s not one point to be taken away from all of this. We need to look at Russia Ukraine with an open mind.
 
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There’s a few points here. And I am in total agreement that Soviet communism is a difficult thing to live with at least from my American capitalist perspective. But there’s tons of Russians I talk with that say they were proud of the Soviet empire. I mean what kind of person would like to see their kingdom or Empire crumble like the Soviet one did??. The early 1990s was a disaster for the Russian economy.

I Never lived in the Soviet Union and knowing that there are tons of ex Soviet people who missed the so-called glory days of the Soviet union and then there are also people who are happy to have left it. That thing goes both ways…. now that is being fair to history.

It is fair to say that yes Ukrainian and French, and other collaborators of ww2 deeply admired Hitler and in their view they say it was a beautiful time. To live in the third reich they liked it. We cannot take it away from them.

But I think it is completely fair to say that you’re average Soviet person was a nice and kind person. We simply cannot say the same thing about a Nazi. I mean, at least from my American perspective. Putting people in ovens because of their Jewish religion is solely a Nazi thing. There is nothing that the average Soviet person did that ever compare to that. The Nazis were unique in destroying peoples lives because of their religion or perceived ethnicity. I mean, they didn’t even give them a chance to convert to a different religion or ideology. Communism is entirely different from that.

The other point to consider it was our grandparents who supported America and World War II, who also deeply supported their Soviet and British allies. I feel like it is an insult to them to compare the Soviet person to the German or Ukrainian or French Nazi. I’m not talking about Joe Stalin or Adolf Hitler. I’m talking about the people.

Finally, for the modern time. For whatever reason, the Ukrainian government is propping up Nazi symbols. It really is stupid. One can say. It takes away from any Ukrainian who is fighting for their homeland and fighting against the Russian aggression. So that’s a serious thing. Ukraine is just as if not more authoritarian compared to Russia. All of these arguments against Putin can be made against Zelinski who has shut down elections And has a state ran media. He has also banned religions in his country.


Finally a point about Vladimir Putin. Yes he is authoritarian but there are tons of authoritarian leaders in the world that are heads of states in countries allied to the USA. So the morality point of view just doesn’t cut it meaning to say that people try and argue that “Russia is evil, or Putin is evil” that is hypocritical coming from an American perspective. Knowing that the United States has invaded other countries, these are the kind of things that Donald Trump talks about and He is right.

There’s a lot of different points I made here so it’s a huge discussion… there’s not one point to be taken away from all of this. We need to look at Russia Ukraine with an open mind.

The key word is Russians.

And the average German wasn't a Nazi. Plenty were, and most went along with it, but they weren't Nazis.
 
The Ukrainian government supports Nazism. Look at the red and black flags of the Ukraine insurgent army, a pro Hitler alliance in world war II… Responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Jews… not to mention, they fought against the Americans and our British and Soviet allies in World War II.

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Dragonlady JimH52 martybegan Harpy Eagle

It’s a shame, and it takes away from any Ukrainian who does not support the legacy of Hitler. It’s blatantly obvious there are quite a few thugs in the Ukrainian government and high authority.

How to tell us you're a Russian propaganda plant without telling us you work at a troll farm.
 
Are you sure about that?

America has the unfair advantage of imagining that the god is on its side.
Yes, I'm sure about that. Do you know how a nuclear exchange would work? There's three phases to it. It's practically fail safe.
 
That's you indirectly making the point for me, saying that the threat of Russia invading more countries is American hogwash propaganda!
That doesn't mean they wouldn't try it. They are even dumber than you.
 
Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war
Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed Thursday to fulfill Moscow’s goals in Ukraine and sternly warned the West against deeper involvement in the fighting, saying that such a move is fraught with the risk of a global nuclear conflict.

Remote : Thu, 29 Feb 2024 13:05:06 GMT
Local : 2024-02-29(Thursday) 14 : 05 : 06
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

so should the west at this point be the wiser party in the crowd, and just force the Ukranians into negotiations?
with the Donbass given up to Russia, and Ukraine prevented from NATO membership? a neutral country, like the Russians proposed?
yes, but not because of Putin's threat, but because its the right thing to do for humanity. Putin only attacked because the US has a weak president.
 

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