Zone1 Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war - should the west show restraint and force the Ukranians in negotations?

[Donald H]

You grossly overestimate your pseudo-knowledge. No matter the final outcome Russia will smoke and ruin any nation that makes the challenge.

The message went completely over your head. I've grossly overestimated your ability to understand sarcasm.

You seem to have a childish view of the world. Read my above statement and if it doesn't sink in then you'll just have to learn the hard way.

As I told you above.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The time to test out one of them there space lasers and see if we can't have us a Hog Roast, with Putin as the guest of honor.

 

[1srelluc]

I read the other day of a war game scenario the Russians conducted a few months back where they were gaming a Chi-Com invasion into Russia....They went tactical nuke in a bit less than three hours into it.

There won't be a repeat of Operation Barbarossa in Russia anymore without tactical nukes involved.....NATO better get used to that fact.

 

[GLASNOST]

The message went completely over your head. I've grossly overestimated your ability to understand sarcasm.

I would like that to be true.

 

[GLASNOST]

You completely ignore the strength and determination of Ukrainian nationalism,......

 

[Donald H]

First of all Russia's conventional military is a joke and wouldn't get very far trying to invade NATO countries.

I completely agree that Russia would get nowhere invading a Nato country. I'll reserve commenting on the joke part.

So nevermind the nuclear threat. Secondly, if you believe that Russia is precluded from invading NATO countries because of fear of nuclear threat,

I didn't suggest nuclear threat against America. We can stick to discussing conventional weapons threats if you like. The popular opinion here is that America's weapons are far advanced over Russia's or China's.

then they would also fear launching nukes because of fear of nuclear threat.

Nukes again? Yes, of course Russia would greatly fear launching them.

So nevermind the nuclear threat.

Alright, we can debate on any terms you choose. I'll even entertain the notion that your god will stop any nuclear or conventional attack against America. (it's popular)

And lastly, the US is the least imperialist super power in the history of mankind and has no desire to invade Russia. So again, nevermind the nuclear threat.

I might disagree on that but I'll reserve judgment for now.

It's like you are incapable of intelligent thought.

You've just granted the fact that America won't invade Russia, above.
Would Russia dare to invade America or a Nato country?

 

[Donald H]

I read the other day of a war game scenario the Russians conducted a few months back where they were gaming a Chi-Com invasion into Russia....They went tactical nuke in a bit less than three hours into it.

There won't be a repeat of Operation Barbarossa in Russia anymore without tactical nukes involved.....NATO better get used to that fact.

It's not hard to understand is it my friend. America's propaganda that says Russia is out to rule the world, is easily blown out of the water.

But it takes more balls to voice an opinion on the opposite with America attacking Russia.

Even though ding's god will stop all of Russia's and China's incoming!

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

The Ukrainian government supports Nazism. Look at the red and black flags of the Ukraine insurgent army, a pro Hitler alliance in world war II… Responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Jews… not to mention, they fought against the Americans and our British and Soviet allies in World War II.

Dragonlady JimH52 martybegan Harpy Eagle

It’s a shame, and it takes away from any Ukrainian who does not support the legacy of Hitler. It’s blatantly obvious there are quite a few thugs in the Ukrainian government and high authority.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Ukrainian government supports Nazism.

Shut up liar.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Keep sucking on your “Red” psychedelic juice (a Trump or a Putin brew?). The point, as I made clear, is not that Ukraine can defeat Russia without Western assistance, but that Ukrainian nationalism has emerged as a strong independent force that threw back the new Czar’s invasion, even with minimal U.S. aid. Of course Russian fascists and numbers and its crushing of domestic opposition make it veery unlikely Ukraine can recover all the lands taken, but with full Western aid it can almost certainly survive and deal Putin a powerful defeat.

 

[martybegan]

The Ukrainian government supports Nazism. Look at the red and black flags of the Ukraine insurgent army, a pro Hitler alliance in world war II… Responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Jews… not to mention, they fought against the Americans and our British and Soviet allies in World War II.

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Dragonlady JimH52 martybegan Harpy Eagle

It’s a shame, and it takes away from any Ukrainian who does not support the legacy of Hitler. It’s blatantly obvious there are quite a few thugs in the Ukrainian government and high authority.

Some Ukrainians worked with the Nazis because Stalin was just as big of an asshole. Talk about shitty choices.

 

[Donald H]

make it veery unlikely Ukraine can recover all the lands taken, ..........................................deal Putin a powerful defeat.

O.k. Tom but that seems to be a bit contradictory doesn't it?

I think we were doing better making the facts clear that America can't attack Russia directly and Russia can't attack Aerica directly. Nobody wants to debate those facts.

Otherwise, what do we know for sure about the progress of the war?

We can't even settle the question on the Ukraine losing 50,000 men or 450,000 men?

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Some Ukrainians worked with the Nazis because Stalin was just as big of an asshole. Talk about shitty choices.

There is a much more deeper issue here

They hated Jews and fought Americans… see even the Ukrainian insurgent Army personnel, who did not germany also hated jews.

And you can say that the Soviets were not as bad as the third reich. It’s not controversial at all. It doesn’t make one a communist.

Here’s the real core issue. Forget about the leaders for a moment …. Your average Soviet person was filled with love and happiness and good values. We can’t say that about a nazi

 

[martybegan]

There is a much more deeper issue here

They hated Jews and fought Americans… see even the Ukrainian insurgent Army personnel, who did not germany also hated jews.

And you can say that the Soviets were not as bad as the third reich. It’s not controversial at all. It doesn’t make one a communist.

Here’s the real core issue. Forget about the leaders for a moment …. Your average Soviet person was filled with love and happiness and good values. We can’t say that about a nazi

So did Germans, and they are fine now.

It was 5-6 pickem between the two of them for most of Eastern Europe, and their reward for being freed from German oppression was decades of Soviet Oppression.

 

[ding]

I completely agree that Russia would get nowhere invading a Nato country. I'll reserve commenting on the joke part.

If Russia's conventional warfare capability wasn't a joke, they wouldn't still be at war with Ukraine.

 

[JohnDB]

I read the other day of a war game scenario the Russians conducted a few months back where they were gaming a Chi-Com invasion into Russia....They went tactical nuke in a bit less than three hours into it.

There won't be a repeat of Operation Barbarossa in Russia anymore without tactical nukes involved.....NATO better get used to that fact.

Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Here is the Wikipedia article discussing Operation Barbarosa.

What is interesting is that Russian military tactics have not changed much despite it being a losing strategy.

And the Russians then instituted the Holomodor (potato famine) afterwards. As if it would avenge....

What's really disconcerting is that the two sides of this conflict have entrenched polarization of their only way to resolution.

Russia does need the groceries, metals, and other resources of Ukraine for discounted prices. (Which is why they invaded Ukraine) Ukranians want their farms and homes back without Russian strong-arm, mafia style treatment in the global marketplace.

Russia wants an economic future which is better than they currently can have being not much more than a gas station. However they are extremely limited in a population size and technology that can make this happen.
They are extremely dependent upon everyone else in the world for most technologies. (Including petroleum refinement)

The Russians do have an oversized military infrastructure in military equipment from their decades of overspending to boost their economy. Instead of civilian infrastructure they spent the money on military. (Which has been stripped and sold on black markets...you used to be able to purchase Russian military night vision goggles and rifle scopes easily off the internet for discounted prices)

So....where Ukraine is wanting freedom from Russian mafia style influence and progressive European economic advantages and Russia wants global influence in the global economy....there can be peace without war. Nobody is really going to like it...but they can dislike it all they want but still be alive to dislike it.

Currently Ukraine is going to need decades to recover from this war. Russia has leveled many entire large cities. The mines require time to safely remove. Farmers need their equipment, farm houses, and land back. It's not going to be fully functional for 70-80 years if the fighting stops today.

And on a side note....as much as Elon fussed about letting Russia win his companies are a primary reason why Russia invaded to begin with. (Rocket engines and fuel are made inexpensively in Ukraine)

 

[ding]

I didn't suggest nuclear threat against America. We can stick to discussing conventional weapons threats if you like. The popular opinion here is that America's weapons are far advanced over Russia's or China's.

Of course you did. You said it's the reason America won't invade Russia, right?

 

[ding]

Nukes again? Yes, of course Russia would greatly fear launching them.

Only because they fear they would lose. If those pieces of shit thought they could get away with it, they would launch in a New York minute.

 

[ding]

Alright, we can debate on any terms you choose. I'll even entertain the notion that your god will stop any nuclear or conventional attack against America. (it's popular)

It's not popular with me. No one would win in a nuclear exchange. There would only be losing worse. As for a conventional attack... Russia can't even defeat Ukraine. Their army is a joke.

 

[ding]

Would Russia dare to invade America or a Nato country?

They can't even defeat Ukraine.