Zone1 Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war - should the west show restraint and force the Ukranians in negotations?

[Rambunctious]

Then you kill the bear with your knife, or you don't get to wear a coonskin hat.
I'm for shootin' Putin. Where the Hell are our undercover assassins?

And after Putin is gone who will replace him?... and when it becomes open season on presidents what then?...

 

[d0gbreath]

And after Putin is gone who will replace him?... and when it becomes open season on presidents what then?...

I'll make popcorn and grab a cold Bud Light.

 

[Rambunctious]

I'll make popcorn and grab a cold Bud Light.

 

[martybegan]

Then you kill the bear with your knife, or you don't get to wear a coonskin hat.
I'm for shootin' Putin. Where the Hell are our undercover assassins?

See your mistake?

 

[d0gbreath]

See your mistake?

I guess you've never heard of the legendary Dan'l Boone. He wore a coonskin cap and had apparently killed a bar with his knife at one time.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

If the Ukes were out of ammo, then the Russians would overrun them in hours.

You really aren't at all bright.

Towards the end of last year the Ukrainians finally began to match and surpass the number of artillery shells fired, plus they were far more accurate, giving the Russians hell. Now again they are way behind. This is how such “stalemated” wars are lost that could have been won.

The morale factor is also crucial. Nobody wants to die for a lost cause and the Ukrainians have already done a lot of dying to be a part of Europe and not Russia. There will be more dying no matter what — especially if Ukraine loses and Russia wrecks its vengeance on them. They have counted on European and U.S. aid and if we betray them now the fallout will be devastating everywhere.

Of course there may be a “cease fire” at some point, but it must happen with Russia paying a price for Putin’s Feb. 24, 2022 invasion of a sovereign country! He must not “fulfill his goals”!

Putin really has no set goal, as the OP claims. What would “to fulfill Moscow’s goals” amount to? Putin wanted and wants to destroy Ukraine’s national existence, and he counts on Trump’s influence and his election to get him just that. Before he was worrying about his own survival only. Let him scurry away and be humiliated and perhaps eliminated. He and others on Russian TV threaten nuclear war every week. It is a danger, of course, but capitulating here will only encourage him and others like North Korea to play this game.

Ukraine isn't in NATO.

Right. If it were, we would have our troops in Ukraine right now along with hundreds of thousands of European troops fighting the bloody Russians.

We are not proposing that, but we and Europe are properly building up our conventional military capabilities at home while we actively help Ukraine defend itself. This is necessary to prepare for the future, which does not look very peaceful, and is part of reshoring and rebuilding U.S. industry, U.S. technology, etc.

 

[alang1216]

so should the west at this point be the wiser party in the crowd, and just force the Ukranians into negotiations?

No.

 

[Oddball]

Towards the end of last year the Ukrainians finally began to match and surpass the number of artillery shells fired, plus they were far more accurate, giving the Russians hell. Now again they are way behind. This is how such “stalemated” wars are lost that could have been won.

The morale factor is also crucial. Nobody wants to die for a lost cause and the Ukrainians have already done a lot of dying to be a part of Europe and not Russia. There will be more dying no matter what — especially if Ukraine loses and Russia wrecks its vengeance on them. They have counted on European and U.S. aid and if we betray them now the fallout will be devastating everywhere.

Of course there may be a “cease fire” at some point, but it must happen with Russia paying a price for Putin’s Feb. 24, 2022 invasion of a sovereign country! He must not “fulfill his goals”!

Putin really has no set goal, as the OP claims. What would “to fulfill Moscow’s goals” amount to? Putin wanted and wants to destroy Ukraine’s national existence, and he counts on Trump’s influence and his election to get him just that. Before he was worrying about his own survival only. Let him scurry away and be humiliated and perhaps eliminated. He and others on Russian TV threaten nuclear war every week. It is a danger, of course, but capitulating here will only encourage him and others like North Korea to play this game.

Right. If it were, we would have our troops in Ukraine right now along with hundreds of thousands of European troops fighting the bloody Russians.

We are not proposing that, but we and Europe are properly building up our conventional military capabilities at home while we actively help Ukraine defend itself. This is necessary to prepare for the future, which does not look very peaceful, and is part of reshoring and rebuilding U.S. industry, U.S. technology, etc.

Overdose alert!!

 

[Oddball]

And after Putin is gone who will replace him?... and when it becomes open season on presidents what then?...

The color revolution whores never think that far ahead.

 

[ding]

Russia can enter world’s top four economies – Putin

Russia is already the biggest economy in Europe in PPP terms, and could join the top four globally, according to the Russian president

www.rt.com

Russia has no incentive to negotiate peace at this point in time, and America's only option is in sending more weapons that risk a nuclear conflict.
America needs to allow Zelensky to sue for peace to save the rest of his country.

That then means that America is going to have to peacefully coexist with the China/Russia alliance.

Sounds like an argument a Russian would make.

 

[Staidhup]

Nevill Chamberlain played the same hand with Hitler out of fear of another war then and was forced to watch the Russians and Germans sign the nonaggression pact and eventually divide up Poland, then all hell broke loose, and the US had to bail out Europe from their own folly once again. The USSR fully understands the consequences of launching a nuclear strike, yet Putin is gambling that Europeans are weaker today than that of their predecessors and will back down letting him have what he wants. He may have a point!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war
Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed Thursday to fulfill Moscow’s goals in Ukraine and sternly warned the West against deeper involvement in the fighting, saying that such a move is fraught with the risk of a global nuclear conflict.

Remote : Thu, 29 Feb 2024 13:05:06 GMT
Local : 2024-02-29(Thursday) 14 : 05 : 06
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

so should the west at this point be the wiser party in the crowd, and just force the Ukranians into negotiations?
with the Donbass given up to Russia, and Ukraine prevented from NATO membership? a neutral country, like the Russians proposed?

Ukraine is not worth another single dollar or life! Make peace, you fools!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

you don't drive a bear into a corner.
it only angers the bear.

Nobody drove the bear anywhere. The genocidal bear couldn't stay within his own borders. I'm really not interested in any more of your regurgitated putin propaganda.

 

[Donald H]

Towards the end of last year the Ukrainians finally began to match and surpass the number of artillery shells fired,

No Tom.

plus they were far more accurate, giving the Russians hell. Now again they are way behind. This is how such “stalemated” wars are lost that could have been won.

The best and most modern artilery shells of both sides were roughly equal Tom.

The morale factor is also crucial. Nobody wants to die for a lost cause and the Ukrainians have already done a lot of dying to be a part of Europe and not Russia.

Zelensky says he's lost 50,000 and other sources say he's lost nealy half a million.

There will be more dying no matter what — especially if Ukraine loses and Russia wrecks its vengeance on them. They have counted on European and U.S. aid and if we betray them now the fallout will be devastating everywhere.

Of course there may be a “cease fire” at some point, but it must happen with Russia paying a price for Putin’s Feb. 24, 2022 invasion of a sovereign country! He must not “fulfill his goals”!

Putin really has no set goal, as the OP claims. What would “to fulfill Moscow’s goals” amount to? Putin wanted and wants to destroy Ukraine’s national existence, and he counts on Trump’s influence and his election to get him just that. Before he was worrying about his own survival only. Let him scurry away and be humiliated and perhaps eliminated. He and others on Russian TV threaten nuclear war every week. It is a danger, of course, but capitulating here will only encourage him and others like North Korea to play this game.

If you can call it a game, then it's a game being played by China and Russia to strip America of ongoing world hegemony.

Right. If it were, we would have our troops in Ukraine right now along with hundreds of thousands of European troops fighting the bloody Russians.

No, you wouldn't. And the reason why Russia is continuing to win the war is because MAD prohibits any remedy America has.

We are not proposing that, but we and Europe are properly building up our conventional military capabilities at home while we actively help Ukraine defend itself. This is necessary to prepare for the future, which does not look very peaceful, and is part of reshoring and rebuilding U.S. industry, U.S. technology, etc.

There's no easy answer to what can end the war. Russians don't surrender and so far at least, America has no incentive to give up its bid to destroy Russia.

 

[justoffal]

Then what should happen? Right now all you have is stalemate that the Russians seem to be gaining the upper hand on.

Russia has quietly restocked both ammo and missiles.
They are producing more main battle tanks per month than they are losing. None of this is a good sign.

 

[justoffal]

Nobody drove the bear anywhere. The genocidal bear couldn't stay within his own borders. I'm really not interested in any more of your regurgitated putin propaganda.

And that's really just it. None of this would be happening right now if not for 10/7.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Russia can enter world’s top four economies – Putin

Russia is already the biggest economy in Europe in PPP terms, and could join the top four globally, according to the Russian president

www.rt.com

Russia has no incentive to negotiate peace at this point in time, and America's only option is in sending more weapons that risk a nuclear conflict.

Donald is quoting Putin’s ridiculous statistics here as reproduced in RT. In fact Russia’s PPP comes in at 34th in Europe. Its economy is remarkably backward outside of a few big cities, it has been run by incompetent oligarchs and mafias and siloviki for decades, and its people’s overall standard of living is abysmal and is stagnating. It cannot even produce a single competitive major commodity on world markets — no cars, no airplanes, no computers, nothing.

GDP per capita PPP - Countries - List | Europe

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - GDP per capita PPP. This page provides values for GDP per capita PPP reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for GDP per capita PPP...

tradingeconomics.com

The only problem is Russia has oil, is a fascistic dictatorship, and Putin is trying his best to develop a full “war economy.” But China is not sending weapons and is driving hard bargains when trading with Russia, as is India, so Russia is actually strangling its long suffering people even more than in the past and weakening its defenses elsewhere.

But it is true that Putin now has no interest in negotiating … but only because he sees the U.S. utterly divided and is gambling that Trump will win the next election or that his movement will paralyze our national will. Putin can only survive if he defeats Ukraine and the West, or can convince Russians and his own regime strongmen that he has won.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[2aguy]

Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war
Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed Thursday to fulfill Moscow’s goals in Ukraine and sternly warned the West against deeper involvement in the fighting, saying that such a move is fraught with the risk of a global nuclear conflict.

Remote : Thu, 29 Feb 2024 13:05:06 GMT
Local : 2024-02-29(Thursday) 14 : 05 : 06
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

so should the west at this point be the wiser party in the crowd, and just force the Ukranians into negotiations?
with the Donbass given up to Russia, and Ukraine prevented from NATO membership? a neutral country, like the Russians proposed?

1st, we need to tell putin that if he uses nuclear weapons we will launch our own and destroy Russia as a country, targeting his location specifically......

Then, we need to sit down with the Ukrainians and work out a peace deal......putin won't be there forever, and that will be the time to deal with what has happened now.

 

[peacefan]

1st, we need to tell putin that if he uses nuclear weapons we will launch our own and destroy Russia as a country, targeting his location specifically......

ok, but i think we need to be careful in our wording, so as not to enflame things in a tinderbox.

Then, we need to sit down with the Ukrainians and work out a peace deal......putin won't be there forever, and that will be the time to deal with what has happened now.

how does working out a peace deal now, with Putin still in power and hungry for the Donbass, get resolved in the Ukranians favor later on?
or did i totally misunderstand you?