Punishment of sinners in Hell are forever because God is infinitely good.

[OZman]

This man is a liar, he states at 3:45 that the bible mentions Hell ten times more than Heaven, which is an outright lie.

Word Counts How Many Times Does a Word Appear in the Bible

What Does the Bible Teach About Hell

 

[Delta4Embassy]

God is perfectly good meaning God is also perfectly just. The perfect justice of God leads Him perfectly judging all sinners for their sins. Sins are crimes done against God, an infinitely good and holy being. Crimes against an infinite God are infinite in nature and the punishments for infinite sins are necessarily infinite. Therefore, sinners are punished by God in Hell, which is forever.



God is infinite in status as Sovereign. All crimes committed against an infinite Sovereign are by definition crimes of infinite magnitude. The sentences for crimes of infinite magnitude, as judged by a perfectly just God, necessarily have to be punishments that are infinite in their nature. Therefore, sinners are justly punished by infinite sufferings that last forever in Hell.

Think Buddhism's concept of Hell was it's temporary. As is Heaven. But then they have reincarnation too so guess that'd make more sense.

Not every religious concept of reward/punishment is as ridiculous as others'.

 

[hobelim]

Sorry, I do not buy into the war god myth ; YHWEH does not practise what he preaches, and no apologetic discourse will change that fact.

LOL... I suppose I went a little off track.

I meant only to point out that the definition of murder in the command to not murder, as Jesus used the term to describe the talking serpent," A murderer from the beginning" has nothing whatever to do with your understanding of the legal definition of the term as a crime of killing the body..

You may not believe in any war god myth, It certainly doesn't affect me one way or the other because I was not trying to be an apologist for such a belief, but since it seemed that way to you and you conveniently avoided responding to the subject of murder, after I showed you the difference between the literal legal and figurative scriptural definition of the term, let me ask you this.

If Moses, according to the myth, was told by God to wage war against a degenerate people who have become blinded by hatred and driven insane by false teaching, violence, and suffering, and to completely destroy them leaving no remnant, is it really any different than people today who have decided that the only righteous course of action to take when faced with such an enemy as al Queda or Isil, or Hamas or Hezbollah, Boko Haram or any other such barbaric group of animals, to completely destroy them?

Current events are certainly no myth.

Do you think it would be wrong to wipe them out? Was it a bad thing to destroy the Nazis who tried to impose their perverse views and barbarism on the world??


,

 

[hobelim]

Think Buddhism's concept of Hell was it's temporary. As is Heaven. But then they have reincarnation too so guess that'd make more sense.

If the Jewish people expect Elijah to return before the messiah appears or if Christians believe that John the baptist was the expected Elijah and also expect Jesus to return, in what way aside from reincarnation could any of those Jewish and Christian beliefs be fulfilled?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Max, Jentzen Franklin is a false teacher. I won't listen to him or any of the rest of those guys. You should not either. The country preacher from Knoxville, Tenn who preached on hell? There is a reason he doesn't have a television show and millions in the bank. He's preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul wasn't a rich man. Neither was James or Timothy or Stephen. They were true servants of Christ. Everywhere they went two things happened - a revival and a riot. When the world loves you and the wide road church loves you? You've departed from the truth.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Think Buddhism's concept of Hell was it's temporary. As is Heaven. But then they have reincarnation too so guess that'd make more sense.

If the Jewish people expect Elijah to return before the messiah appears or if Christians believe that John the baptist was the expected Elijah and also expect Jesus to return, in what way aside from reincarnation could any of those Jewish and Christian beliefs be fulfilled?

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Think Buddhism's concept of Hell was it's temporary. As is Heaven. But then they have reincarnation too so guess that'd make more sense.

If the Jewish people expect Elijah to return before the messiah appears or if Christians believe that John the baptist was the expected Elijah and also expect Jesus to return, in what way aside from reincarnation could any of those Jewish and Christian beliefs be fulfilled?

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

Did Isaiah not prophesy about the Messiah that would come? Did not David prophesy about him and Zechariah too? Were they prophesying about someone "like" the Messiah or "THE MESSIAH"? Jesus Christ IS the Messiah and He was from the beginning. Read John 1:1 and........ There is your answer.

 

[hobelim]

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

You've always read that to mean "someone like them" doesn't answer my question.


"some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!"

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

God's is completely incompatible with sin.

What..? I think your warrior god YAHWEH does not practice what he preaches. THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

Your god is the murderer. Satan is described as the destroyer for a reason. He destroys. Wake up, OZman. Your eternal life is at stake. Watch the video, Max posted of the Preacher in church who preached on hell (stay away from Jentezen Franklin) and listen to his sermon on hell and listen to what he has to say. If you have nothing to fear then why not watch it and at least realize the seriousness of what you are doing.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

You've always read that to mean "someone like them" doesn't answer my question.


"some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!"

Your question requires speculation. My answer answered your question in that I don't believe in those sorts of prophecies being literal. If I were to speculate though, other than those people literally coming back from beyond the grave, cloning seems one way. Just as we can in theory recreate extinct species like Mastadons, presumedly someone dead for far less time could be cloned and 'come back.' Of course, recreating a Biblical figure from their own DNA doesn't bring the individual back, just their body. Everything that made the person unique is still absent as individuality is by way of our brains. Cloning doesn't return the unique combination of memories and experiences a living brain has. You're basicly just creating the meat, not the information in the meat.

 

[hobelim]

Your question requires speculation. My answer answered your question in that I don't believe in those sorts of prophecies being literal. If I were to speculate though, other than those people literally coming back from beyond the grave, cloning seems one way. Just as we can in theory recreate extinct species like Mastadons, presumedly someone dead for far less time could be cloned and 'come back.' Of course, recreating a Biblical figure from their own DNA doesn't bring the individual back, just their body. Everything that made the person unique is still absent as individuality is by way of our brains. Cloning doesn't return the unique combination of memories and experiences a living brain has. You're basicly just creating the meat, not the information in the meat.

Great thoughts, but if the information survives the death of the meat the exact same meat will be perfectly suited to receive back and draw from the information acquired during the first time in the meat..

I also understand it to not be literal because when Elisha asked to receive a double portion of the spirit of Elijah after he was "taken up", he did receive divine inspiration but he didn't become Elijah.

If it is possible to achieve a state of mind pure and coherent enough to survive death of the body
I don't see how it would be impossible for Elijah, for instance, to return and be the exact same Elijah with access to all of the information acquired during his first time in the meat, with just a new body and a new name.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Christ didn't preach hell and damnation. He preached the gospel and kingdom. I much prefer following His example. There is power in it.

I don't think you understand the mystery of eternal punishment though

Jesus Christ preached more on hell than anyone else in the bible, Avatar. Much of what you've been taught in the Mormon church is not the truth about Jesus Christ. I would encourage you to read the King James Bible and you'll find that it does not teach that Jesus Christ and Satan were brothers - spiritual or otherwise. Your Mormon church teaches that God was once a man. Brigham Young taught that. See the Journal of Discourse Volume II page 40. The Mormon people were also taught that God had many wives. Look up The Seer by Orson Patt Page 172 and the Mormon people are also taught that God the Father lives on a planet near the star, Kolob, and he is with his wives having spiritual children. Read Pearl of Great Price Abraham 3:9, 16. It is a false teaching opposed to the Bible which says, Our Father which is in heaven. Matthew 6:9. As I said earlier you are taught Jesus and Satan were Spiritual brothers - see Ensign Magazine December 1980 - But the Bible says that Jesus is God, the Creator of everything, in the earth and in heaven (including Lucifer ) see the Bible Col. 16:18

Furthermore you are taught in the Mormon church that you will become gods and with a planet of your own - see Articles of Faith by James Talmadge Page 430 and the Journal of Discourses shows that Mormons once taught that Jesus had many wives including the two sisters of Lazarus and Mary Magdalene. See Journal of Discourses Volume 1 page 345 and also Volume II Page 210. You were wrongly taught that Jesus couldn't become a god until he married. See Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie pages 117 and 118. But it is written:

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8

Jesus has always been God. See John 1: 1-3 and Revelation 1:8

You are a very nice person, Avatar, but you have been deceived by the false teachings of the Mormon Church and although you have been taught otherwise - if you will read the King James Bible from cover to cover you will see that Jesus Christ did indeed teach more on hell than any other - in the bible. Look it up - do your own research and be free from man made religion. Leave it all and follow Christ. He died for you. Not Brigham Young or Joseph Smith. Jesus Christ is God. Without that confession - you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, Avatar. God loves you and God is Jesus Christ.

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

You've always read that to mean "someone like them" doesn't answer my question.


"some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!"

Your question requires speculation. My answer answered your question in that I don't believe in those sorts of prophecies being literal. If I were to speculate though, other than those people literally coming back from beyond the grave, cloning seems one way. Just as we can in theory recreate extinct species like Mastadons, presumedly someone dead for far less time could be cloned and 'come back.' Of course, recreating a Biblical figure from their own DNA doesn't bring the individual back, just their body. Everything that made the person unique is still absent as individuality is by way of our brains. Cloning doesn't return the unique combination of memories and experiences a living brain has. You're basicly just creating the meat, not the information in the meat.

Wrong. Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

When religions prophesize about the return of some key figure, I've always read that to mean "someone like them." Not the individual literally returning from beyond the grave.

You've always read that to mean "someone like them" doesn't answer my question.


"some people like cupcakes better. I for one care less for them!"

Your question requires speculation. My answer answered your question in that I don't believe in those sorts of prophecies being literal. If I were to speculate though, other than those people literally coming back from beyond the grave, cloning seems one way. Just as we can in theory recreate extinct species like Mastadons, presumedly someone dead for far less time could be cloned and 'come back.' Of course, recreating a Biblical figure from their own DNA doesn't bring the individual back, just their body. Everything that made the person unique is still absent as individuality is by way of our brains. Cloning doesn't return the unique combination of memories and experiences a living brain has. You're basicly just creating the meat, not the information in the meat.

Not at all. It is written:
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer,Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah 13:6

This is prophecy. Who is it speaking of? The Messiah. What does the house of Israel ask the Messiah? Lord! What are these wounds in thine hands?

NOTE THIS - this question shall be asked because they will see the nail wounds in the hands of Jesus Christ. Then Jesus responds with this:

Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

It is the moment of reality that Jesus Christ is the Messiah - the same Messiah their ancestors cried out - Crucify Him!

So this is coming in the future and it is the very same Messiah they wanted crucified. It is the most important moment in the history of the Jews because they will realize Jesus is their Messiah and he will embrace them and it will be a reunion of epic proportions - in other words - it will be the picture of the reunion between Joseph and his brothers - once Joseph removed his disguise - many, many times greater!

What a moment that shall be!

 

[MaxGrit]

Max, Jentzen Franklin is a false teacher. I won't listen to him or any of the rest of those guys. You should not either. The country preacher from Knoxville, Tenn who preached on hell? There is a reason he doesn't have a television show and millions in the bank. He's preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul wasn't a rich man. Neither was James or Timothy or Stephen. They were true servants of Christ. Everywhere they went two things happened - a revival and a riot. When the world loves you and the wide road church loves you? You've departed from the truth.

Thank you Jer.

I posted the video because I like the story. The title of the video is, "Your first night in Hell." You know from the title that it's imaginative fiction. Obviously, it's not a factual account of YOUR first night in Hell. Further more, it's impossible to have a first night in Hell. Hell doesn't have day nor night.

 

[MaxGrit]

A excellent analysis showing how God's infinitely good character leads to eternal punishment of sinners in Hell:

 

[OZman]

Sorry, I do not buy into the war god myth ; YHWEH does not practise what he preaches, and no apologetic discourse will change that fact.

LOL... I suppose I went a little off track.

I meant only to point out that the definition of murder in the command to not murder, as Jesus used the term to describe the talking serpent," A murderer from the beginning" has nothing whatever to do with your understanding of the legal definition of the term as a crime of killing the body..

You may not believe in any war god myth, It certainly doesn't affect me one way or the other because I was not trying to be an apologist for such a belief, but since it seemed that way to you and you conveniently avoided responding to the subject of murder, after I showed you the difference between the literal legal and figurative scriptural definition of the term, let me ask you this.

If Moses, according to the myth, was told by God to wage war against a degenerate people who have become blinded by hatred and driven insane by false teaching, violence, and suffering, and to completely destroy them leaving no remnant, is it really any different than people today who have decided that the only righteous course of action to take when faced with such an enemy as al Queda or Isil, or Hamas or Hezbollah, Boko Haram or any other such barbaric group of animals, to completely destroy them?

Current events are certainly no myth.

Do you think it would be wrong to wipe them out? Was it a bad thing to destroy the Nazis who tried to impose their perverse views and barbarism on the world??


,

Hobelim, I was not referring to Moses, but to the acts commited by YHWH in the bible. I cannot accept that a supreme deity would commit such horrendous acts against his own supposed creation, including mass extermination and eternal damnation in hell (a false teaching). This is murder of both the spirit and flesh, hence the accusation. I am not a believer in the Israelite god YHWH .

 

[Steven_R]

This man is a liar, he states at 3:45 that the bible mentions Hell ten times more than Heaven, which is an outright lie.

Word Counts How Many Times Does a Word Appear in the Bible

What Does the Bible Teach About Hell

Bible teaches that Hell is a real place and that it's eternal.

The Bible also teaches that the stars in the night sky are fixed in place, unchanging, and that in the End of Days will fall to the Earth, all things we know for a fact to be wrong.

 

[Steven_R]

Isaiah 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

Including stars, which die on a regular basis.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 

[hobelim]

Sorry, I do not buy into the war god myth ; YHWEH does not practise what he preaches, and no apologetic discourse will change that fact.

LOL... I suppose I went a little off track.

I meant only to point out that the definition of murder in the command to not murder, as Jesus used the term to describe the talking serpent," A murderer from the beginning" has nothing whatever to do with your understanding of the legal definition of the term as a crime of killing the body..

You may not believe in any war god myth, It certainly doesn't affect me one way or the other because I was not trying to be an apologist for such a belief, but since it seemed that way to you and you conveniently avoided responding to the subject of murder, after I showed you the difference between the literal legal and figurative scriptural definition of the term, let me ask you this.

If Moses, according to the myth, was told by God to wage war against a degenerate people who have become blinded by hatred and driven insane by false teaching, violence, and suffering, and to completely destroy them leaving no remnant, is it really any different than people today who have decided that the only righteous course of action to take when faced with such an enemy as al Queda or Isil, or Hamas or Hezbollah, Boko Haram or any other such barbaric group of animals, to completely destroy them?

Current events are certainly no myth.

Do you think it would be wrong to wipe them out? Was it a bad thing to destroy the Nazis who tried to impose their perverse views and barbarism on the world??


,

Hobelim, I was not referring to Moses, but to the acts commited by YHWH in the bible. I cannot accept that a supreme deity would commit such horrendous acts against his own supposed creation, including mass extermination and eternal damnation in hell (a false teaching). This is murder of both the spirit and flesh, hence the accusation. I am not a believer in the Israelite god YHWH .

Thanks for clearing that up and I do agree, for the most part, but if the planet was not subject to mass extinctions, permitted by God against his own creations, human beings would most likely not exist at all.

What I get is that the Bible was written in figurative language that can be interpreted in many ways as is implied by "the cherubim with flaming and flashing sword that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life", and the verse that states that God has chosen to exist surrounded by thick clouds that obscure perception..

That's why people who think that God is a prick tend to be pricks, those who believe that God is kind tend to be kind, etc.

My guess is that described events, such as the deluge or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah were probably based on actual events that was caused by something that fell from the sky or some other natural event and were embellished and turned into instructional stories for adults and children.

It would have seemed perfectly logical for people living thousands of years ago to conclude that there was an angry God somewhere up there who somehow favored the survivors.

The devastation was real.

 

[orogenicman]

Atheists and humanists don't need the fear of the magic sky daddy to understand right from wrong.

 

[hobelim]

The Bible also teaches that the stars in the night sky are fixed in place, unchanging, and that in the End of Days will fall to the Earth, all things we know for a fact to be wrong.

Everything is in how one looks at it.

Stars falling from their fixed places in the sky high above the ordinary human landscape is just analogous of people in high places falling from their lofty and seemingly untouchable positions.

And exactly like the other end time depictions, mountains crumbling and valleys being lifted up, they are all metaphors for social upheaval and change.

Something we know for a fact to be right and has been happening here and there and all over the world time and time again and you have seen it happening with your own eyes for all of your life, unless you've been living under a rock.