Punishment for Abortion?

[Cecilie1200]

And it used to be legal to kill your slaves as well. And rape your wife.

Just because the legal definition changes only means those things were once legal. It doesn't mean they weren't rape, or murder.

Well, actually, it DOES mean they weren't murder.

 

[Anguille]

What grows inside a woman's body when she is pregnant is human life. When she gets an abortion she destroys this human life. You can duck and dodge and call it a 'parasite' . . . can you deny that it is human? Can you deny that it is alive? You want to support the destruction of this innocent human life, that's your choice. But stop being such a coward and call a spade a spade. Abortion destroys human life.

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for human life astounds me.

It is totally relevant that what grows inside a woman's body is human life. THAT'S the point. If it was an artichoke we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I suppose you have to tell yourself it doesn't matter that it is, in fact, human life because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for female life astounds me.

You a clearly missing my point or avoiding it if you think the only thing relevant to discussions about abort is whether the fetus is to be considered alive or not.

I suppose you have to tell yourself a woman's right to choose who may be inside her body doesn't matter, in fact, because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

 

[Anguille]

What grows inside a woman's body when she is pregnant is human life. When she gets an abortion she destroys this human life. You can duck and dodge and call it a 'parasite' . . . can you deny that it is human? Can you deny that it is alive? You want to support the destruction of this innocent human life, that's your choice. But stop being such a coward and call a spade a spade. Abortion destroys human life.

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

At least you admit that is nothing more than opinion. All of us are entitled to hold incorrect opinions.

Immie

What is incorrect about my opinion? I'm sure you would have pointed it out if there was anything incorrect.

 

[Anguille]

What grows inside a woman's body when she is pregnant is human life. When she gets an abortion she destroys this human life. You can duck and dodge and call it a 'parasite' . . . can you deny that it is human? Can you deny that it is alive? You want to support the destruction of this innocent human life, that's your choice. But stop being such a coward and call a spade a spade. Abortion destroys human life.

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

No, most of the time the sperm was invited by the woman. If she did not want it, she should either not have sex or put up the proper no trespassing signs and fences in the form of practicing good birth control methods.

FYI Fetuses are not sperm.

 

[Anguille]

When a woman's body is carrying a living being her body is no longer hers alone. There's a heatbeat after 22 days from conception, it is a living being and someone needs to speak on its behalf, Lord knows the selfish woman won't. Women that abort are the most selfish, heartless and cowardly people on earth IMO and society should eradicate them.

Suppose a woman gives birth to a baby girl who eventually becomes a woman who has an abortion. Wouldn't it have been better than, for the first woman to have aborted?

"Women that abort are the most selfish, heartless and cowardly people on earth IMO and society should eradicate them."

Pretty strong words but at least you're no hypocrite. You call for death for any woman who aborts because you believe abortion is murder and murder calls for the death penalty. Do I have that right?

What about men who perform, assist or pay for an abortion? Death for them as well? Or just for the women?

I made it pretty clear that anyone involved in murdering an unborn child should be held accountable.

Not in that post. The only thing clear in that post is how much you despise "the selfish woman" which is how you characterize pregnant women.

You neglected to answer my first question.

 

[Anguille]

Having read so many posts by people here who would like to see abortion criminalized and punishable by death or imprisonment, I'm curious to know how these same people think the law should treat pregnant women who declare they are going to get an abortion or who have attempted to induce one but failed. What should be done about pregnant women who are deemed at high risk for aborting? Surely they are a real danger to the life of the fetus. Should they be restrained and prevented from having any opportunity to abort? What would we do with such women?

 

[Immanuel]

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

At least you admit that is nothing more than opinion. All of us are entitled to hold incorrect opinions.

Immie

What is incorrect about my opinion? I'm sure you would have pointed it out if there was anything incorrect.

Need I draw you a map?

Your opinion of whether or not it is a human life. Ever hear of a human mother giving birth to a Chimp?... and don't you dare say "Barbara Bush"!

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Having read so many posts by people here who would like to see abortion criminalized and punishable by death or imprisonment, I'm curious to know how these same people think the law should treat pregnant women who declare they are going to get an abortion or who have attempted to induce one but failed. What should be done about pregnant women who are deemed at high risk for aborting? Surely they are a real danger to the life of the fetus. Should they be restrained and prevented from having any opportunity to abort? What would we do with such women?

It has been a while since I read this entire thread, but I only remember one person who stated that they believed abortion should be criminalized. Most of us on the right would not take that step. Some did state that if it were criminalized there would be some degree of punishment, but only one person indicated they believed it should be.

I'm speaking of Lonestar_Logic and please forgive me L_L if I am putting words in your mouth, did I miss someone else?

Immie

 

[Anguille]

At least you admit that is nothing more than opinion. All of us are entitled to hold incorrect opinions.

Immie

What is incorrect about my opinion? I'm sure you would have pointed it out if there was anything incorrect.

Need I draw you a map?

Your opinion of whether or not it is a human life. Ever hear of a human mother giving birth to a Chimp?... and don't you dare say "Barbara Bush"!

Immie

lol!!!!!

I think both you and zoom have missed my point.

The question is whether a woman has the right to abort an unwanted being, whether that being be human life or not, from her body. It makes no difference if a fetus is human life or not, a fetus has no right to inhabit the body of a woman who wants it out.

Forced birth is really not much different from rape.

 

[Immanuel]

What is incorrect about my opinion? I'm sure you would have pointed it out if there was anything incorrect.

Need I draw you a map?

Your opinion of whether or not it is a human life. Ever hear of a human mother giving birth to a Chimp?... and don't you dare say "Barbara Bush"!

Immie

lol!!!!!

I think both you and zoom have missed my point.

The question is whether a woman has the right to abort an unwanted being, whether that being be human life or not, from her body. It makes no difference if a fetus is human life or not, a fetus has no right to inhabit the body of a woman who wants it out.

Forced birth is really not much different from rape.

Again, that is another one of your opinions and incorrect as well. But there is a funny thing about opinions. We're all entitled to our own, right or wrong.

You know it is funny. In some ways, both sides of the issue agree.

Both sides agree that a woman has a choice (except in the rare case of rape) and both sides agree that the baby has a right to life. The only question to be solved is... when!

When does the woman have the right to choose?

The left side says up until X period (I'll leave that as a variable because different people on the left define when that point of time is) of time.
The right side says the woman has the right to choose up until X period. Here IMHO, X is much more strictly defined as in "conception", although that is not steadfast as many define it as viability or some point in between. The woman has the right to choose up until the point of conception.

When does the baby have the right to live?

The left side again says up until X period of time. Again this is variable depending upon whom on the left you ask.
The right side says the baby has the right to life from X and again more strictly defines X as conception.

Now... if we could only bring the Left's X and the Right's X closer together maybe we could arrive at some kind of solution.

Alas, the chances of doing that are nil because we are all entitled to our own opinions... despite how wrong your's is. /ducks

By the way, I'm entitled to my opinion (right or wrong) too.

Immie

 

[froggy]

Like anything else, a slap on the hand and tell them not to do it again.

 

[Anguille]

Need I draw you a map?

Your opinion of whether or not it is a human life. Ever hear of a human mother giving birth to a Chimp?... and don't you dare say "Barbara Bush"!

Immie

lol!!!!!

I think both you and zoom have missed my point.

The question is whether a woman has the right to abort an unwanted being, whether that being be human life or not, from her body. It makes no difference if a fetus is human life or not, a fetus has no right to inhabit the body of a woman who wants it out.

Forced birth is really not much different from rape.

Again, that is another one of your opinions and incorrect as well. But there is a funny thing about opinions. We're all entitled to our own, right or wrong.

You know it is funny. In some ways, both sides of the issue agree.

Both sides agree that a woman has a choice (except in the rare case of rape) and both sides agree that the baby has a right to life. The only question to be solved is... when!

When does the woman have the right to choose?

The left side says up until X period (I'll leave that as a variable because different people on the left define when that point of time is) of time.
The right side says the woman has the right to choose up until X period. Here IMHO, X is much more strictly defined as in "conception", although that is not steadfast as many define it as viability or some point in between. The woman has the right to choose up until the point of conception.

When does the baby have the right to live?

The left side again says up until X period of time. Again this is variable depending upon whom on the left you ask.

I think you meant to say after, not up to.

The right side says the baby has the right to life from X and again more strictly defines X as conception.

Now... if we could only bring the Left's X and the Right's X closer together maybe we could arrive at some kind of solution.

Alas, the chances of doing that are nil because we are all entitled to our own opinions... despite how wrong your's is. /ducks

By the way, I'm entitled to my opinion (right or wrong) too.

Immie

I pretty much agree with your post but once again it does not address the point I was making.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but fortunately our laws currently almost entirely protect women from forced birth and from rape.

 

[Anguille]

Rather than punish women who abort I think this country should reward them. They are doing their part to save us and our planet from overpopulation.

 

[Immanuel]

lol!!!!!

I think both you and zoom have missed my point.

The question is whether a woman has the right to abort an unwanted being, whether that being be human life or not, from her body. It makes no difference if a fetus is human life or not, a fetus has no right to inhabit the body of a woman who wants it out.

Forced birth is really not much different from rape.

Again, that is another one of your opinions and incorrect as well. But there is a funny thing about opinions. We're all entitled to our own, right or wrong.

You know it is funny. In some ways, both sides of the issue agree.

Both sides agree that a woman has a choice (except in the rare case of rape) and both sides agree that the baby has a right to life. The only question to be solved is... when!

When does the woman have the right to choose?

The left side says up until X period (I'll leave that as a variable because different people on the left define when that point of time is) of time.
The right side says the woman has the right to choose up until X period. Here IMHO, X is much more strictly defined as in "conception", although that is not steadfast as many define it as viability or some point in between. The woman has the right to choose up until the point of conception.

When does the baby have the right to live?

The left side again says up until X period of time. Again this is variable depending upon whom on the left you ask.

I think you meant to say after, not up to.

Correct. Thanks for pointing that out.

The right side says the baby has the right to life from X and again more strictly defines X as conception.

Now... if we could only bring the Left's X and the Right's X closer together maybe we could arrive at some kind of solution.

Alas, the chances of doing that are nil because we are all entitled to our own opinions... despite how wrong your's is. /ducks

By the way, I'm entitled to my opinion (right or wrong) too.

Immie

I pretty much agree with your post but once again it does not address the point I was making.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but fortunately our laws currently almost entirely protect women from forced birth and from rape.

Yeah, but that is again your opinion. When you put "fortunately" in there you make it your opinion. Not everyone agrees with your statement although, I am not saying I think women should be forced to give birth (as in forced breeding) but that is not the case here. A woman has the right to choose to have children or not. The question is when does that choice interfere with the right of the child? She can choose to have intercourse or she can choose not to have intercourse. She can choose protection or not.

Nor am saying women should not be protected from rape.

Gotta run for a bit. Probably won't be back for several hours.

If I don't get back tonight, Good night and talk to you later.

Immie

 

[Zoom-boing]

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for human life astounds me.

It is totally relevant that what grows inside a woman's body is human life. THAT'S the point. If it was an artichoke we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I suppose you have to tell yourself it doesn't matter that it is, in fact, human life because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for female life astounds me.

You a clearly missing my point or avoiding it if you think the only thing relevant to discussions about abort is whether the fetus is to be considered alive or not.

I suppose you have to tell yourself a woman's right to choose who may be inside her body doesn't matter, in fact, because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

I get it. In your world a woman's 'choice' trumps 'human life'. At least you admit that your pov is that the human life inside the woman isn't worth anything. It's just easily discarded like a piece of trash.

 

[Anguille]

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for human life astounds me.

It is totally relevant that what grows inside a woman's body is human life. THAT'S the point. If it was an artichoke we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I suppose you have to tell yourself it doesn't matter that it is, in fact, human life because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for female life astounds me.

You a clearly missing my point or avoiding it if you think the only thing relevant to discussions about abort is whether the fetus is to be considered alive or not.

I suppose you have to tell yourself a woman's right to choose who may be inside her body doesn't matter, in fact, because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

I get it. In your world a woman's 'choice' trumps 'human life'. At least you admit that your pov is that the human life inside the woman isn't worth anything. It's just easily discarded like a piece of trash.

Once again you misconstrue my statements. I have never said fetuses are worth nothing or pieces of trash.

But keep up with that sleazy sort of tactic, that along with the photo you posted for shock value. It doesn't seem you are really here for honest debate anyway.

 

[Christopher]

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

No, most of the time the sperm was invited by the woman. If she did not want it, she should either not have sex or put up the proper no trespassing signs and fences in the form of practicing good birth control methods.

FYI Fetuses are not sperm.

Yes, I am aware of that. What you are ignoring is how the fetus got there. Which, as I said, is usually through invitation by the woman of the sperm and/or the woman not taking proper steps to prevent conception from taking place.

Are you trying to say the fetus just grew on its own and that no choices were made or actions taken by the woman to allow the fetus to grow in her body in the first place?

 

[Anguille]

No, most of the time the sperm was invited by the woman. If she did not want it, she should either not have sex or put up the proper no trespassing signs and fences in the form of practicing good birth control methods.

FYI Fetuses are not sperm.

Yes, I am aware of that. What you are ignoring is how the fetus got there. Which, as I said, is usually through invitation by the woman of the sperm and/or the woman not taking proper steps to prevent conception from taking place.

Are you trying to say the fetus just grew on its own and that no choices were made or actions taken by the woman to allow the fetus to grow in her body in the first place?

It doesn't matter if a woman is the biggest slut on earth, she has a right to abort if she wants to.
You people aren't about protecting life. You're about controlling woman's bodies and restricting thier freedom.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Once again you misconstrue my statements. I have never said fetuses are worth nothing or pieces of trash.

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for female life astounds me.

You a clearly missing my point or avoiding it if you think the only thing relevant to discussions about abort is whether the fetus is to be considered alive or not.

I suppose you have to tell yourself a woman's right to choose who may be inside her body doesn't matter, in fact, because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

Ang, when you posted those two bolded above . . . how am I not suppose to think that you think the unborn are nothing but disposable trash? 'It's irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not'?? You believe that a woman's choice comes before that of the human life that grows inside of her. Am I misunderstanding your pov?

But keep up with that sleazy sort of tactic, that along with the photo you posted for shock value. It doesn't seem you are really here for honest debate anyway.

What 'sleazy sort of tactic'? I didn't post the photo for shock value . . . this was one of the less gruesome ones. I posted it because abortion is the taking of innocent human life. A woman made the choice to abort that child and that picture show the result of what abortion is and what it does. Shocking? I find it horrific.

If you see abortion as primarily about a woman's choice vs. the destruction of human life, that's your choice. But a woman's choice does destroy human life. Period.

 

[Anguille]

Once again you misconstrue my statements. I have never said fetuses are worth nothing or pieces of trash.

IMO, it is irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not, A fetus inhabiting the body of a human who wishes to evict it has no right to continue trespassing. No such thing as squatter's rights when it comes to a person's body.

Wow, just . . . . wow. Your casual disregard for female life astounds me.

You a clearly missing my point or avoiding it if you think the only thing relevant to discussions about abort is whether the fetus is to be considered alive or not.

I suppose you have to tell yourself a woman's right to choose who may be inside her body doesn't matter, in fact, because you have to justify your position and choice somehow.

Ang, when you posted those two bolded above . . . how am I not suppose to think that you think the unborn are nothing but disposable trash? 'It's irrelevant whether a fetus is human life or not'?? You believe that a woman's choice comes before that of the human life that grows inside of her. Am I misunderstanding your pov?

I'll take a chance that you are truly misunderstanding me and not just trying to trash talk about me, as it were. Yes, a woman's right to determine the future of a pregnancy occurring within her womb trumps that of any supposed right a fetus may have, regardless of it that fetus is equal to or some form of human life. I value fully formed human life over any kind of not fully formed or future life to come. I do not know when life begins but I think the right to life begins when a baby is born and takes it's first breath of air.
That does not mean a fetus is worthless, that it is trash. Fetuses mean a lot to most women who carry them, whether they carry them to tern or not, and the decision to abort is a difficult one for most.
You have accused me of calling fetuses worthless pieces of trash, or something to that effect. Something I have never said. You claim to deduct that from my stated opinions. I could, by the same reasoning, claim you think women are pieces of worthless trash. But I have not claimed that. though some here clearly do.

But keep up with that sleazy sort of tactic, that along with the photo you posted for shock value. It doesn't seem you are really here for honest debate anyway.

What 'sleazy sort of tactic'? I didn't post the photo for shock value . . . this was one of the less gruesome ones. I posted it because abortion is the taking of innocent human life. A woman made the choice to abort that child and that picture is the result of what abortion is and what it does. Shocking? I find it horrific.

Horrific? And what was that about not posting it for shock value? I'll bet you can't even prove the validity of that photo which you probably grabbed off one of the many forced birther sites that post doctored up photos

If you see abortion as primarily about a woman's choice vs. the destruction of human life, that's your choice. But a woman's choice does destroy human life. Period.

When life begins is not something everyone agrees on and so best left up to the woman who is pregnant to decide for herself without interference from anyone else.