Zone1 Protestants never tell you which Church in the world goes back in time to the Resurrection

[BS Filter]

Others prior to the JW religion clearly see that Michael is Jesus. 1Thess 4:16--Is it Jesus' voice? Or does Michael loan Jesus his voice?

1 Thess 4:16 doesn't say Michael.

 

[kjw47]

Michael isn't mentioned either.

Michael is the only one who has the archangels voice. Michael is Jesus.

 

[kjw47]

So Jesus is a false god, huh.

Only by trinity standards-He is no God at all. God does it all through him( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6) giving him godlike qualities=god small g.

 

[kjw47]

1 Thess 4:16 doesn't say Michael.

He is the only one with the archangels voice. 1+1=2

 

[BS Filter]

Michael is the only one who has the archangels voice. Michael is Jesus.

Show me that Scripture that says Michael is the only one who has the archangels voice.

 

[BS Filter]

Only by trinity standards-He is no God at all. God does it all through him( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6) giving him godlike qualities=god small g.

Scripture says the FULLNESS of God is in Christ. You're wrong again.

 

[BS Filter]

He is the only one with the archangels voice. 1+1=2

Show me the Scripture.

 

[foggedinn]

When God brought me back into the church in 2005 I walked into the nearest mainstream protestant church to my house. It was a Southern Baptist church. Having never been in a Baptist church before I asked them about doctrine. They said oh, we get our doctrine from the bible.
What a non-answer answer. It's clear that the church has lost all understanding of doctrine. The Methodists aren't any better. I tried to explain that my own doctrine was based on the Day of Atonement. They told me how OT scripture is just quaint story's. They are a New Testament church. I understand why people are drawn to the catholic church.

 

[BS Filter]

When God brought me back into the church in 2005 I walked into the nearest mainstream protestant church to my house. It was a Southern Baptist church. Having never been in a Baptist church before I asked them about doctrine. They said oh, we get our doctrine from the bible.
What a non-answer answer. It's clear that the church has lost all understanding of doctrine. The Methodists aren't any better. I tried to explain that my own doctrine was based on the Day of Atonement. They told me how OT scripture is just quaint story's. They are a New Testament church. I understand why people are drawn to the catholic church.

Try a nondenominational church. Try a bunch till you find one that preaches Jesus.

 

[ninja007]

i read this far

I don't know what you are talking about, really. I am not talking about adding layers of bureaucracy.

What I say is that Jesus told us to do many things, not just believe. Even the demons believe and tremble.. James 2:12

Belief is NOTHING. . belief by itself

Jesus said that if you love Him, you will ... What?

Keep his commandments. That means DOING things... like being kind when you don't feel like it.. loving when you feel like hating. That is work sometimes. Then there is taking care of the needy. Today in the Mass readings from Isaiah 58 it says that God tells the people

something like this

You call this a fast?

Then God says what a real fast is to Him: feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless

Most people seem to despise the homeless, even so called Christians don't like them... There are people on Fox News who claim to be Christian but never have a thing good to say about the homeless, act like every single one of them is a drug addict criminal or something...

Jesus died for humans made in his image not demons.

 

[ninja007]

Michael is the only one who has the archangels voice. Michael is Jesus.

Don Stewart :: Is It Possible to Identify Michael the Archangel with Jesus?​

There have been those who have attempted to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus - that they are the same person. Some feel that Michael is Jesus Christ appearing in a temporary form, such as Christ did as the angel of the LORD.

Different View Than Watchtower

This is different than the view of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe that Christ is a created being who was Michael the archangel in the Old Testament - a view totally incompatible with what the Bible says about Jesus.

Case For Michael Being Jesus

The arguments for Michael's identification as being the Pre-incarnate Christ are as follows:

Michael Is The Chief Prince And Protector

Michael is called the chief prince of God's people. He is also called the protector of the people Israel. The Bible teaches that the Lord is the one who protects Israel.

My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth. He will not allow your foot to slip; He who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, He who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep (Psalm 121:2-4).

The argument goes like this: If the LORD protects Israel, and Michael is the one who is called the protector of the people, then Michael must be the LORD who is protecting the people.

The Coming Of Christ

The Bible says that when Christ returns, He will come with the voice, or cry of command, of the archangel.

For the Lord Himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Since Christ comes with the voice of the archangel, the argument goes that He must be that archangel. The only archangel named in Scripture is Michael.

Response

The biblical evidence does not substantiate this. The fact that Michael is called a chief prince only means that he has authority over other angels- not over everything that exists.
In addition, Jesus is never called the chief prince in Scripture. On the contrary He is the king of kings and Lord of Lords.

And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16).

Though Michael has protected Israel, it is as God's representative. It is ultimately the Lord, not Michael, who is protecting His chosen people.

Voice Like

The fact that Christ comes with the voice, or cry of command, like an archangel does not mean that He is one. The voice He uses will be "like" or "as" that of an archangel. In other words, a powerful voice.

One Of The Chief Princes

In addition, Michael is called one of the chief princes.

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me twenty-one days. So Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia (Daniel 10:13).

This means that he is one of a group of princes. We do not know how large the group is, but he is not in a class by himself. The Bible says that Jesus is the unique Son of God.

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known (John 1:18).

Michael Highest Of Angels

Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16).

Jude

There is a further problem with the identification of Jesus with Michael. The Book of Jude says:

But when the archangel Michael contended with the Devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 9).

Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Then the Devil left Him, and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him (Matthew 4:10,11).

His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

Summary

There is no biblical evidence to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus. To the contrary, Jesus and Michael are two different personages. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings while Jesus is the uncreated Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.

 

[hadit]

sorry, but I don't find that in the Bible.

Everyone wants to act like being saved is a simple one liner you say to Jesus and then voila.. you're in

Well, the canonized saints say VERY very few make it to Heaven. \

Don't want to believe them? What about Jesus who said that the road is Narrow and there are FEW who find it?

Salvation is an ongoing process that lasts until the day you drop dead

Let's see about this:

1. We are saved through faith and belief, that is not even controversial in the Bible.
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:

There are other passages that say the same things, but since you are aware of them, I need not post them.

Now, about works:

James 2:
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that salvation comes by faith and works follow as the result of that salvation. If you claim to have faith, but don't follow what Christ has commanded, you are only pretending. But, let's look at works without faith:

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Faith and works go together, but salvation itself comes through faith and belief. If you don't then obey Christ after you receive salvation through faith, you can't prove that you have faith. If you try to earn your salvation through works but don't have faith, repent of your sin and allow the Holy Spirit to transform you, you won't earn a thing. Think of it this way, a literal death bed conversion puts a person in heaven with Christ just as surely as a childhood conversion followed by a lifetime of service. The latter will have more rewards for service than the former, but salvation comes to each equally. Likewise, a person who labors his entire life to do good things but refuses to humble himself before God and trust Jesus to pay his debt of sin is just as surely condemned to eternity without God as a person who dies after a life lived in sin without salvation.

Ultimately, and you have to be honest to hear this, if works could save ANYONE, Jesus died for nothing, and I for one will not presume to tell Him that. I will accept His offer of salvation and not try to earn it. I will do good works because I love and obey Him, not because I think they will do anything to earn me salvation. I'll ask you this question. If you really think you have to (or even can) earn salvation through works, how many does it take? Does someone earn more salvation by doing more works than someone who doesn't do as many? Back up your answer with Scripture.

John 19:

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

It's done, complete, the debt erased, nothing more needs to be done.

 

[hadit]

Then you explain to all why Gods name has been removed against his will in your translations? Try explaining it to God.

Okay, we have nothing more to substantiate that than the word of your "translators" who "translated" the Bible but not from the original languages.

Tell us, how can you maintain that fiction when the original Hebrew has multiple DIFFERENT names for God that reveal different facets of His character? If they didn't intend to use different names, why did they use different names, and why did you bastardize what they wrote to fit your pre-conceived ideas?

 

[BS Filter]

Yes the #1 commandment-means another who gets worship. Because Jesus is called-god and so is satan. Jehovah is God, the only true God. Thus Jesus does not get worship. He gets obeisance.

Jesus is Jehovah.

 

[hadit]

Others prior to the JW religion clearly see that Michael is Jesus. 1Thess 4:16--Is it Jesus' voice? Or does Michael loan Jesus his voice?

When a judge enters a court room, Does he yell, "All rise"? When a the honored guest at a party arrives, does he announce himself? No to both.

 

[hadit]

Only by trinity standards-He is no God at all. God does it all through him( Acts 2:22, 1 Cor 8:5-6) giving him godlike qualities=god small g.

Yet He created everything that was created. Therefore, he cannot be created.

 

[hadit]

Yes the #1 commandment-means another who gets worship. Because Jesus is called-god and so is satan. Jehovah is God, the only true God. Thus Jesus does not get worship. He gets obeisance.

Where does God say to give obeisance or worship to anyone other than Himself?

Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

 

[hadit]

Michael is the only one who has the archangels voice. Michael is Jesus.

Oh, so Michael is the Word of God? He is "Lord of Lords"? He became flesh and gave himself as the sacrifice for the worlds' sin? Michael had his own glory with God before the world began?

Are you starting to see how preposterous your belief is?

 

[1miseryindex]

You cannot argue effectively against a JW if you are a "fundamentalist" Christian or Catholic Christian. They have a totally different "bible"

They do not deny this (normally)

 

[onefour1]

Don Stewart :: Is It Possible to Identify Michael the Archangel with Jesus?​

There have been those who have attempted to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus - that they are the same person. Some feel that Michael is Jesus Christ appearing in a temporary form, such as Christ did as the angel of the LORD.

Different View Than Watchtower

This is different than the view of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the Jehovah's Witnesses. They believe that Christ is a created being who was Michael the archangel in the Old Testament - a view totally incompatible with what the Bible says about Jesus.

Case For Michael Being Jesus

The arguments for Michael's identification as being the Pre-incarnate Christ are as follows:

Michael Is The Chief Prince And Protector

Michael is called the chief prince of God's people. He is also called the protector of the people Israel. The Bible teaches that the Lord is the one who protects Israel.



The argument goes like this: If the LORD protects Israel, and Michael is the one who is called the protector of the people, then Michael must be the LORD who is protecting the people.

The Coming Of Christ

The Bible says that when Christ returns, He will come with the voice, or cry of command, of the archangel.



Since Christ comes with the voice of the archangel, the argument goes that He must be that archangel. The only archangel named in Scripture is Michael.

Response

The biblical evidence does not substantiate this. The fact that Michael is called a chief prince only means that he has authority over other angels- not over everything that exists.
In addition, Jesus is never called the chief prince in Scripture. On the contrary He is the king of kings and Lord of Lords.



Though Michael has protected Israel, it is as God's representative. It is ultimately the Lord, not Michael, who is protecting His chosen people.

Voice Like

The fact that Christ comes with the voice, or cry of command, like an archangel does not mean that He is one. The voice He uses will be "like" or "as" that of an archangel. In other words, a powerful voice.

One Of The Chief Princes

In addition, Michael is called one of the chief princes.



This means that he is one of a group of princes. We do not know how large the group is, but he is not in a class by himself. The Bible says that Jesus is the unique Son of God.



Michael Highest Of Angels

Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings. He is one of the angels, he is not the Creator of the angels as the Bible says that Jesus is.



Jude

There is a further problem with the identification of Jesus with Michael. The Book of Jude says:



Michael is obviously not the Lord. He could not rebuke the Devil on his own, but rather called upon the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus has no such problem with the Devil - He personally rebuked him, since He is the Lord.



His Name Bears Testimony

Michael, the one who is closest in proximity to the Lord at the top of the angelic creation, bears testimony to the great gap between the Creator and the created. His name means, "who is like God?" The answer, of course, is no one. The closer one gets to God, the more they realize their own nothingness and His greatness. Neither Michael, nor any of the angels, is like God.

Summary

There is no biblical evidence to equate Michael the archangel with Jesus. To the contrary, Jesus and Michael are two different personages. Michael is the highest of the angels - an order of created beings while Jesus is the uncreated Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son.

Through revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith we learn that Michael is Adam.

Michael​

• See also Adam; Archangel

The name by which Adam was known in the premortal life. He is called the Archangel. In Hebrew the name means “Who is like God.”

• Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help Daniel, Dan. 10:13, 21 (D&C 78:16).
• In the last days shall Michael stand up, the great prince, Dan. 12:1.
• Michael the archangel contended with the devil, Jude 1:9.
• Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, Rev. 12:7 (Dan. 7).
• Michael is Adam, D&C 27:11 (D&C 107:53–57; 128:21).
• Michael, the Lord’s archangel, shall sound his trump, D&C 29:26.
• Michael will gather his armies and fight Satan, D&C 88:112–115.
• The voice of Michael was heard detecting the devil, D&C 128:20.