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Jehovah didn't create the universe?ajwps said:Douglas Jehovah was never G-d but Adon-a is the Creator of the universe.
I never said that God prayed to Himself or died on any cross. Jesus Christ, the Son of God came down to earth, prayed to God, and died on the cross. God the Father (a completely separate being), all the while was in heaven, or wherever He happened/wanted to be.ajwps said:No! The unknowable and unimaginable Eloh-m doesn't sit around praying to himself or pleading with himself for a reason why He has abandoned himself on a wooden cross. When those who saw Christ thought they were seeing G-d, they weren't.
Shazbot said:Jehovah didn't create the universe?
I never said that God prayed to Himself or died on any cross. Jesus Christ, the Son of God came down to earth, prayed to God, and died on the cross. God the Father (a completely separate being), all the while was in heaven, or wherever He happened/wanted to be.
-Douglas
Yeah, I know. It is a defining factor in my faith. It was actually a point of conversation I had in another thread with...I think it was Gop_Jeff. Don't quote me on that, though, as I am too lazy to look it up. I just don't accept the Trinity theory in that one God is made up of three beings that are actually one being... To me, that sounds more like the Hindu god Brahma (sp?), Brahma being made up of Brahman, Shiva, and one other god that I can't remember.ajwps said:Douglas do you realize what you have just said? Our Christian friends make take a bit of exception with your conclusion.....
ajwps said:yud-hey-vav-hey pronounced in Hebrew Ad-ni but in English yaway or Jehovah. But what is in a name? The UNKOWN....
Douglas do you realize what you have just said? Our Christian friends make take a bit of exception with your conclusion.....
dilloduck said:I think your Christian "friends" will understand that there is no room for opposing religious views in Judaism.
ajwps said:Who cares what anyone understands? Religion and beliefs are personal and usually not open for discussion or opposing views.
gop_jeff said:That's funny... why then are you constantly discussing your opposing views in every thread in here?
ajwps said:It isn't funny at all. Actually my intent was that discussing opposing views was wrong but actually the proposing of opposing religious evangelizing views as the only way to truth which is wrong. Ergo, I have never tried to convert anyone to Judaism in any thread by discussion opposing views.
gop_jeff said:So would you say that attempting to convert someone to a different faith through discussion is wrong?
While there is no doubt Israel is fulfilling prophecy about the end times in their becoming a nation again, and fighting off the rest of the world (very soon), there are other things to look at as well.
While not my main point of interest, here is something worth looking at in relation to Israel and the mid-east that is commonly ignored:
This is the Gog/Magog war that starts the End-Times. Notice the bold. The reference to the "wall".
Coincidence? -No. Prophecy. Only Israel is in posession of a wall. Only Israel stands opposed and convicted by world courts to bring it down. -Therefore they become "without walls".
This is happening before our eyes.
-But that is OLD TESTAMENT prophecy for end times. (meaning it was written earlier than Jesus appeared.)
I wanted to bring forth another prophecy from the NEW TESTAMENT. Discussion with AJ (thanks!) made me realize that with such an important role, prophecy is not looked at very often IN the new Testament to look at PROOF as the Bible being of devine origin.
Now, then, I submit a bit about the End times as written in Revelation 6:6
Now. Notice 6:6. While the rest discusses (in order of event)-
1. an antichrist coming by waging a war of "peace"
2. a spirit of war across the land unlike any we have ever known
3. an economic downfall
We are going to look at the next item which many miss.
6:6 claims-
1 measure of wheat will cost 1 penny.
3 measures of barley will cost 1 penny.
Oil and wine will be untouched.
Interesting?
What does it mean?
We first need to understand "penny".
http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=denarius
This is also evidenced by the literal breakdown of original Greek.:
So the penny today is the DENARIUS of when the book was written. -It was the basic unit of monetary value then. While the VALUE today would be as our penny, it was the STANDARD as the Japanese Yen, or American dollar.
In other words, if we were looking at the denarius in current terms, it would be worth a penny, but ordering a burger from McDonalds would cost 200 pennies, not 2 dollars. Dollars would not be the standard "term". Pennies would be.
As such, we need to understand how much a denarius was back then in value to know what the verse is assigning these items as a value.
Denarius
What does this mean?
(Keep in mind this was written roughly 2000 years ago.)
The Bible tells us that 1 measure of wheat will cost 1 penny: (1 denarius) which is EQUAL TO A DAY'S WAGE.
It says 3 measures of barley will cost the same.
In other words, These two main staples will cost a fortune.
-Yet wine and oil will stay cheap. How?
Food Ingredients & Food Science - Additives, Flavours, Starch
Read the article.
It gets worse.
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Rice yields dip as planet warms
A bushel of wheat for a day's wage. -And we see it coming.
What about wine?
Sales cut as Bordeaux goes into red
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....HUCRBAE0CFEY?type=reutersEdge&storyID=5599205
Even Australia is getting in on it.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10087129%5E1702,00.html
So.
We have an excess of wine and a shortage of main staple wheat and barley.
The wine will cost almost nothing while a bushel of wheat and 3 of barley will each cost a day's wage.
We have a predictable problem with obvious ramifications.
We have a Biblical text which claims this will happen in the end times.
We have now an issue:
2000 years ago, could anyone have seen this coming?
God did.
-And it unfolds before your very eyes RIGHT NOW.
Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. Perhaps you only call Jews people who are of the tribe of Judah. Hebrew would be a more specific term.Interesting observation of yours that "the apostles themselves wrote their accounts which were later compiled into books." Is there any physical evidence of this premise? Are there any papyrus fragments from the apostles or disciples of Jesus existing gospel documents with the name of the authors that have been either carbon dated or other dating methods giving credence to apostles writing down the gospel books during Jesus time on earth?
Kind of like saying that Francis Bacon was the author of the Shakespearean works instead of poor William S. Who knows but the controversy goes on and on. Without the original gospel texts with the authors name, your premis is simply part of your faith and not proven.
Out of context? Paul even in your own version of the chapter admits that even if 'people preaching Christ for reasons other than faith and conviction (out of envy or spite) get converts, Paul of Tarsus rejoices in this fact.
WHY is it necessary to rejoice in people who preach Christianity out of evil or malicious reasons get converts? Paul the most prolific writer in the Gospels rejoices while god accepts converts who were converted out of LIES from these 'other folks.' What kind of god then is Christ who seemingly doesn't care how he gets people to believe that he is a god?
Was Paul of Tarsus a Jew? Did you not read the NT Corinthian verse said by the (JEW) Paul who readily admits that he pretends to be a Jew to the Jews in order to convert them to Christ? Let me repaste it for you so that you won't fail to mention it in your reply.
Opinions about the authors of the Gospel are just opinions with no proofs. And Paul admits that he was never a Jew but only when he found it expedient to steal the Jewish souls from G-d.
Who converted Jesus to a new religion where he was a god?
Interesting observation of yours that "the apostles themselves wrote their accounts which were later compiled into books." Is there any physical evidence of this premise? Are there any papyrus fragments from the apostles or disciples of Jesus existing gospel documents with the name of the authors that have been either carbon dated or other dating methods giving credence to apostles writing down the gospel books during Jesus time on earth?
Kind of like saying that Francis Bacon was the author of the Shakespearean works instead of poor William S. Who knows but the controversy goes on and on. Without the original gospel texts with the authors name, your premis is simply part of your faith and not proven.
Out of context? Paul even in your own version of the chapter admits that even if 'people preaching Christ for reasons other than faith and conviction (out of envy or spite) get converts, Paul of Tarsus rejoices in this fact.
WHY is it necessary to rejoice in people who preach Christianity out of evil or malicious reasons get converts? Paul the most prolific writer in the Gospels rejoices while god accepts converts who were converted out of LIES from these 'other folks.' What kind of god then is Christ who seemingly doesn't care how he gets people to believe that he is a god?
Was Paul of Tarsus a Jew? Did you not read the NT Corinthian verse said by the (JEW) Paul who readily admits that he pretends to be a Jew to the Jews in order to convert them to Christ? Let me repaste it for you so that you won't fail to mention it in your reply.
Opinions about the authors of the Gospel are just opinions with no proofs. And Paul admits that he was never a Jew but only when he found it expedient to steal the Jewish souls from G-d.
Who converted Jesus to a new religion where he was a god?
