Prophecy being fulfilled in front of our eyes

[NewGuy]

While there is no doubt Israel is fulfilling prophecy about the end times in their becoming a nation again, and fighting off the rest of the world (very soon), there are other things to look at as well.

While not my main point of interest, here is something worth looking at in relation to Israel and the mid-east that is commonly ignored:

Ezekiel chapter 38
King James Version
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

This is the Gog/Magog war that starts the End-Times. Notice the bold. The reference to the "wall".

Coincidence? -No. Prophecy. Only Israel is in posession of a wall. Only Israel stands opposed and convicted by world courts to bring it down. -Therefore they become "without walls".

This is happening before our eyes.

-But that is OLD TESTAMENT prophecy for end times. (meaning it was written earlier than Jesus appeared.)

I wanted to bring forth another prophecy from the NEW TESTAMENT. Discussion with AJ (thanks!) made me realize that with such an important role, prophecy is not looked at very often IN the new Testament to look at PROOF as the Bible being of devine origin.

Now, then, I submit a bit about the End times as written in Revelation 6:6

Revelation chapter 6
King James Version
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Now. Notice 6:6. While the rest discusses (in order of event)-
1. an antichrist coming by waging a war of "peace"
2. a spirit of war across the land unlike any we have ever known
3. an economic downfall

We are going to look at the next item which many miss.

6:6 claims-
1 measure of wheat will cost 1 penny.
3 measures of barley will cost 1 penny.
Oil and wine will be untouched.

Interesting?
What does it mean?

We first need to understand "penny".

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=denarius

DENARIUS: Dictionary Entry and Meaning
Webster's 1913 Dictionary Definition:

\De*na"ri*us\, n.; pl. {Denarii}. [L. See 2d {Denier}.]
A Roman silver coin of the value of about fourteen cents; the
``penny'' of the New Testament; -- so called from being worth
originally ten of the pieces called as.

This is also evidenced by the literal breakdown of original Greek.:

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Revelation 6:6 kai <2532> {AND} hkousa <191> (5656) {I HEARD} fwnhn <5456> {A VOICE} en <1722> {IN [THE]} mesw <3319> {MIDST} twn <3588> {OF THE} tessarwn <5064> {FOUR} zwwn <2226> {LIVING CREATURES,} legousan <3004> (5723) {SAYING,} coinix <5518> {A CHOENIX} sitou <4621> {OF WHEAT} dhnariou <1220> {FOR A DENARIUS,} kai <2532> {AND} treiV <5140> {THREE} coinikeV <5518> {CHOENIXES} kriqhV <2915> {OF BARLEY} dhnariou <1220> {FOR A DENARIUS:} kai <2532> {AND} to <3588> {THE} elaion <1637> {OIL} kai <2532> {AND} ton <3588> {THE} oinon <3631> {WINE} mh <3361> adikhshV <91> (5661) {THOU MAYEST NOT INJURE.}

So the penny today is the DENARIUS of when the book was written. -It was the basic unit of monetary value then. While the VALUE today would be as our penny, it was the STANDARD as the Japanese Yen, or American dollar.

In other words, if we were looking at the denarius in current terms, it would be worth a penny, but ordering a burger from McDonalds would cost 200 pennies, not 2 dollars. Dollars would not be the standard "term". Pennies would be.

As such, we need to understand how much a denarius was back then in value to know what the verse is assigning these items as a value.

http://www.fact-index.com/d/de/denarius.html

The Roman currency system included the denarius, a small silver coin, as the most common coin in circulation.

It is difficult to give even comparative values for money from before the 20th century, due to vastly different economies. Classical historians regularly say that in the late Roman Republic and early Roman Empire the daily wage for a laborer was one denarius.

What does this mean?

(Keep in mind this was written roughly 2000 years ago.)

The Bible tells us that 1 measure of wheat will cost 1 penny: (1 denarius) which is EQUAL TO A DAY'S WAGE.

It says 3 measures of barley will cost the same.

In other words, These two main staples will cost a fortune.

-Yet wine and oil will stay cheap. How?

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/news-NG.asp?id=51953target=_blank

Food prices continue to rise on world grain shortage
07/05/2004 - Food makers and ingredients firm across the world are currently affected by the rising world price for basic food commodities. In each of the last four years world grain production has fallen short of consumption, forcing a drawdown of stocks for wheat, rice, corn and soybeans. Lester R. Brown at the US-based Earth Policy Institute predicts food prices will likely be higher in the second quarter as soybeans have recently hit 15-year highs and wheat and corn 7-year highs.

When this year's grain harvest begins in May, world grain stocks will be down to 59 days of consumption—the lowest level in 30 years, writes Lester R. Brown in the following article.

The last time stocks were this low, in 1972-74, wheat and rice prices doubled. Now, a generation later, a similar scenario is unfolding. After nearly tripling from 1950 to 1996, growth in the world grain harvest came to a halt. In each of the last four years world grain production has fallen short of consumption, forcing a drawdown of stocks.

During this period, expanding deserts, falling water tables, crop-withering temperatures, and other environmental trends have largely offset the positive contributions of advancing technology and additional investment in agriculture.

Prices of basic food and feed commodities are climbing. Wheat futures for May 2004 that traded as low as $2.90 a bushel within the last year on the Chicago Board of Trade have recently topped $4 a bushel, a climb of 38 per cent. A similar calculation shows the price of corn up by 36 per cent, rice up 39 per cent, and soybeans doubling from just over $5 per bushel to over $10 a bushel.

Read the article.

It gets worse.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3841477.stm

Last Updated: Tuesday, 29 June, 2004, 18:07 GMT 19:07 UK
Rice yields dip as planet warms

Global warming could have a severe effect on rice production, say scientists working in the Philippines.
The researchers studied 12 years of rice yields and 25 years of temperature data, to work out how they are linked.

Yields dropped by 10% for each degree of warming, an alarming trend since rice is the staple diet for most of the world's expanding population, they say.

The study, by an international team, appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal.

Increasing demand

World rice production must increase by about 1% every year, to meet the demand of our planet's bulging population.

Many experts believe the only way to achieve this output is to improve the productivity of existing cropland. The alternative - planting more crops - would involve a costly encroachment into natural ecosystems.

But can rice crops rise to this challenge? If the new research is correct, maybe not.

A team of researchers went to the International Rice Research Institute in the Philippines, to monitor the performance of rice crops planted next to a weather station.

Because the rice and the weather station were such close neighbours, it was possible for the researchers to relate varying performance with varying temperature.

They found that average daytime temperatures, which increased by 0.35C since 1979, had little effect on productivity.

However, there was a strong link between increasing night temperatures - which rose by an impressive 1.1C over 25 years - and decreasing rice yields, they discovered.

Hot nights

The authors believe this is because, during hot nights, rice puts more energy into respiring and less into growing.

"Increases in temperature, with all else being equal, can add to maintenance and respiration costs," explained co-author Kenneth Cassman, of the University of Nebraska, US.

But why do night-time temperatures have such a big impact?

"There could be two things at work here," explained Professor Cassman. "It could be that the increase in temperature was too small during the day for one to see a difference in yield.

"Or it could be that temperature tends to increase on sunny days, and that leads to higher rates of photosynthesis [which accelerate growth]. So there is a confounding factor."

Jaded view

The team fear that global warming will make it increasingly difficult to feed the Earth's growing population.

Computer models of climate change suggest that night-time temperatures will continue to rise faster than in the day - by several degrees C in the coming decades.

This is bad news for rice because it often grows in the tropics - very near the top end of its temperature range. So a slight increase in temperature can bear a heavy cost.

"Our data suggests that where rice is grown near the upper end of its temperature range, a small increase in temperature can make it exceed that range - and yields suffer," said Professor Cassman.

A bushel of wheat for a day's wage. -And we see it coming.

What about wine?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1249630,00.html

Sales cut as Bordeaux goes into red

Jon Henley in Paris
Tuesday June 29, 2004
The Guardian

Faced with what some are calling its greatest crisis for 150 years, France's most prestigious winegrowing region has decided to cut back the amount of wine it sells.
The Bordeaux Wine Council (CIVB), which includes legendary names such as Chateau Latour, Chateau Margaux and Chateau Haut Brion and countless smaller producers, independent wine merchants, trade unions and cooperatives, said yesterday that its members had agreed to limit sales from this season's harvest to 50 hectolitres (5,000 litres) per hectare.

Anything more would be stored until the CIVB decided that conditions had improved.

It is an unprecedented decision which will reduce the volume of 2004 vintage Bordeaux sold by 15% to 35% compared with last year.

A spokeswoman said the decision made by an emergency council meeting on Thursday had been "very difficult, but had to be taken". She added: "We are simply producing far more than we can sell. Prices have collapsed dramatically; we have to reduce supply in the hope they'll pick up again."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....HUCRBAE0CFEY?type=reutersEdge&storyID=5599205

Golan Heights Isn't Bordeaux But .....
Tue Jul 6, 2004 12:48 PM ET

By Gwen Ackerman
MOSHAV ADERET, Israel (Reuters) - An ancient wine press sits on a hill overlooking vineyards planted just six years ago, testimony to the deep-seated biblical heritage of Israeli wine.

But that wine, generally sweet, never really went down well on the international market -- until recently when increasingly affluent Israelis spending more time abroad, returned home with a thirst for a more sophisticated product.

The Israeli wine revolution began in occupied territory.................................................

Even countries without a large Jewish population are potential customers.

"In Japan there is an interest in kosher products, also in our wine...because for the Japanese, kosher signifies sterility," Valero said.

Currently there is a glut of more than 120 Israeli wineries, many of them small and most catering to a limited local market where the average person consumes six litres (1.4 gallons) of wine a year. Even that is changing.

"Israelis have been ending the phase of the art of survival and moving into the art of living," said Ben Zaken.

Israeli wine has come a long way from the day Moses sent 12 spies to explore the Promised Land and they returned bearing a cluster of grapes that, according to tradition, yielded enough wine for 40 years.

"We hope one day to convince the world that although we are a small country, we are good wine producers and can provide quality wines at reasonable and interesting prices," Ben Zaken said.

Even Australia is getting in on it.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10087129%5E1702,00.html

Sunburnt country awash with wine
July 9, 2004

FORGET Australia being a land of wheat and sheep - a new atlas shows the country is awash with grapes and winemakers.

Released today, the social atlas of Australian wineries shows the number of wineries grew 150 per cent between 1991 and 2002.

In some parts of the country it was a matter of getting out of the way as would-be vignerons planted shiraz, chardonnay and a host of other grapes, according to A Social Atlas of Australia's Wine Regions, 2001-2002.

In South Australia's Langhorne Creek there was just one winery in 1991. By 2002, there were 10.

Across the Nullarbor at Margaret River, the number of wineries climbed 200 per cent to 72. In the Hunter Valley, winery numbers were up 186 per cent to 149.

The Port Phillip region, which includes Coldstream and the Yarra Valley, numbered 187 in 2002 - an increase of 163 per cent.

Although South Australia is still the industry powerhouse, the most wineries are actually found in Victoria, spread across Port Phillip, the state's north-east and central regions.

Winemakers Federation of Australia chief executive Stephen Strachan said the atlas gave a clear picture of the huge growth in the industry during the past decade.............An extra 20,000 people found work in the winery sector during the past decade, as winegrape production climbed to 1.5 million tonnes from 560,000 tonnes.

So.

We have an excess of wine and a shortage of main staple wheat and barley.

The wine will cost almost nothing while a bushel of wheat and 3 of barley will each cost a day's wage.

We have a predictable problem with obvious ramifications.

We have a Biblical text which claims this will happen in the end times.

We have now an issue:

2000 years ago, could anyone have seen this coming?

God did.

-And it unfolds before your very eyes RIGHT NOW.

 

[Captain_Steel]

I'm not trying to encroach on your beliefs, I'm just throwing this out for arguments sake, ok?

When you say that god forsaw this. In what way? And if he forsaw this, then why didn't he stop it? Why doesn't he help us now?

Don't get me wrong, Newguy, I believe in God myself. But not the biblical religious one who is supposed to have physical influence in our world. To me God is just a spirit. The great spirit. The collective consciousness, and unseen natural energy of the universe. I know it may seem semantic, but when you say that God forsaw our problems, IMHO your taking the idea of God too literally. Because, again, if God had the ability to predict these kinds of things, why wouldn't he stop them, or even allow them to happen in the first place?

 

[dilloduck]

Keep your day job, NG !

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Keep your day job, NG !

ditto, you should work Saturdays like me

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Interesting, NG. Also think about what the low carb diet revolution is doing to the bread market. The bakers will have to do something to strike back, something awful.

 

[5stringJeff]

Interesting NG. I'll have to look a little deeper into it later (I'm about to have a BBQ).

 

[Shazbot]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel
I'm not trying to encroach on your beliefs, I'm just throwing this out for arguments sake, ok?

When you say that god forsaw this. In what way? And if he forsaw this, then why didn't he stop it? Why doesn't he help us now?

Don't get me wrong, Newguy, I believe in God myself. But not the biblical religious one who is supposed to have physical influence in our world. To me God is just a spirit. The great spirit. The collective consciousness, and unseen natural energy of the universe. I know it may seem semantic, but when you say that God forsaw our problems, IMHO your taking the idea of God too literally. Because, again, if God had the ability to predict these kinds of things, why wouldn't he stop them, or even allow them to happen in the first place?

The idea is to understand that God's ways are above our ways. Just because He knows there will be a famine, doesn't mean He is evil for not stopping it. Everything has and will have its purpose, although in most cases, those purposes are unseen to us. I am reminded of the movie Apollo 13, with Tom Hanks (sorry, I don't know the actual history, so i go off the movie ). Tom Hanks' character explains how he was a pilot, and was lost at night flying out over the ocean. There was some problem in his plane that caused his lights and instruments to go out. From his point of view, that was just the icing on the cake. First, your lost, now everything is breaking! Then, he went on to explain that he eventually found his way back to land by following the glow of fluorescent algae floating in the ocean. He said that if his cabin lights had not gone out, he would have never noticed the algae and died at sea.

Perhaps, God has a greater plan in all this. Perhaps he wants to teach us something about humility that we would otherwise not learn without a catastrophic event. You just need to remember that death is not particularly a bad thing. A core belief in Christianity (and much of religion in general) is that death is not the end. Everyone has to die, and when it's our time, it's our time. The key is to have faith all the way to the end, and not to curse God when the bad stuff happens.

-Douglas

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Shazbot
From his point of view, that was just the icing on the cake. First, your lost, now everything is breaking! Then, he went on to explain that he eventually found his way back to land by following the glow of fluorescent algae floating in the ocean. He said that if his cabin lights had not gone out, he would have never noticed the algae and died at sea.

Perhaps, God has a greater plan in all this. Perhaps he wants to teach us something about humility that we would otherwise not learn without a catastrophic event. You just need to remember that death is not particularly a bad thing. A core belief in Christianity (and much of religion in general) is that death is not the end. Everyone has to die, and when it's our time, it's our time. The key is to have faith all the way to the end, and not to curse God when the bad stuff happens.

-Douglas

Good analogy, and well put.

 

[Bullypulpit]

NG...You've forgotten your medication again, haven't you?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Shazbot
The idea is to understand that God's ways are above our ways. Just because He knows there will be a famine, doesn't mean He is evil for not stopping it. Everything has and will have its purpose, although in most cases, those purposes are unseen to us. I am reminded of the movie Apollo 13, with Tom Hanks (sorry, I don't know the actual history, so i go off the movie ). Tom Hanks' character explains how he was a pilot, and was lost at night flying out over the ocean. There was some problem in his plane that caused his lights and instruments to go out. From his point of view, that was just the icing on the cake. First, your lost, now everything is breaking! Then, he went on to explain that he eventually found his way back to land by following the glow of fluorescent algae floating in the ocean. He said that if his cabin lights had not gone out, he would have never noticed the algae and died at sea.

Perhaps, God has a greater plan in all this. Perhaps he wants to teach us something about humility that we would otherwise not learn without a catastrophic event. You just need to remember that death is not particularly a bad thing. A core belief in Christianity (and much of religion in general) is that death is not the end. Everyone has to die, and when it's our time, it's our time. The key is to have faith all the way to the end, and not to curse God when the bad stuff happens.

-Douglas

I agree with NYC. Nicely put.

 

[NewGuy]

NG...You've forgotten your medication again, haven't you?

Hey Bully, I would like to see you refute this with logic if you can.

 

[adamsimpire]

God definatly has a plan, and he has forseen it, and so did Paul (that's how we know about this stuff). But the important thing to remember is, every generation has had things happen in their time that would signal the beggining of the end. Look at Napolean's time. And WWII with Hitler. Many thought he was the anti-Christ, and indeed he would seem to be, all except that he didn't strive for peace.

Anyway, New Guy brings up a lot of good points about OUR generation possibly facing the end of times. Probably the biggest is Isreal becoming a nation again, and I think that that, was the missing piece from previous generations.

And we cannot forget what Jesus said. I don't have my Bible with me at the moment, but rememer the parable of the fig tree. I'll see if I can get it on here later for those of you who don't know.

I'll be checking this topic soon again.

 

[mattskramer]

People and organizations (churches) have been trying to predict the "end-times" for decades. There was even an official denomination that declared that the end would come on a specific year. (I forgot the name of the denomination and the year that was declared.) People sold what they had and prepared for the end. The end did not arrive. People try to pull information about the future by dealing cards, by moving a triangular piece of plastic on a decorative rectangular board, and some people try to gather clues from old books. It is all the same. No one and nothing can predict the future and certainly no one can predict the "end-times" if there is such a thing.

 

[dilloduck]

People and organizations (churches) have been trying to predict the "end-times" for decades. There was even an official denomination that declared that the end would come on a specific year. (I forgot the name of the denomination and the year that was declared.) People sold what they had and prepared for the end. The end did not arrive. People try to pull information about the future by dealing cards, by moving a triangular piece of plastic on a decorative rectangular board, and some people try to gather clues from old books. It is all the same. No one and nothing can predict the future and certainly no one can predict the "end-times" if there is such a thing.

Hey--if it keeps em off the streets, more power too em.

 

[ajwps]

People and organizations (churches) have been trying to predict the "end-times" for decades. There was even an official denomination that declared that the end would come on a specific year. (I forgot the name of the denomination and the year that was declared.) People sold what they had and prepared for the end. The end did not arrive. People try to pull information about the future by dealing cards, by moving a triangular piece of plastic on a decorative rectangular board, and some people try to gather clues from old books. It is all the same. No one and nothing can predict the future and certainly no one can predict the "end-times" if there is such a thing.

Time past and time future
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.

ATTRIBUTION: T.S. (Thomas Stearns) Eliot (1888–1965)

 

[Hobbit]

People and organizations (churches) have been trying to predict the "end-times" for decades. There was even an official denomination that declared that the end would come on a specific year. (I forgot the name of the denomination and the year that was declared.) People sold what they had and prepared for the end. The end did not arrive. People try to pull information about the future by dealing cards, by moving a triangular piece of plastic on a decorative rectangular board, and some people try to gather clues from old books. It is all the same. No one and nothing can predict the future and certainly no one can predict the "end-times" if there is such a thing.

Even the Bible says "You know not the hour when the master comes." I believe it's near, but I'm not making predictions, since only God knows when the second coming will be.

 

[ajwps]

Even the Bible says "You know not the hour when the master comes." I believe it's near, but I'm not making predictions, since only God knows when the second coming will be.

Hobbit why don't you wait with me to the see the sequel, Christ the Second Coming, Part II?

If only G-d knows when Jesus is coming back for his second time, why did He leave Jesus out of the loop?

Didn't Jesus himself say that only G-d knew when Jesus would return in the second coming. Why was it a secret to him and the holy spirit as they were the other two-thids of the trinity?

 

[adamsimpire]

I think you're misunderstanding something here.

God= Jesus= Holy Spirit

 

[Shazbot]

Hobbit why don't you wait with me to the see the sequel, Christ the Second Coming, Part II?

If only G-d knows when Jesus is coming back for his second time, why did He leave Jesus out of the loop?

Didn't Jesus himself say that only G-d knew when Jesus would return in the second coming. Why was it a secret to him and the holy spirit as they were the other two-thids of the trinity?

I think you're misunderstanding something here.
God= Jesus= Holy Spirit

I don't believe in the equation Adamsimpire states here. In response to your statement, ajwps... Jesus never proclaimed himself equal to God the Father in neither power, glory, nor knowledge. The knowledge of the Second Coming was and always has been part of God the Father's design. Remember that - the Father's design, not the Son's. Perhaps Jesus was left "out of the loop" because it served no purpose for Him to know.

-Douglas

 

[ajwps]

I think you're misunderstanding something here.

God + Jesus + Holy Spirit= THREE GODS

Jesus admitted to his disciples that he (Jesus) was not aware of the end times or of his returning to fulfill the prophecies he failed to perform on his first visit.

Jesus said only the Father knew of this time and Jesus said that he didn't have the vaguest idea of the time.

Do you want me to show you the NT verses as said by Paul and his bible writers?