Pretti Shooting my opinion as a member of US Lawfare

[OODA_Loop]

He could have 20 guns but if his hands are empty you don’t shoot

Not while fighting them.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Best analysis of the video opposes use of deadly force by ICE

Seems like a pretty honest look.

Thank you for that.

WW

 

[Hafar1014]

Except he was fighting them. All bets are off then.

Actually he was face down turtled is the term. His cell phone in his right hand left hand palm down. He couldnt see because of the pepper spray. An agent held his left leg up pinning him down. He could have been restrained then arrested. He was in no way an imminent threat.

 

[westwall]

Actually he was face down turtled is the term. His cell phone in his right hand left hand palm down. He couldnt see because of the pepper spray. An agent held his left leg up pinning him down. He could have been restrained then arrested. He was in no way an imminent threat.

Yet he was resisting. There are plenty of video's out there showing a perp in that very position getting a gun from his belly area and shooting an officer trying to arrest him.

 

[rightwinger]

Not while fighting them.

OK
What if police spray your face with pepper spray and then force you to the ground and pull your hands behind your back to cuff you.
Are you going to fight to rub your eyes?

 

[Seymour Flops]

#1 That person want in a “head lock “ that was one of the women he was one of the v women he was helping get away from ICE.

Which is why I said a headlock or some kind of awkward hug or whatever.

Can you ever be honest in a debate?

Actually, I remember you once being one of the more honest posters on the left. But this ICE thing has caused Democrats to lose their last vestige or rationality.

#2 That is not an image of him reaching in a “pocket” it’s him being manhandled by ICE. Before that image he has his cell phone in that hand and after that image he still has his cell phone in his hand. No one is going to try to reach into a pocket with something in their hand (i.e. cell phone) to grab something else in their pocket (i.e. take a grab at a firearm) and then try to hold two things at once with the same hand. Try holding a pistol of that size AND a normal sized smartphone (seen in other videos) in one hand - ain’t happening with any degree of control for either item. He would have had to drop the cell phone, but he never did, before attempting to pick a gun it off Jo’s pocket.

He was probably trying to put his phone into his pocket, rather than taking something out of it. Your analysis of whether he could have been reaching for a firearm makes sense in hindsight. But the officers see an armed rioter reach into his pocket, they don't have time to analyze the reasons he might be doing it besides trying to harm them, when he is in a rage with all his other actions being aimed at harming them.

Context of the motion in the videos matter and he never reached into a pocket.

WW

Agree to disagree.

I guess you will not address the other post I asked you to look at. I suppose that is better than looking at it and lying to our faces.

True or false: If he had complied with their commands, stopped assaulting them, and allowed them to check him for weapons, he would have been bailed out relatively quickly (if he was even arrested) and would be telling kewl stories to the other Karens Instead of taking a dirt nap. Are you at least honest enough to admit that?

 

[Seymour Flops]

OK
What if police spray your face with pepper spray and then force you to the ground and pull your hands behind your back to cuff you.
Are you going to fight to rub your eyes?

It it would get me harmed further, like another shot of spray, you mean?

 

[OODA_Loop]

OK
What if police spray your face with pepper spray and then force you to the ground and pull your hands behind your back to cuff you.
Are you going to fight to rub your eyes?

So all he wanted was to rub his eyes?

And they killed him?

 

[rightwinger]

It it would get me harmed further, like another shot of spray, you mean?

YES
WIth your eyes on fire you will fight to relieve the pain.
Thinking…maybe I should just let them burn does not come into play

 

[rightwinger]

So all he wanted was to rub his eyes?

And they killed him?

They killed him because their response to Gun, Gun, Gun
Was. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot

 

[SweetTea]

Because he had no gun in his hand

If a guy is sitting in his car and an officer ask him to keep his hands where he can see them. The guy proceeds to open his glovebox, where there is a visible gun, and reaches for it. Does the officer have to wait for the guy to pick up the gun and point it at him before he can shoot?

I am not condoning nor condemning the actions of the agents. Just trying to figure it out.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Which is why I said a headlock or some kind of awkward hug or whatever.

Can you ever be honest in a debate?

Actually, I remember you once being one of the more honest posters on the left. But this ICE thing has caused Democrats to lose their last vestige or rationality.

See, that's dishonest post right there. I'm not a member of the left. I'm an old school republican this is disgusted with what Trump has done to my party.

He was probably trying to put his phone into his pocket, rather than taking something out of it. Your analysis of whether he could have been reaching for a firearm makes sense in hindsight. But the officers see an armed rioter reach into his pocket, they don't have time to analyze the reasons he might be doing it besides trying to harm them, when he is in a rage with all his other actions being aimed at harming them.

Agree to disagree.

I guess you will not address the other post I asked you to look at. I suppose that is better than looking at it and lying to our faces.

True or false: If he had complied with their commands, stopped assaulting them, and allowed them to check him for weapons, he would have been bailed out relatively quickly (if he was even arrested) and would be telling kewl stories to the other Karens Instead of taking a dirt nap. Are you at least honest enough to admit that?

Oh so now it's morphed from reaching into a pocket. A guy that had just been OC sprayed (multiple times) and was on the ground in a 4-5 officer scrum face down on his knees and/or belly (at different times) and was being beaten in the head by an officer with the officers OC spray can worried about trying to put his cell phone INTO his pocket.

That's not very honest.
And yes, I looked at your post and didn't find it useful.

But you want useful? Here are two 2nd Amendment and self defense proponents analyizing the shoot.

WW
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[westwall]

OK
What if police spray your face with pepper spray and then force you to the ground and pull your hands behind your back to cuff you.
Are you going to fight to rub your eyes?

Maybe he shouldn't have been fighting them in the first place.

 

[westwall]

They killed him because their response to Gun, Gun, Gun
Was. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot

As it should be.

 

[SweetTea]

He could have 20 guns but if his hands are empty you don’t shoot

This is patently false. An officer can shoot if a person is reaching for a gun. They don’t have to wait for the person to have it in their hand. That could be too late.

 

[OODA_Loop]

They killed him because their response to Gun, Gun, Gun
Was. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot

That is the most likely response during a scrum with an armed individual during a riot.

What should it be Gun Gun, Gun.......Dance, dance, dance?

 

[westwall]

See, that's dishonest post right there. I'm not a member of the left. I'm an old school republican this is disgusted with what Trump has done to my party.



Oh so now it's morphed from reaching into a pocket. A guy that had just been OC sprayed (multiple times) and was on the ground in a 4-5 officer scrum face down on his knees and/or belly (at different times) and was being beaten in the head by an officer with the officers OC spray can worried about trying to put his cell phone INTO his pocket.

That's not very honest.
And yes, I looked at your post and didn't find it useful.

But you want useful? Here are two 2nd Amendment and self defense proponents analyizing the shoot.

WW
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.
.
.

Bullshit. Trump did nothing to the GOP. The GOP has turned into a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNCCP.

Thus if you are "old school GOP", you are, in fact, a leftist.

 

[rightwinger]

That is the most likely response during a scrum with an armed individual during a riot.

What should it be Gun Gun, Gun.......Dance, dance, dance?

Doesn’t work like that
The first response to man with a gun is not kill him to be safe

Man on the ground, three officers holding him down
His hands are empty
Why are you shooting ?

 

[westwall]

Doesn’t work like that
The first response to man with a gun is not kill him to be safe

Man on the ground, three officers holding him down
His hands are empty
Why are you shooting ?

That's not what you claimed with Ashli, who was unarmed.

Can't have it both ways, boyo.

 

[SweetTea]

That is the most likely response during a scrum with an armed individual during a riot.

What should it be Gun Gun, Gun.......Dance, dance, dance?

It all comes down to the situation. If a person is resisting arrest and reaches for a gun, that is completely different than if a person is fully cooperative doing the same. If a “reasonable” officer believes a person is about to use a gun he is reaching for then all bets are off. Reaching for a gun or the perception of reaching for a gun during a struggle can be perceived as a “reasonable” threat.