Prediction: Obama will not run in Arizona over birth certificate

[bigrebnc1775]

So you can now retract you earlier implication that McCain was forced to supply a birth certificate as part of the process to be placed on a State ballot.


Good.


Glad we could clear that up.



>>>>

And **** you I am not retracting a motherfucking thing. Since McCain did not freely go to court he was forced so kiss my ass.

No not really sorry to disappoint you.

 

[rightwinger]

Assume for the moment that The Obama is found to NOT be a Naturally-Born Citizen.

Will the liberals press for His removal from office?

You mean like he is from another planet or something?

Hell Yes

 

[BlindBoo]

It has nothing to do with people who want answers, but with people who already have THE answer they want, and refuse to accept evidence to the contrary

Birthers are idiots. Obama is President and there is plenty to oppose him for, that's the least of my issues with him. Question though if you're consistent. Do you find it equally as idiotic the Democratic party and liberal media continuing to go after W when Rather's documents were proven to be forgeries or is it just different when it's a Democrat? They didn't even blink. Talk about having "THE answer they want." I'm consistent, are you?

The story of Bushes treatment while serving in the National Gaurd suddenly morphed into a Dan Rather/ Forged Documents story? Just becuase Dan was snookered by someone into using forged document doesn't mean President Bush didn't recieve special treatment by the Gaurd. Was the MSM just steering public opinion by dropping all stories related to his Gaurd Service? That was just one aspect of President Bushes National Gaurd Service that came into question. So, no it's not the same.

_______________________________

In her interview with Rather yesterday, Knox repeated her contention that the documents used by "60 Minutes" were bogus. Knox, 86, worked for Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian while he supervised Bush's unit in the early 1970s.

"I know that I didn't type them," Knox said of the Killian memos. "However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."

Rather Concedes Papers Are Suspect (washingtonpost.com)

 

[WorldWatcher]

They can set any standard they want to they did it with John McCain. He had to show his long form. What is your state of panic for?

No he did not supply it but it was a forced issue that had tobe handled in court, even if the judge ruled the plabit had not grounds.

So you can now retract you earlier implication that McCain was forced to supply a birth certificate as part of the process to be placed on a State ballot.


Good.


Glad we could clear that up.



>>>>

And **** you I am not retracting a motherfucking thing. Since McCain did not freely go to court he was forced so kiss my ass.

McCain, as you've agreed, didn't have to show his long form in court and you have provided no evidence that McCain was ever required to supply his long form birth certificate to any State in order to be placed on the ballot. Sorry if being proved wrong upsets you. Can I get you a drink or something to help you calm down?

Usually he who has to degenerate into the use of profanity has surrendered in the debate. Now normally I don't go down that road, but you've tweaked the funny bone in me today so I'll respond.

Sorry, I can't kiss your ass, your heads in the way.

>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Well, that's fine - but the fact that the possible AZ stattute is more limited in scope doesnt invalidate it.

Oh I agree, I was pointing out that the very narrow scope those was clearly indicative of the partisan politics that drove the law.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with a State requiring submission of supporting documents to prove eligibility to hold any elected office. I personally would not word the law to target one sitting President, I would prefer someting more general requiring ALL elected officials to prove eligibility. But that's just me.

Federal statute that defines NBC
United States Code: Browse Titles Page

Which definition does that define in terms of Presidential eligibility?

1. Born a citizen as some think?

2. A child born to two citizen parents?

3. A child born to two citizen parents, but only on US Soil?​

That section of the law defines citizenship, not the Constitutional principal of "Natural Born Citizen". If you check you will find that the neither the word "Natural" or "President" exists in your link.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

No, they can't but that really is not the point. they can require that the documents are furnished that prove his birth within that state though. As far as whether or not it MUST be a long form is another matter. I have not read the actual text of the law in question but it does require more than what the state of Hawaii furnishes as proof of citizenship then there will be a problem for Arizona. I do believe that if it is asking for documents that Hawaii DOES issue as proof of citizenship it will be another story. Does Hawaii not issue a long form birth certificate and are you able to obtain a long form from that state?

The State of Hawaii issues a COLB which lists the parents, the child, and the birth location. All that is needed to establish citizenship (and really all that is needed to establish Natural Born Citizenship). It does not include the Doctor, Hospital, or witnesses and it doesn't need to as none are a factor in determining citizenship at birth nor are they a factor needed to determine Natural Born Citizen no matter what definition you use.


>>>>

So, you are saying that they do not issue a long form birth certificate? If they do, I fail to see how AZ requiring the form is trampling Hawaii at all. If they do not or do not issue copies then I cannot see how AZ could legally require it. Even if the COLB is proof of citizenship in Hawaii that does not mean that another state could not require a specific document that is also used by Hawaii to establish proof of citizenship. As you said earlier, there are exceptions in the information that can be listed because people are not always born in a hospital but if a birth certificate is issued to all people in a given state as well as a COLB I cannot see the problem of requiring one document or the other. As I said, I have not read the actual text of the law though and if there is no provisions for cases where a birth certificate was never issued and yet the individual retains legal citizenship with other proof then the law has no future.

When you order a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii you receive a "short form" birth certificate commonly referred to as a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB). This is legal document is the official birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii for birth certificate purposes. This is the document you would present to any DMV in the United States for a Drivers license. This is the document you send to the Social Secuirty Administration. This is the document proving citizenship that is sent to the Department of State to issue a passport.


>>>>

 

[M14 Shooter]

Federal statute that defines NBC
United States Code: Browse Titles Page

Which definition does that define in terms of Presidential eligibility?

Any of those listed, as any of them qualify as a citizen at birth.

If you check you will find that the neither the word "Natural" or "President" exists in your link.

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
(see list)

Thus, the definition of natural born citizen according to Federal law.
Seems pretty clear to me.
:shrug:

 

[WorldWatcher]

Federal statute that defines NBC
United States Code: Browse Titles Page

Which definition does that define in terms of Presidential eligibility?

Any of those listed, as any of them qualify as a citizen at birth.

If you check you will find that the neither the word "Natural" or "President" exists in your link.

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
(see list)

Thus, the definition of natural born citizen according to Federal law.
Seems pretty clear to me.
:shrug:

Are you saying citizen = natural born citizen?


>>>>

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you saying citizen = natural born citizen?

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

 

[rightwinger]

Why would anyone assume Arizona would reject his documentation?

Nobody else has

 

[WorldWatcher]

Are you saying citizen = natural born citizen?

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

Oh, OK so you are in the camp of born a citizen = Natural Born Citizen. No problem thank you for the clarification.


However be aware you are at odds with much of the birth community. They insist that born a citizen (for citizenship purposes) is not the same as Natural Born Citizen. They require at a minimum that both parents be citizens as well. If you told them that an illegal alien drops a kid in New Hampshire, that child in their eyes would be a citizen at birth but not a Natural Born Citizen eligible for President.

That's why eventually the Congress or the SCOTUS will address citizenship and Natural Born Citizen in terms of Presidential eligibility.


>>>>

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are you saying citizen = natural born citizen?

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

Oh, OK so you are in the camp of born a citizen = Natural Born Citizen. No problem thank you for the clarification.

10-4.

However be aware you are at odds with much of the birth community.

Not all that concerned about that.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Part I--Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization
Sec. 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

Oh, OK so you are in the camp of born a citizen = Natural Born Citizen. No problem thank you for the clarification.

10-4.

However be aware you are at odds with much of the birth community.

Not all that concerned about that.

#1 "10-4" = Fair enough.

#2 "Concerned" -


>>>>

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why would anyone assume Arizona would reject his documentation?

Nobody else has

Name one state that question it the first time?

 

[Flopper]

The Hawaii Governor said he did not remember seeing Obama before he was 5 years old. Who remembers that much before they were 5 yeas old anyhow? The thing that should bother people the most is Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from age 6 to age 10, his most influential years. This would make a larger impact on a person than where they were born.

Oh please. I barely remember anything about my teachers until fourth grade, and then only vaguely. That young, kids are learning things by rote, not political messaging.

Bull Shit!! Obama should have an above average memory & I know many people that remember most things from 3 years on including my sister. I remember some from age 4 & most things from 5 years on.

At 5 years old after my sister got on the bus for school, I helped care for the pigs & chickens every morning along with other farm work then washing up & dressing for school before the little bus that took me to kindergarten arrived at 11:05. I remember right down to the teachers name Miss Ross, the words I learned to spell in kindergarten & all the other kids names in the class. Bobby was the best speller because it sure was not me. I learned to write my first name & loved to play fireman with the fire engine & played with the wooden building blocks & Lincoln logs. The teacher gave us milk & cookies most days but there were 3 kids (Donnie, Lisa & Jerry) that kept peeing their pants during class after drinking milk & it would run out of their chair so then we would take a nap while they got changed. Donnie & Lisa got held back that year. Donnie always got into trouble & Lisa cried a lot. After class I would ride home on the big bus with my sister & the big kids who taught me many bad things. On Wednesdays we would not take the bus home but would walk from school through the park where the older boys would climb in the rafters of the shelters to get the cigarettes, whiskey, pot & Play Boy magazines they had hidden & look at them because Crystal Smith from our local Kansas City, MO town was on the cover of the November Issue. Then from the park to church to attend CCD class where we learned about God, Jesus, Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses & the 10 commandments that Mrs Griffin wrote in chalk on 2 slate tablets. Mom or dad would pick us up afterwords & would sell eggs from our farm out of the trunk of our car to other parents while there. I also remember the men waiting to pick kids up standing in a group complaining about the UAW strike that was going on & how USA automobiles were going down hill. Their new car engines were smoking, burning oil & fenders were rusting out. They talked politics every Wednesday & Sunday. All the farmers were happy that crop prices were going up then Nixon ended the Gold Standard & wanted to withdraw troops from Vietnam. Then corn prices dropped & did not go up again until the next year. I got a KC Chiefs football, jersey & helmet for Christmas & then our team the Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl. Life was good then. On weekends we would ride horses, explore caves, swim & fish at the river, light bonfires to cook the fish we caught & sometimes camp there. I remember once we were picking mint leaves at the river before supper & I picked the wrong leaf & put it in my mouth & it burned & stung my tongue the rest of the night. There is a lot more from my memory at 5 years old that I don't have the time to go into but I defiantly do remember the politics, religion & culture from that time in my life.

Like Obama, I went to several schools in my early years. I also had more than one teacher in a year. The first teacher I can remember was in the 5th grade. She was such a knockout, she was unforgeable.

And one's memory of their elementary school teachers proves exactly ???

 

[WorldWatcher]

Why would anyone assume Arizona would reject his documentation?

Nobody else has

Name one state that question it the first time?

I can't think of any state that questioned the documentation they required from Obama (or McCain) in 2008. Were there any?


>>>>

 

[rightwinger]

Why would anyone assume Arizona would reject his documentation?

Nobody else has

Name one state that question it the first time?

He has used his birth certificate to get a drivers license, Passport, school admission and it has met all requirements.

Why would Arizona look at it any differently?

Only a birther would have a problem

 

[kaz]

It has nothing to do with people who want answers, but with people who already have THE answer they want, and refuse to accept evidence to the contrary

Birthers are idiots. Obama is President and there is plenty to oppose him for, that's the least of my issues with him. Question though if you're consistent. Do you find it equally as idiotic the Democratic party and liberal media continuing to go after W when Rather's documents were proven to be forgeries or is it just different when it's a Democrat? They didn't even blink. Talk about having "THE answer they want." I'm consistent, are you?

The story of Bushes treatment while serving in the National Gaurd suddenly morphed into a Dan Rather/ Forged Documents story? Just becuase Dan was snookered by someone into using forged document doesn't mean President Bush didn't recieve special treatment by the Gaurd. Was the MSM just steering public opinion by dropping all stories related to his Gaurd Service? That was just one aspect of President Bushes National Gaurd Service that came into question. So, no it's not the same.

_______________________________

In her interview with Rather yesterday, Knox repeated her contention that the documents used by "60 Minutes" were bogus. Knox, 86, worked for Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian while he supervised Bush's unit in the early 1970s.

"I know that I didn't type them," Knox said of the Killian memos. "However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."

Rather Concedes Papers Are Suspect (washingtonpost.com)

Thank you, my point. Bush was a horrible President, but the National Guard story was retarded and all you offer here is antidotal evidence for what was a non-story to begin with. Obama's a horrible President and there is zero birther story. The Bush guard story is just as idiotic. I see it because I care about substance. You don't because you care about electing Democrats. We just have different priorities. I oppose tax and spend, they both do it. I oppose the wars in the Middle East, they both do it. That is substance and they both fail. Stupid gotcha stories are still stupid gotcha stories even when they are about Presidents with real issues.

 

[Flopper]

The State of Hawaii issues a COLB which lists the parents, the child, and the birth location. All that is needed to establish citizenship (and really all that is needed to establish Natural Born Citizenship). It does not include the Doctor, Hospital, or witnesses and it doesn't need to as none are a factor in determining citizenship at birth nor are they a factor needed to determine Natural Born Citizen no matter what definition you use.


>>>>

So, you are saying that they do not issue a long form birth certificate? If they do, I fail to see how AZ requiring the form is trampling Hawaii at all. If they do not or do not issue copies then I cannot see how AZ could legally require it. Even if the COLB is proof of citizenship in Hawaii that does not mean that another state could not require a specific document that is also used by Hawaii to establish proof of citizenship. As you said earlier, there are exceptions in the information that can be listed because people are not always born in a hospital but if a birth certificate is issued to all people in a given state as well as a COLB I cannot see the problem of requiring one document or the other. As I said, I have not read the actual text of the law though and if there is no provisions for cases where a birth certificate was never issued and yet the individual retains legal citizenship with other proof then the law has no future.

When you order a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii you receive a "short form" birth certificate commonly referred to as a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB). This is legal document is the official birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii for birth certificate purposes. This is the document you would present to any DMV in the United States for a Drivers license. This is the document you send to the Social Secuirty Administration. This is the document proving citizenship that is sent to the Department of State to issue a passport.


>>>>

You can't win an argument with someone who supports a conspiracy theory because their arguments are based on theories. No matter what evidence you offer, they will counter with another theory, innuendo, or circumstantial evidence. This is why they never get anywhere in court.

Did you know that the Flat Earth Society is still alive and kicking. After over a hundred years, they are still coming up with evidence to support their flat earth theory. The Flat Earth Society
The American Lunar Society claims there was no maned landing on the moon. These are fun theories to read about and pretty harmless but political conspiracy theories such as the Obama birth certificate theory are quite different. They are basically mean-spirited designed to discredit a person or group without ever offering any hard evidence.

Conspiracy theories make good movies and books, which is where they belong.

 

[WorldWatcher]

So, you are saying that they do not issue a long form birth certificate? If they do, I fail to see how AZ requiring the form is trampling Hawaii at all. If they do not or do not issue copies then I cannot see how AZ could legally require it. Even if the COLB is proof of citizenship in Hawaii that does not mean that another state could not require a specific document that is also used by Hawaii to establish proof of citizenship. As you said earlier, there are exceptions in the information that can be listed because people are not always born in a hospital but if a birth certificate is issued to all people in a given state as well as a COLB I cannot see the problem of requiring one document or the other. As I said, I have not read the actual text of the law though and if there is no provisions for cases where a birth certificate was never issued and yet the individual retains legal citizenship with other proof then the law has no future.

When you order a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii you receive a "short form" birth certificate commonly referred to as a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB). This is legal document is the official birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii for birth certificate purposes. This is the document you would present to any DMV in the United States for a Drivers license. This is the document you send to the Social Secuirty Administration. This is the document proving citizenship that is sent to the Department of State to issue a passport.


>>>>

You can't win an argument with someone who supports a conspiracy theory because their arguments are based on theories. No matter what evidence you offer, they will counter with another theory, innuendo, or circumstantial evidence. This is why they never get anywhere in court.

Did you know that the Flat Earth Society is still alive and kicking. After over a hundred years, they are still coming up with evidence to support their flat earth theory. The Flat Earth Society
The American Lunar Society claims there was no maned landing on the moon. These are fun theories to read about and pretty harmless but political conspiracy theories such as the Obama birth certificate theory are quite different. They are basically mean-spirited designed to discredit a person or group without ever offering any hard evidence.

Conspiracy theories make good movies and books, which is where they belong.

I don't think FA_Q2 is a birther for a couple of reasons.


1. (S)he has been discussing the implications of the law.

2. I haven't seen any drool coming out my monitor from his/her responses.







>>>>