CDZ Posting Solutions for Gun Violence

[Daryl Hunt]

The obvious solution is simply to realize "gun violence" does not exist therefore trying to have a discussion about it makes about as much sense as trying to have a rational discussion about how to put shoes on a unicorn. Guns aren't violent; people often are. Always have been and always will be. Violence coupled with craftiness are the main reasons we are at the top of the food chain instead of being extinct. Many of us consider that a good thing.

There is no way to stop it. But we can lessen it. IF that is all we do then it's a start. Now, what can we do to lessen it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

/----/ All excellent points but the Gun Grabbers will ignore you and will keep banging the drum to repeal and confiscate.
View attachment 196163

True, they are more interested in creating paranoia and panic, thus votes, than to decrease the death toll. As has been demonstrated, confiscation, at best reduces the over all death count by only a few.

So I continue to ask, what is the problem we are looking to solve?

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

 

[2aguy]

True, they are more interested in creating paranoia and panic, thus votes, than to decrease the death toll. As has been demonstrated, confiscation, at best reduces the over all death count by only a few.

So I continue to ask, what is the problem we are looking to solve?

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

Again....the hand gun is the weapon of choice for mass shootings....you can keep saying the opposite, but it doesn't make you correct.....

Weapons used in mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2017 | Statistic

99 to 43 handguns to all rifle types......and if you throw in shotguns and revolvers, your post becomes even more inaccurate....

Semi auto hand guns, revolvers, shotguns... 151

All rifle types... 43

Please...stop....

 

[9thIDdoc]

The obvious solution is simply to realize "gun violence" does not exist therefore trying to have a discussion about it makes about as much sense as trying to have a rational discussion about how to put shoes on a unicorn. Guns aren't violent; people often are. Always have been and always will be. Violence coupled with craftiness are the main reasons we are at the top of the food chain instead of being extinct. Many of us consider that a good thing.

There is no way to stop it. But we can lessen it. IF that is all we do then it's a start. Now, what can we do to lessen it.

You cannot lessen something that does not exist. The very first step in addressing a problem is a realistic definition of what the problem is. Do you seek to lessen gun violence or violence in general? Is there any point in reducing "gun violence" if violence with other tools is simply increased to make up for it?
"Gun violence" is by no means always a bad thing. Our Nation was formed through the use of gun violence. Our police and military rely on the option, people may need it to protect their family and hunters to feed hungry people. People managed to be quite violent for thousands of years before the gun was invented and there is no good reason to believe that a reduction in their numbers, even if possible, would in any way effect overall levels of violence or that that would be a good thing.

 

[Pop23]

True, they are more interested in creating paranoia and panic, thus votes, than to decrease the death toll. As has been demonstrated, confiscation, at best reduces the over all death count by only a few.

So I continue to ask, what is the problem we are looking to solve?

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

If you have no cites, you have no proof. That leads to lack of credibility.

So then we will continue.

You seem to want to focus on one of the defined “gun death categories” that I posted earlier.

That one accounts for the fewest deaths each year.

Sure, the numbers are made up of mostly young, I’ll give you that.

But my #2 comprises far more in total numbers, and 100s more, likely 1000s more youth.

I would think the focus would be far more productive to solve #2 and not #5, would you not agree?

We are, after all, looking for solutions, right?

Why focus on the few and not on the many?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

Again....the hand gun is the weapon of choice for mass shootings....you can keep saying the opposite, but it doesn't make you correct.....

Weapons used in mass shootings in the U.S. 1982-2017 | Statistic

99 to 43 handguns to all rifle types......and if you throw in shotguns and revolvers, your post becomes even more inaccurate....

Semi auto hand guns, revolvers, shotguns... 151

All rifle types... 43

Please...stop....

You leave out the data that the highest body counts for mass shootings per shooting goes to the
AR-15. And that has become the weapon of choice in the last few years. Yes, you can go back and include 1992 through 1998 when the AR was regulated and was not to be had in such numbers. That messes up the totals. Or you can go from 1999 forward and get quite a cultural shock. Hand picking data is just plain lying.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

If you have no cites, you have no proof. That leads to lack of credibility.

So then we will continue.

You seem to want to focus on one of the defined “gun death categories” that I posted earlier.

That one accounts for the fewest deaths each year.

Sure, the numbers are made up of mostly young, I’ll give you that.

But my #2 comprises far more in total numbers, and 100s more, likely 1000s more youth.

I would think the focus would be far more productive to solve #2 and not #5, would you not agree?

We are, after all, looking for solutions, right?

Why focus on the few and not on the many?

I guess if I need a rural mass shooting I need to call Farmers only mass murderer dot com then and gather all the people for 20 miles around into one spot. You make absolutely no sense.

 

[candycorn]

Anyone using a gun to commit a crime gets shot in the head.

I think you would find gun crime would go way down.

Easy Peasy

Without the "shot in the head" part, I think gun crimes (whether you fire it or not) should carry mandatory minimums of at least 10 years in prison...no parole.

Good post.

 

[Pop23]

So, now can we talk about the real problem that kills far more young people than school shootings ever will

Our society allowing these kids to be recruited into life’s that will result in broken futures and death?

That is the single greatest gun related problem that faces this nation.

It’s not guns though, it’s gangs.

 

[Pop23]

AR style rifles are used very rarely.

What do we solve with this?

If we can’t even define a public safety issue, one that requires new law, then what do we gain?

An AR can be used in criminal activity, sure, but as we saw in the Indiana shooting and in Texas, they can be simply substituted

It's the weapon of choice for Mass Shootings. Much like the Thompson was in it's day. It matters little that it's a semi auto or not. It's the cheapest, best and fastest in operation semi auto that has ever been made. When you compare it to the Mini-14, the Mini-14 is heavy, sluggish and hard to handle when you have to reload. You can go through 3 mags on the AR in the time it takes you to empty the Mini-14, change mags, hit the recharging lever and go. The Record goes to the AR hands down in body counts. It doesn't take 3 shooters for a high body count. It only takes one. A M-16-A-4 wouldn't do any better for exactly the same reasons. As long as it's the weapon of choice, it can be deemed a Public Safety Issue and can be Regulated. The only question is how to regulate it. I like my idea of making it FFL. That falls well within the 2nd amendment guidelines.

I don’t think you can define it as the weapon of choice. You have a link. Seems to me that more mass shootings are not with, not with ARs.

Even if so, what evidence do you have that a different weapon would not be used.

Again, if you only accomplish the murderer changing weapon, what are you accomplishing?

Would you not be better served in saving the children in gangs? They die at far greater numbers

We have one here. And you don't get Redder than here. It was stopped before it to to the School gate. When our communities see someone on a clear hot day walking wearing a raincoat or a duster with a bulge under it there is reason enough to call the authorities. The waiting until the shooting starts to react is NOT the way to handle it. It didn't even make a splash in the news. The kid was under age so no names. The weapon belonged to his father (an AR-15) as did the mags. Plus we have had our fair share of kids with the stupid bringing handguns into the schools without any thoughts of shooting the place up who were expelled. But the real scare is the kid with the AR-15. The Community handled it right. Not like many other communities with the school shootings.

We save what we can save. We stop what we can stop. If we turn a blind eye and say, Hey, What About Them over There then we failed our community. While I care about your community, I care a lot more about my community. And we had a very close call with a kid going for the record with an AR-15. And it you think it can't happen where you live, don't bet your kid's life on it like you seem to want to bet other people's kids lives on it.

I don't need cites to show that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice. Even you can't be that stupid to claim it isn't. It's the current record holder that all others will strive to beat. And the only way to beat that record is to use the tool that can do the job.

We should be doing better than the run of the mill Middle Eastern Country where crap like this is common place. You seem to wish to accept it. I don't. I refuse to accept it. Why do you.

If you have no cites, you have no proof. That leads to lack of credibility.

So then we will continue.

You seem to want to focus on one of the defined “gun death categories” that I posted earlier.

That one accounts for the fewest deaths each year.

Sure, the numbers are made up of mostly young, I’ll give you that.

But my #2 comprises far more in total numbers, and 100s more, likely 1000s more youth.

I would think the focus would be far more productive to solve #2 and not #5, would you not agree?

We are, after all, looking for solutions, right?

Why focus on the few and not on the many?

I guess if I need a rural mass shooting I need to call Farmers only mass murderer dot com then and gather all the people for 20 miles around into one spot. You make absolutely no sense.

Huh, saving more life is less sensible than saving fewer?

I thought you were serious about this.

 

[candycorn]

You have the right to own a grenade launcher. You have the right to own a LAW. You have the right to own a Mah Duce. But you have to follow the safety and storage as outlined in the FFL licensing and pay your 200 bucks for a 5 year license. It doesnt' take away your right to own it, it just regulates how you store it, transport it to keep the Public Safety. Shoot, you can even own a F-16. There are a number of those in private hands. And I am sure that the Russians would fall all over themselves to sell you tons of Mig-29s.
A Florida Company Is Selling Soviet MiG Fighter Jets in Prime Condition
You could have your very own private Air Force if you had the cash. Each copy of the Mig-29 is a steal at 4.65 mil a copy. Just beware, over the Landmass of the US, you can't fly supersonic (another public safety rule). If you want live guns on it, break out the FFL license. Yuppers, you may need that for home defense. Imagine the home intruder when you buzz his butt with that and do a strafing run with the 23 mm canons.

But the people in the commie states don't have the ability to own firearms like the AR-15 or standard issue capacity magazines or many of the "arms" that it says in the Constitution that shall not be infringed.

That is what happens when you allow the filthy government to be the one to give permission on our Constitutional rights.

Stupid Liberals will use the permissions, licensing etc to unreasonably ban firearms that should not reasonably be banned.

The crime should never be the possession of an arm. Only the crime done by the arm.

Liberals hate that because their agenda is not public safety but to do away with the ability of the American people to resist their agenda to make the US a socialist shithole..

First of all, your hate and bias is definately getting in the way of any meaningful discussion.

And now for the definition in legal terms of "Infringe".

to do something that does not obey or follow (a rule, law, etc.) ( chiefly US )

That means that if the Law says something, not doing it is infringing on the law. It doesn't mean that the one word stands by itself. Nor does it mean that it only means the laws as interpreted by you. It means all the laws. This includes the laws that you don't like. You seem to be infringing on the laws of others on a regular basis.

One step......have a gun ban for democrats....as research shows, they shoot more people than republicans do....



Analysis | The surprising way gun violence is dividing America

In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

------

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas.

These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.

That is logical because most of the gun crime in this country takes place in the large big cites that traditionally votes Democrat.

So much for no bigoted discussion. Guess this discussion has ended up in the loo.

I sometimes wish there was a forum on this message board that had intensive moderation and kicked out those who didn't adhere to the rules in the OP... Let the fur fly everywhere else.

It was a good convo for a while. Thanks for originating it.

In the business world, what we do is benchmark. You look at what successful companies do and copy their P&Ps where applicable. It seems like it would make sense to do that as a society.

 

[abrere]

the AR could easily be beaten out by the Ruger 1022, with the 50 and 100 rd drums. The dummies dont know any better, so they pick the AR. The .22lr is quite lethal and it's far easier to be skilled with and to have 100's of rds on tap, while being well concealed under a jacket. All it takes is a hacksaw, file, magic marker, countersink and drill to shorten the barrel. Fit a folding stock, mount a cheap optical sight and there you go.

It's also easy to get subsonic ammo for the .22lr auto, and to make a silencer for. same. 7" of barrel and 6" of silencer, with a folding buttstock, makes for a very handy size. You can grind or rasp the forend and stock down to being half as thick, for better concealment under a jacket. Pipe bombs are many times more effective than any rifle when it comes to mass casualties. They are easily made and used. All it takes is a fire cracker inside of a bit of black powder, inside of a main charge of smokeless powder or potassium nitrate, in PVC pipe, dippped in glue, rolled in bb's, wrapped in tape, repeat. easily stash 6 of them in your belt, one on each ankle, one in each armpit.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I am looking for solutions to gun violence. All sides. All sides need to be heard equally. Insulting a person is NOT a solution but part of the problem. IF you are going to post angry, do it somewhere else. If you are going to just troll, do it somewhere else. Post solutions as you see it and then let's discuss it.

Care to take that challenge?

You can't find a solution until first you define a problem to solve.

Saying you are seeking a solution to "Gun Violence" implies that all death from firearms are the same, and it really is not that simple.

It is over simplification to throw all deaths, when a gun is used into a single box, which is what I believe you want because it creates panic and paranoia. But putting that aside, lets look at the main categories of death via firearm to see what can be, or can't be accomplished in each.

1. SUICIDE: 2/3rds of all death by firearms are by suicide. A gun is not a requirement for those seeking to kill themselves. Other methods are available that many times even kill other innocents when implemented. Even Countries like Japan, South Korea and France, with strict gun control laws have suicide rates nearly as high or higher than the United States. Suicide is indeed illegal here, but a legal deterrent is not a remedy to someone who wants to kill themselves.

So how do you stop suicide?

2. GANG RELATED KILLING: The second leading cause of death that involves a firearm is gang related killings. These account for 80% of the remaining deaths. I fail to see how we can deter these by passage of a law, when the legal deterrent against murder is already life in prison to the use of the Death Penalty. Gun locks and secure safes? I don't think a gang member really cares if the law mandates these as they break laws as a way of life. Better training? Do we really want Gang members better trained?

3. DOMESTIC MURDER OR SELF DEFENSE DURING DOMESTIC ALTERCATION: These account for a relatively small number as compared to the first two categories. Again, the criminal penalty for murder is life in prison or the application of the death penalty. What possible additional legal deterrent are we to place on the abuser that is greater than these?

And in many of these killings the gun is not required to kill the weaker victim. These killings happen even in heavily gun controlled areas in the world by the use of other tools such as knife, blunt objects, poison and dozens and dozens of other method.

In this category is also those that killed in self defense, or the defense of another household member. The use of the gun by the victim of the abuse in many cases are completely justifiable, and not having the firearm would have increased the chances of the victims death.

4. THE USE OF A FIREARM BY LAW ENFORCEMENT: Typically done in defense of self or others.

5. ACCIDENTAL DEATH: Extremely rare, it averages roughly 1.5 times per day in a country of 327,000,000 people.

6. MASS SHOOTINGS: Of all the categories, this one involves the fewest deaths per year, but is the most sensational.

If I failed to include a category go ahead and make me aware of it, but I fail to see how these 6 categories can be lumped into a single box if we really want to problem solve.

/----/ All excellent points but the Gun Grabbers will ignore you and will keep banging the drum to repeal and confiscate.
View attachment 196163

True, they are more interested in creating paranoia and panic, thus votes, than to decrease the death toll. As has been demonstrated, confiscation, at best reduces the over all death count by only a few.

So I continue to ask, what is the problem we are looking to solve?

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

An idea worthy of exploring.

But rather than just ARs, instead afford citizens an FFL for any firearm, much like the FFL 03, except not limited to firearms over 50 years old or guns designated as C and R.

Advantages:

No more 4473s to fill out, no waiting periods, no background checks – go to your LGS, buy your gun, take it home.

And with an FFL, a citizen can buy a gun online and have it delivered to his home, no need to ship it to an FFL 01 for a transfer (and the transfer fee).

Last, the FFL would also serve as a concealed carry license valid in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, superseding all state and local concealed carry laws.

The background check would be conducted as part of the application process, the license would be valid for three years, with a $30 renewal fee.

Disadvantages:

No FFL, no guns – even if one is not otherwise a prohibited person

License holders must maintain a bound book and record all firearm transactions.

License holders must keep meticulous, comprehensive records.

Bound books and a transaction records would be subject to ATF review.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Much better background check system that actually includes all felons and dv convictions and any ERPO removal of guns. This needs to be kept accurate and current and it needs to apply to every purchase of a gun and any transfers that are not between immediate family members.

IF a legal gun owner loses or has a gun stolen, the owner MUST report it to police. Otherwise, if the gun is used in a crime, that owner shares legal responsibility for the crime.

Ban AR-15's and similar assault rifles.

I can do more damage with a pump action shotgun than a AR-15, so banning the AR-15 is pointless.

The solution is very simple but those like you and the OP will refuse to accept it and that is there is no real solution including banning all firearms...

Humans kill and the more humans, well more deaths...

If Cain and Able could not get along, well how will gun control work?

Criminals can straw purchase or black market buy a gun, so background checks are limited to the legal gun buyer.

Guns can be made with 3D printers today, so how do you stop those guns?

As many on the left claim they want solutions, well your answers fail to address reality, yes humans kill...

Remove the firearm and another McVeigh will rise...

Also my solution is simple, yep nothing can be done!

 

[Pellinore]

Okay, my answer to the OP, compiled at 1 am from the chicken-scratch I've been scribbling on this Post-It all day.

Executive: We need to do better enforcing the laws we have. We need to revamp the reporting system of who is ineligible and make sure it is used correctly every time, allow emergency removal of firearms with a judge's approval, penalties for attempting to buy a firearm when you are ineligible, impressively long jail sentences for domestic abusers and those using a firearm in a crime, hold owners responsible for crimes committed with their weapons, and have plenty of armed and capable SRO officers in all middle and high schools. Task the CDC with producing the quantitative study on gun violence; pay for it with a GoFundMe if need be, I bet it will fill in hours.

Legislative: Universal background checks even for private sales, and move bump stocks and large-capacity magazines behind the Class III barrier. I vacillate on a 21 year old age limit; I'm not sure about that. Mandate locks and safes for all households with both minors and firearms.

Social: Build a coalition of news outlets, media corporations, and other reporting agencies from across the spectrum to make non-reporting of a shooter's name the standard. Encourage people to watch for signs of failing mental health in their friends and family and drastically increase the number of free mental health resources available to the public.

Mental Health: Have national mandatory mental health education in every level of school, equal to physical health training, to destigmatize mental health. Provide incentives to insurance companies to provide free annual mental health checkups for all adults, equal to physical health checkups, just free.

The main thing I can't work out is how to have people show that they are of sound mind as they buy a gun. A system that requires a potential buyer to prove it is putting a condition (and presumably a dollar amount) on a Constitutionally guaranteed right, but having all psychiatrists report their dangerous patients to the Can't Buy list would be not only violating their right to due process, but exposing their medical history, which is a no-no. We need to have some level of mental safeguard, but I haven't worked out how that would work yet without any undue infringing going on.

List subject to change.

 

[Flash]

the AR could easily be beaten out by the Ruger 1022, with the 50 and 100 rd drums. The dummies dont know any better, so they pick the AR. The .22lr is quite lethal and it's far easier to be skilled with and to have 100's of rds on tap, while being well concealed under a jacket. All it takes is a hacksaw, file, magic marker, countersink and drill to shorten the barrel. Fit a folding stock, mount a cheap optical sight and there you go.

It's also easy to get subsonic ammo for the .22lr auto, and to make a silencer for. same. 7" of barrel and 6" of silencer, with a folding buttstock, makes for a very handy size. You can grind or rasp the forend and stock down to being half as thick, for better concealment under a jacket. Pipe bombs are many times more effective than any rifle when it comes to mass casualties. They are easily made and used. All it takes is a fire cracker inside of a bit of black powder, inside of a main charge of smokeless powder or potassium nitrate, in PVC pipe, dippped in glue, rolled in bb's, wrapped in tape, repeat. easily stash 6 of them in your belt, one on each ankle, one in each armpit.

You should have both ARs and 10-22s.

The 10-22 is a fun little pea shooter for squirrels, rabbits and target plinking but it is hardly a lethal main battle weapon.

A military unit armed with 5.56 X 45 would put a world of hurt on an opposition unit armed with .22LR.

Not only should you have ARs and 10-22s but also .308s, .45s, 9mm, 7.62 X 39 and 30-06.

 

[2aguy]

I am looking for solutions to gun violence. All sides. All sides need to be heard equally. Insulting a person is NOT a solution but part of the problem. IF you are going to post angry, do it somewhere else. If you are going to just troll, do it somewhere else. Post solutions as you see it and then let's discuss it.

Care to take that challenge?

You can't find a solution until first you define a problem to solve.

Saying you are seeking a solution to "Gun Violence" implies that all death from firearms are the same, and it really is not that simple.

It is over simplification to throw all deaths, when a gun is used into a single box, which is what I believe you want because it creates panic and paranoia. But putting that aside, lets look at the main categories of death via firearm to see what can be, or can't be accomplished in each.

1. SUICIDE: 2/3rds of all death by firearms are by suicide. A gun is not a requirement for those seeking to kill themselves. Other methods are available that many times even kill other innocents when implemented. Even Countries like Japan, South Korea and France, with strict gun control laws have suicide rates nearly as high or higher than the United States. Suicide is indeed illegal here, but a legal deterrent is not a remedy to someone who wants to kill themselves.

So how do you stop suicide?

2. GANG RELATED KILLING: The second leading cause of death that involves a firearm is gang related killings. These account for 80% of the remaining deaths. I fail to see how we can deter these by passage of a law, when the legal deterrent against murder is already life in prison to the use of the Death Penalty. Gun locks and secure safes? I don't think a gang member really cares if the law mandates these as they break laws as a way of life. Better training? Do we really want Gang members better trained?

3. DOMESTIC MURDER OR SELF DEFENSE DURING DOMESTIC ALTERCATION: These account for a relatively small number as compared to the first two categories. Again, the criminal penalty for murder is life in prison or the application of the death penalty. What possible additional legal deterrent are we to place on the abuser that is greater than these?

And in many of these killings the gun is not required to kill the weaker victim. These killings happen even in heavily gun controlled areas in the world by the use of other tools such as knife, blunt objects, poison and dozens and dozens of other method.

In this category is also those that killed in self defense, or the defense of another household member. The use of the gun by the victim of the abuse in many cases are completely justifiable, and not having the firearm would have increased the chances of the victims death.

4. THE USE OF A FIREARM BY LAW ENFORCEMENT: Typically done in defense of self or others.

5. ACCIDENTAL DEATH: Extremely rare, it averages roughly 1.5 times per day in a country of 327,000,000 people.

6. MASS SHOOTINGS: Of all the categories, this one involves the fewest deaths per year, but is the most sensational.

If I failed to include a category go ahead and make me aware of it, but I fail to see how these 6 categories can be lumped into a single box if we really want to problem solve.

/----/ All excellent points but the Gun Grabbers will ignore you and will keep banging the drum to repeal and confiscate.
View attachment 196163

True, they are more interested in creating paranoia and panic, thus votes, than to decrease the death toll. As has been demonstrated, confiscation, at best reduces the over all death count by only a few.

So I continue to ask, what is the problem we are looking to solve?

During the AR ban, the AR crime rate was drastically reduced. Right after it was allowed to run out, the school shootings came on with a "Bang" and the AR was the weapon of choice. You can't dispute that.

I don't want to ban the AR. I want to regulate them to the next level. Whether they are or are not "The Problem" the public percieves them as such. By moving them to FFL status, you still get to keep your AR but you will be required to get a FFL license. From what you say, you are already in compliance with the requirements so what's stopping you from obtaining the FFL license if it's required for you to have your ARs. The fact remains, not one single gun crime has been done by a person possessing a FFL license since the beginning of time of the FFL licensing history. Now, that's a selling point you can shout to the world and the world will believe you. But it's not always about what's real. It's oftentimes, about what is perceived. And this would be within the 2nd amendment. it's already been contested many times.

An idea worthy of exploring.

But rather than just ARs, instead afford citizens an FFL for any firearm, much like the FFL 03, except not limited to firearms over 50 years old or guns designated as C and R.

Advantages:

No more 4473s to fill out, no waiting periods, no background checks – go to your LGS, buy your gun, take it home.

And with an FFL, a citizen can buy a gun online and have it delivered to his home, no need to ship it to an FFL 01 for a transfer (and the transfer fee).

Last, the FFL would also serve as a concealed carry license valid in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, superseding all state and local concealed carry laws.

The background check would be conducted as part of the application process, the license would be valid for three years, with a $30 renewal fee.

Disadvantages:

No FFL, no guns – even if one is not otherwise a prohibited person

License holders must maintain a bound book and record all firearm transactions.

License holders must keep meticulous, comprehensive records.

Bound books and a transaction records would be subject to ATF review.

And since you pretend to understand the Constitution, you know that none of this is Constitutional....as Supreme Court rulings show....... in particular Murdock v Pennsylvania, which specifies that you cannot tax the exercise of a Right, in addition to violations of the 14th Amendment....

Keep pretending to understand and believe in the Constitution as you post what you post....

 

[mudwhistle]

I am looking for solutions to gun violence. All sides. All sides need to be heard equally. Insulting a person is NOT a solution but part of the problem. IF you are going to post angry, do it somewhere else. If you are going to just troll, do it somewhere else. Post solutions as you see it and then let's discuss it.

Care to take that challenge?

I think the first thing we need to do is get Liberals out of our education system.
That would get rid of most of the violence in schools.

 

[2aguy]

Okay, my answer to the OP, compiled at 1 am from the chicken-scratch I've been scribbling on this Post-It all day.

Executive: We need to do better enforcing the laws we have. We need to revamp the reporting system of who is ineligible and make sure it is used correctly every time, allow emergency removal of firearms with a judge's approval, penalties for attempting to buy a firearm when you are ineligible, impressively long jail sentences for domestic abusers and those using a firearm in a crime, hold owners responsible for crimes committed with their weapons, and have plenty of armed and capable SRO officers in all middle and high schools. Task the CDC with producing the quantitative study on gun violence; pay for it with a GoFundMe if need be, I bet it will fill in hours.

Legislative: Universal background checks even for private sales, and move bump stocks and large-capacity magazines behind the Class III barrier. I vacillate on a 21 year old age limit; I'm not sure about that. Mandate locks and safes for all households with both minors and firearms.

Social: Build a coalition of news outlets, media corporations, and other reporting agencies from across the spectrum to make non-reporting of a shooter's name the standard. Encourage people to watch for signs of failing mental health in their friends and family and drastically increase the number of free mental health resources available to the public.

Mental Health: Have national mandatory mental health education in every level of school, equal to physical health training, to destigmatize mental health. Provide incentives to insurance companies to provide free annual mental health checkups for all adults, equal to physical health checkups, just free.

The main thing I can't work out is how to have people show that they are of sound mind as they buy a gun. A system that requires a potential buyer to prove it is putting a condition (and presumably a dollar amount) on a Constitutionally guaranteed right, but having all psychiatrists report their dangerous patients to the Can't Buy list would be not only violating their right to due process, but exposing their medical history, which is a no-no. We need to have some level of mental safeguard, but I haven't worked out how that would work yet without any undue infringing going on.

List subject to change.

Legislative: Universal background checks even for private sales, and move bump stocks and large-capacity magazines behind the Class III barrier. I vacillate on a 21 year old age limit; I'm not sure about that. Mandate locks and safes for all households with both minors and firearms.

Universal background checks are merely called for by the anti gun leadership because they want gun registration...and the age limit is ridicules......a 20 year old woman, living on her own can't own a gun to protect herself from rape and murder? Really?

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory. For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

 

[2aguy]

This is what I have seen at a local school for a family member....

They have installed police pull stations.....they are just like the Fire pull stations but these go directly to the local police department, bypassing 911 and immediately alert the police and send them to the school......

That is a real useful item...... and sadly for you guys, it doesn't require any new gun control laws to do......