Zone1 POLL: "Where do (your) Basic Human Rights come from? Zone1

[Chuz Life]

We are all born with a survival instinct. We fear heights, spiders, etc. Is that the same as a 'right'? I don't think so.

We might all have a right to fear. Even animals. But, ok. . . not sure what that matters.

Who would look at a terrified person or animal and try to argue that the person or animal had "no right" to be fearful?

I can imagine someone claiming the fear is not reasonable. Sure.

But to claim it's not a right?

ok.

 

[ChristisKing]

Morality come from within. This is true for everyone, even non-religious people.

Don't we all have to be taught right from wrong as children?

That would be the most likely one.

Right?

Well yes as what other rights would be involved?

You start so many threads on everything else. Why don't you start one for that?

Lol I already did. That's the link to the thread that I gave you.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think the founders made it clear,,

our rights come from our creator,, you can call him god or bob I dont really care

You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain. The Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His Name in vain

 

[ChristisKing]

You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain. The Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His Name in vain

How was that taking the Lord's name in vain? I thought that it meant just using Jesus' name as a cussword.

 

[BreezeWood]

You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.

madeup by moses is monarchical as by a select few, monotheism as made in the 1st century is all are equal in the heavens. vanity is a flip of the coin.

 

[Eman623]

Don't we all have to be taught right from wrong as children?

Yes, but everyone's sense of right and wrong comes from within themselves. Your sense of morality is uniquely yours and yours alone.

Sometimes a child can be taught all about right and wrong, but still grows up as a bad egg. Another child might have hardened criminals for parents but grow up a peaceful law abiding citizen.

 

[ChristisKing]

Yes, but everyone's sense of right and wrong comes from within themselves. Your sense of morality is uniquely yours and yours alone.

Sometimes a child can be taught all about right and wrong, but still grows up as a bad egg. Another child might have hardened criminals for parents but grow up a peaceful law abiding citizen.

That doesn't have anything to do with automatically having a knowledge between right and wrong though. It's all about what kind of people they hang around with, yet those people they're learning from had to be taught at some point to. So who taught the first humans how to behave when they didn't have any government to go by?

 

[alang1216]

We might all have a right to fear. Even animals. But, ok. . . not sure what that matters.

Who would look at a terrified person or animal and try to argue that the person or animal had "no right" to be fearful?

I can imagine someone claiming the fear is not reasonable. Sure.

But to claim it's not a right?

ok.

A right tp be fearful of whatever we choose. Interesting. Does a man have a right to believe he is a woman?

 

[Chuz Life]

So, we only have the rights that a majority agrees with and believes we have? I'm asking for my friend, Dred Scott.

Not really. I believe we only truly have the rights that we as individuals have the ability to protect.

Great to know.

So, what examples or arguments do you have to support that belief?

We can group together to help the weaker elements of the alliance, but, in the end, it’s our personal ability to defend our perceived rights that matters most.

The subject of this thread has nothing to do with "what matters" or doesn't "matter most," though.

What does or doesn't matter is very subjective. What "matters" to you may not matter to anyone else at all.

Do you disagree?

Only in as much as I explained above.

Where do your rights come from?

As I explained earlier and presented my reasoning for. . . My basic human rights are inherent. I own my life. It belongs to me. a Right at it's most basic level is a "claim." I can claim my "right" to my life because, objectively, biologically, my life belongs to me. To the extent that I can, I will defend it, etc.

If you don’t have the personal power to defend them, does it even matter if you think you have them?

Academically and intellectually, for the sake of discussions like this one? YES!

Absolutely.

 

[Dekster]

Where do (your) Basic Human Rights come from?

Basic Human Rights are something that has been debated in this forum for decades.

It's obvious that we don't all agree on what basic human rights are, nor especially where basic human rights come from.

Let's vote and discuss!

Zone1 Rules Apply!

We only have rights to the extent that the government enforces them. They are inherently a legal issue and the government is the law.

 

[Chuz Life]

A right tp be fearful of whatever we choose. Interesting. Does a man have a right to believe he is a woman?

Does a man (or woman, for that matter) have the right to wrongfully believe something?

I think so.

Absolutely!

What is the alternative?

Thought police?

 

[Eman623]

That doesn't have anything to do with automatically having a knowledge between right and wrong though. It's all about what kind of people they hang around with, yet those people they're learning from had to be taught at some point to. So who taught the first humans how to behave when they didn't have any government to go by?

If you believe in evolution, you could just as easily ask where pre-humans got their sense or morality. For example, chimpanzees absolutely have their own chimp culture and chimp morality. There are all sorts of social rules among chimps involving grooming and mating. If this is not morality it is something very like it. According to chimp morality, it's absolutely moral to kill or at least chase off all members of other chimp tribes wherever you meet them. Peaceful coexistence is not a thing in chimp morality.

Of course no one knows if the first humans ascribed to chimp morality, or if they were more peaceful. But while morality is an individual thing, it changes and evolves over time. Humans don't really do cannibalism or slavery anymore. They used to be considered quite moral and even necessary. Now they are highly immoral.

I don't see where you need a government for morality to evolve. Not saying it can't play a role, but I'd say morality controls more how humans govern themselves than government controlling what is considered moral. I'd even say the same for religion. Many Jewish dietary restrictions can be justified for health reasons without bringing God into the mix.

 

[ChristisKing]

If you believe in evolution, you could just as easily ask where pre-humans got their sense or morality. For example, chimpanzees absolutely have their own chimp culture and chimp morality. There are all sorts of social rules among chimps involving grooming and mating. If this is not morality it is something very like it. According to chimp morality, it's absolutely moral to kill or at least chase off all members of other chimp tribes wherever you meet them. Peaceful coexistence is not a thing in chimp morality.

Of course no one knows if the first humans ascribed to chimp morality, or if they were more peaceful. But while morality is an individual thing, it changes and evolves over time. Humans don't really do cannibalism or slavery anymore. They used to be considered quite moral and even necessary. Now they are highly immoral.

I don't see where you need a government for morality to evolve. Not saying it can't play a role, but I'd say morality controls more how humans govern themselves than government controlling what is considered moral. I'd even say the same for religion. Many Jewish dietary restrictions can be justified for health reasons without bringing God into the mix.

At least you're admitting that chimps aren't really that moral in our eyes. However, that doesn't prove that we're related to them as you actually suggest the opposite since we don't act like chimpanzee's.... For the most part anyways.

 

[Eman623]

At least you're admitting that chimps aren't really that moral in our eyes. However, that doesn't prove that we're related to them as you actually suggest the opposite since we don't act like chimpanzee's.... For the most part anyways.

No chimps seek to be moral in our eyes. They only seek to be moral to themselves. Just like everyone else.

You can take the entire argument about evolution/creation and stick a pin in it. We share 96% of a chimp's DNA and we do act like them in some ways. We both use tools. We both form tribes. They are by far our closest living relative species. There's a lot of objectively similar behaviors there.

 

[ChristisKing]

You can take the entire argument about evolution/creation and stick a pin in it. We share 96% of a chimp's DNA

Link?

 

[Chuz Life]

We only have rights to the extent that the government enforces them. They are inherently a legal issue and the government is the law.

Authoritarian? Communist?

What view is that from?

https://x.com/i/grok/share/sjlbhEltZrt52807wbjRpvYLz

 

[Chuz Life]

Again with the derails.

Come on.

This is in Zone 1 for a reason.

 

[Leo123]

We are all born with a survival instinct. We fear heights, spiders, etc. Is that the same as a 'right'? I don't think so.

Chat Gpt says: There is a natural wariness of drop offs as they let 6-14 month old humans crawl over a glass surface that appears to drop off. Newborns have no fear of heights but when motor development happens fear comes. Spiders and snakes are phobias that may exist in the oldest part of the brain. (Not a quote just my summary)

 

[Orangecat]

As I explained earlier and presented my reasoning for. . . My basic human rights are inherent. I own my life. It belongs to me. a Right at its most basic level is a "claim." I can claim my "right" to my life because, objectively, biologically, my life belongs top me. To the extent that I can, I will defend it, etc.

It sounds to me like we basically agree.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

How was that taking the Lord's name in vain? I thought that it meant just using Jesus' name as a cussword.

you can call him god or bob I dont really care

Diminishing the true God by spelling the Name in lowercase and referring to Him as "Bob" is taking the Name in vain.

Reverence for God's name:
The commandment emphasizes having reverence for God and His name, recognizing its power and goodness.