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POLL: Political Rhetoric and the Role of Government

Does the role, scope, cost and size of government exist along a continuum?

  • 1. Yes. Most economies are mixed and the question is where along the continuum they exist.

    Votes: 12 75.0%
  • 2. No. A country is either capitalist or Socialist/Marxist/Communist, etc.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • 3. I don't want to answer. I just want to complain about the question.

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16

sparky

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lennypartiv

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Uh, yeah, America is a wonderful place to live if you are a rich white male... The rest of us, not so much. The freedoms we DO have is because of liberals, not conservatives.
You iiberals don't realize who made America great.
 

bripat9643

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Lots of talk and controversy about communism and socialism nowadays. In an attempt to clarify definitions and positions, here is a very clear and simple question that will help us understand what others think about the role of government:

Does the role, scope, cost and size of government exist along a continuum?

Simple as that. Please vote and comment.

What do you imagine the answer to that will prove?
 

bripat9643

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"Former President Donald Trump has a vendetta against Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey and is trying to woo a Republican into opposing her run for re-election, all because the former president blames Ivey for the cancellation of one of his scheduled rallies in her state this summer."


Adding Authoritarianism to the OP is an example of Trumpism and Trumpism is a far right form of government which is NOT Socialism nor Communism; it is fascism.
Good. I hope he gets her booted out of office.
 

bripat9643

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Not nearly as much as they will get out of it, no.

Let's take unemployment. You actually don't pay anything into unemployment, your employer does. But what he pays is 6.5% of the first 7K you make... or about 455 a year. You'll use that up being on unemployment for a week.

Same with Social Security... Sure, you pay into it and so does your employer, but if you retire at 65 you'll get back everything you paid in by age 72.



There's disproportionately more white people on ALL forms of welfare, you kind of miss the point of the term White People Welfare. It's not welfare white people get, it's welfare white people approve of.

Of course, the poor dumb white trash in the trailer park who collects welfare while wearing his MAGA hat and flying his Confederate Flag doesn't get it... and never will.

Most conservatives wouldn't want to live in the world they want to make, but they are horrified by the thought of the other guy getting something.

"Let's take unemployment. You actually don't pay anything into unemployment, your employer does. But what he pays is 6.5% of the first 7K you make... or about 455 a year. You'll use that up being on unemployment for a week."

The fool actually believes the employer pays this rather than taking it out of your check.

d3c0qpy-7c1ec0da-19ed-4b74-b7e5-f2c4b9968065.jpg

"
 

bripat9643

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I point that out elsewhere on this thread. Post 45.

So you earlier challenged me to post examples of my opposing the Left/Democrats. I gave you a BIG and CLEAR example.

I notice you didn't respond.

Do you want more, boy?
So what if government exists along a contuum? The closer we get to the end of the continuum that you support, the more oppressive it is.
 
OP
Mac1958

Mac1958

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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
So what if government exists along a contuum? The closer we get to the end of the continuum that you support, the more oppressive it is.
So you agree that the size, scope, influence and cost of government exists on a spectrum. Good. And going too far in either direction is not a good thing.

Now, what about the second part of my post you quoted but deleted?
 

bripat9643

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So you agree that the size, scope, influence and cost of government exists on a spectrum. Good. And going too far in either direction is not a good thing.

Now, what about the second part of my post you quoted but deleted?
No, I don't agree with the second sentence. The less government the better. No net good ever comes from government programs
 

JoeB131

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I don’t see many people trying to get out of the US but sure do see a bunch trying to get in. If it is not so great for the “rest of us” as you say, why on earth would people be coming here in droves to start at the bottom of the ladder? Why aren’t people trying to get out of this horrible, racist place? You and others are simply spoiled, envious fools who don’t have a clue how good you really have it as far as living conditions and opportunity.

Uh, let's look at where people are coming in from now... It's not Japan, or Canada or Europe... It's places like Mexico and India... you know, that's why you guys get so upset about immigration and want to build walls to keep "those people" out.

My grandparents emigrated here from Germany. You don't see a lot of people coming over here from Germany anymore. Why? The Germans have a good standard of living, they have solid social programs, their workers are largely unionized and their unions have a lot more to say about working conditions.

Well, that is pretty close to what they make now so not sure why it was brought up. I might add, that if they are making 400-600k per year there is a huge gap between them and the burger flippers. You do realize that if one person started out making 600k/yr and the other burger flipping money that the gap would be very large in short order and rightly so. What you lefties want is the burger flipper to make 75k and be taxed very little and the surgeon to make 600k but be taxed at nearly 60%

Works for me. Taxing a Surgeon at 57% means he still has 240,000 left, which is more than enough to be comfortable on.

Again, where is the equity in that and how does that incentivize anyone to put in the time to and effort to become a surgeon?

Oh, I don't know, the desire to help people? I mean, I hope that's why ANYONE becomes a Doctor. If you become a doctor because "I want to make a shitload of money", you are really doing it for the wrong reasons, but it also explains why health care is as dysfunctional as it is in this country - i.e. we spend more than anyone else but we get the worst results.

Yes, your conscience bothers you. Despite all your bravado about everything and everyone being racist, it is really your deep seeded racism for which you are trying to accommodate.
Nope, sorry... You clearly have poor reading comprehension, or you are projecting.

Like you, I am a white person, but far more successful.
Unlikely... you can put a pig in a dress, but it's still a pig.
We are all Republicans and have been for decades. Maybe we are just smarter than you?
Not by what you post here, Cleetus. I mean, if you are smart you are hiding it very well, you just come off as another inbred redneck.
Maybe the reason poor Democrats far outnumber poor Republicans is not because of Republicans but because many are are lazy, excuse laden, irresponsible and ignorant. Nah, that couldn’t be it, right? It is racism, sexism and any other “ism” you can find to blame it on.
Nope, I'm a realist. First, if elections were decided by wealth, MOST AMERICANS ARE ACTUALLY POOR. The bottom 80% control only 13% of the wealth. And the only reason they even have that is because FDR and his Democratic successors fought very hard for the rights of working people that the GOP have been chipping away at for the last 50 years.

The only thing that keeps Republicans viable is that they convince poor white people that those people are out to get them. The so-called "Reagan Democrat", who is a blue collar guy who votes for the Republicans who then turn around and try to disband the union he belongs to. But at least you aren't peeing next to a tranny!!!


According to you, Republicanism has been your biggest hinderance, which is just another sorry excuse. Oh wait, I know, it is lack of opportunity, but then again, that doesn’t work either and my family is a prime example of that. Excuses, excuses and more excuses, that is why loser Democrats will continue to be losers.
Actually, I've done fine with my career. I was very successful in supply chain and now I run my own consulting business (which includes, but is not limited to, resume writing).

If I were to pick out one hinderance, it's been I seem to encounter way too many shitty bosses. The other thing I wouldn't do if I had to do all over again was stay in the Military as long as I did. If I had gotten out in 1989 with my degree and the rank of Sergeant, I'd have done better than I would have after Bush the elder fucked up the economy and I had to blunder out of the service into a recession.

Yes, the fact that the last three Republican Presidents have brought us FOUR recessions between them is a hinderance to everyone... just some of you are in denial...

I can even say I weathered the last recession pretty well because I KNEW Trump was going to fuck things up and prepared for it. (I Just wasn't ready for HOW bad he was going to fuck it up.)
 

JoeB131

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You iiberals don't realize who made America great.
Sure we do.

It was Abe Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

It was FDR and Harry Truman and JFK and LBJ.

It was those who stood up for workers and civil rights.

We are a great country not because of the Founding Slave Owners, but because we evolved beyond them.


The fool actually believes the employer pays this rather than taking it out of your check.

I just checked my pay stub...there's not deduction for unemployment insurance... it's paid by employers, not workers.
 

g5000

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Lots of talk and controversy about communism and socialism nowadays. In an attempt to clarify definitions and positions, here is a very clear and simple question that will help us understand what others think about the role of government:

Does the role, scope, cost and size of government exist along a continuum?

Simple as that. Please vote and comment.

Yes, of course it exists along a continuum.
 

g5000

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Those who believe that government should be empowered to redistribute wealth and determine social norms are often euphemistically called socialists or communists when in fact they should be called weak, immature and irresponsible.

Government shouldn't decide how to spend and shape our lives, people in each locality should maintain that power. Most politicians have never held a meaningful job and yet we somehow believe that they are gifted to guide our every endeavor.
So I take it you are against tax deductions, exemptions, and credits? They are probably the biggest wealth distribution and social engineering programs in the government.
 

lennypartiv

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I wonder if JoeB131 realizes that Lincoln wanted to put all the blacks on boats and ship them back to Africa.
 

g5000

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I wonder if JoeB131 realizes that Lincoln wanted to put all the blacks on boats and ship them back to Africa.
That was before he was President. He repudiated his former beliefs with the Emancipation Proclamation.
 

JoeB131

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I wonder if JoeB131 realizes that Lincoln wanted to put all the blacks on boats and ship them back to Africa.

That was before he was President. He repudiated his former beliefs with the Emancipation Proclamation.

Thank you, beat me to it.

yes, recolonization was considered an option by a lot of otherwise sensible people, including some in the Freedman movement itself. It's how the nation of Liberia came to be (and look how well that turned out!)

The point is, the people who made America great were forward looking progressives, not backwards looking conservatives.
 

DBA

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Uh, let's look at where people are coming in from now... It's not Japan, or Canada or Europe... It's places like Mexico and India... you know, that's why you guys get so upset about immigration and want to build walls to keep "those people" out.

My grandparents emigrated here from Germany. You don't see a lot of people coming over here from Germany anymore. Why? The Germans have a good standard of living, they have solid social programs, their workers are largely unionized and their unions have a lot more to say about working conditions.

Why aren’t poor Americans fleeing to Europe, Japan and Canada?

Works for me. Taxing a Surgeon at 57% means he still has 240,000 left, which is more than enough to be comfortable on.

Of course it works for you, because you don’t care what happens to other people’s money. Have you noticed that the ultra wealthy like Bill Gates, Dorsey, Zuckerberg, etc. tend to be far left? They are ok with high taxes because it doesnnt affect their lifestyle. If they want to buy matching submarines, they still can. A person making 400k per year may not be able to afford the nicer home or the beach house they always dreamed of with the taxes the left is proposing. What you will not see is any of these ultra-wealthy liberals giving away or supporting a tax that would actually force them to change their way of life. That won’t happen, nor do I think it should. They support the working “rich” paying more taxes but there is a HUGE difference in lifestyle between someone making 400k/yr and someone making 100’s of millions.

Oh, I don't know, the desire to help people? I mean, I hope that's why ANYONE becomes a Doctor. If you become a doctor because "I want to make a shitload of money", you are really doing it for the wrong reasons, but it also explains why health care is as dysfunctional as it is in this country - i.e. we spend more than anyone else but we get the worst results

The surgeon example was just that, an example and again, NOBODY with money leaves the US to go get medical care elsewhere, quite the opposite. You are duped, but that is nothing new.

Nope, sorry... You clearly have poor reading comprehension, or you are projecting.

No, pretty sure that virtually every sane person on this board that is not a card carrying Socialists would agree that you have a some issues with race that go far beyond the norm.
Unlikely... you can put a pig in a dress, but it's still a pig.

I am a pig because I don’t acquiesce to your nonsense?

Not by what you post here, Cleetus. I mean, if you are smart you are hiding it very well, you just come off as another inbred redneck.

Ok, that‘s me. Just an uneducated redneck from the South. ;) You are an indoctrinated loser from the Midwest who wants rednecks like me to pick up the tab for your Pollyanna programs.

The only thing that keeps Republicans viable is that they convince poor white people that those people are out to get them. The so-called "Reagan Democrat", who is a blue collar guy who votes for the Republicans who then turn around and try to disband the union he belongs to. But at least you aren't peeing next to a tranny!!!

Have you still not figured out that wealthier white people, you know, ones that make more than you do, tend to vote for Republicans? Are those the ones that are being fooled or is it more likely that it is the working and non-working poor, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic?

can even say I weathered the last recession pretty well because I KNEW Trump was going to fuck things up and prepared for it. (I Just wasn't ready for HOW bad he was going to fuck it up.)

You knew COVID was coming? Here’s a hint genius, that is what brought Trump’s roaring economy down, along with the rest of the world. Funny enough, we haven’t suffered nearly as much as other countries economically speaking due to the relative strength of our economy pre-COVID. You are unsuccessful for a reason so I don’t expect you to understand. You are a good little soldier who follows instructions….right off a cliff if need be.
 

bripat9643

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That was before he was President. He repudiated his former beliefs with the Emancipation Proclamation.
Wrong. He was scheming to do it right up until the day he was shot.
 

bripat9643

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Thank you, beat me to it.

yes, recolonization was considered an option by a lot of otherwise sensible people, including some in the Freedman movement itself. It's how the nation of Liberia came to be (and look how well that turned out!)

The point is, the people who made America great were forward looking progressives, not backwards looking conservatives.
Hmmmm, wrong. Progressives have done nothing buy screw this country up.
 

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